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KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Good afternoon,

my association is contemplating to boot parking violators instead of towing the vehicles. I saw that there are already a few threats in regards to this topic, but I would like to get some clarification.

1) I read in one of the threats that booting vehicles has to be in the documents. But it did not specify if it has to be in the governing documents or if that can be amended in the Rules & Regulations, which can be amended by the board from time to time as seen fit.

2) If it has to be in the governing documents (Deceleration of Restrictions or similar documents) do we need 100% of the votes of the membership or only 75%?

Our association is in Broward County, Florida.

Thanks.

Cheers
Karl
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarlA1 on 03/09/2014 12:22 PM

1) I read in one of the threats that booting vehicles has to be in the documents. But it did not specify if it has to be in the governing documents or if that can be amended in the Rules & Regulations, which can be amended by the board from time to time as seen fit.

Karl,

The "documents" you speak of are the governing documents.
The governing documents include the following:

PLAT (the document that shows the boundaries of your development, properties within your development and all easements)
Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs)
Articles of Incorporation (if your Association is Incorporated - most are)
Bylaws
Resolutions (formal policies adopted by the Board: example: rules/regs, guidelines, etc.)

Resolutions (your rules & regs) may not be in conflict with the CC&Rs, Bylaws or Articles of Incorporation or any applicable law. If they are in conflict, then the Association must comply with the the higher document in the order of prcedence.

The order of predence is:

Federal Law
Federal Regulations
State Law
State Regulations
County Codes/Regs
City Ordinances
the PLAT
Declaration of Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions
Articles of Incorporation
Bylaws
Resolutions

Additionally, Resolutions may not exceed any authority outlined in your CC&Rs, Bylaws or Articles of Incorporation. For example, if the CC&Rs specify that parking violations are enforced by towing only, the Board may not utilize fines or booting to enforce parking violations as this would be exceeding the authority authorized by the CC&Rs. Using the same example, if the Board wanted to utilize fines and/or booting, they would have to amend the CC&Rs to give them that authority. Once the authority is in the CC&Rs, the Board can adopt a resolution that specifies when vehicles would be fined, booted or towed for parking violations.

Quote:
Posted By KarlA1 on 03/09/2014 12:22 PM

2) If it has to be in the governing documents (Deceleration of Restrictions or similar documents) do we need 100% of the votes of the membership or only 75%?

Each Document should specify how that document may be amended. If the document is silent, then applicable State law might specify how the document may be amended.

Even if your governing documents allow for towing and/or booting, the Association must also comply with any County regulations regarding towing or booting. These requirements typically specify certain signage (font, placement, language) and may even include specific prior notice (24-36 hours) before the vehicle can be towed or booted.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Karl:

I would like more information please.

1. Are you Condo complex or single family HOA?

2. Does the HOA own the property in question where the vehicles are parked or is it public streets?

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Karl these are excellent questions to pose the the HOA's attorney along with whether or not a non-profit corporation can use "booting" in your jurisdiction and exactly what signs are required.

If you do this I would suggest a private towing service place and remove the boot, unless you and your fellow Board members want to have someone banging on your door at 3am demanding the boot be removed.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Booting and/or towing open up a real Pandora's box. It can get legally messy, real quick. My advise is try and stay away from it.
GreggT (Florida)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/10/2014 5:24 AM
Booting and/or towing open up a real Pandora's box. It can get legally messy, real quick. My advise is try and stay away from it.

I think it has to do with the specific situation, how it is handled, and what specifically the Docs have to say. I would advise against booting just because of the situation already mentioned, towing directs the rage outside the complex. We tow parking violators and have now for several years. Just the mere fact that people know we do this minimizes the issues.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
We, like Gregg's HOA also two--perhaps two vehicles per year. It's spelled out in our docs and we completely comply with the laws here re: signage, etc.

We have no problems. I'm not sure why boots would be preferable to towing??
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
I am not a big fan for either towing or booting as the core problem is usually inadequate parking.

That said, one of the differences between towing and booting is that if a car has been parked in such a way as to cause a problem, towing resolves the issue by removing the troublesome vehicle while booting allows the vehicle to remain in place and continue to cause a problem until the boot is removed.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
In our association we would never consider booting. We do tow vehicles, some for municipal infractions, fire hydrants, red zones. We will tow if you are seriously delinquent and park on the street, which is common area, which your dues, if you chose to pay, help maintain.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/10/2014 11:36 AM
In our association we would never consider booting. We do tow vehicles, some for municipal infractions, fire hydrants, red zones. We will tow if you are seriously delinquent and park on the street, which is common area, which your dues, if you chose to pay, help maintain.

I am not so sure about the wisdom of towing an otherwise lawfully parked car because the owner is delinquent. Towing just adds to the owner's financial woes and forces him to spend the very money who claim is owed to you on getting his car back from the towing company. Only the towing operator wins under this scenario. Booting in this case may be appropriate as you could require payment of past due assessments as a condition of removing the boot.

GreggT (Florida)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/10/2014 11:36 AM
In our association we would never consider booting. We do tow vehicles, some for municipal infractions, fire hydrants, red zones. We will tow if you are seriously delinquent and park on the street, which is common area, which your dues, if you chose to pay, help maintain.

Just a note, in Florida you do not have the right to limit the use of common areas such as access to parking for being delinquent in dues because you are restricting access to their unit. We checked with our legal firm on this exact issue.
In our condo complex we have limited parking and we issue parking passes to insure everyone has at least one parking place in our deck as spelled out in our Doc's. Those in violation are ticketed then towed.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Carol

That might be so in Florida, but I have had vehicles towed in associations with limited parking if they didn't have a parking permit due to the owner being delinquent. They have access to their driveways and their garages, just can't parking on the streets.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Gregg, I think Richard is talking about common area parking where lack of use would not deprive the owner of access to her/his home. We have such scarce Visitor Parking common areas--just 16 spaces for 200+ units' visitors. Owners are not allowed to park in them. If they do, we certainly can and do have their vehicles towed. It's rare, though.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Thanks Tim ... The Sun Sentinel investigation has some really good info. The ordinance does in the beginning address the issue of "private property".
KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
First I want to thank everybody who contributed to this discussion.
I also want to apologize for my extended absence from this thread. Unfortunately shortly after I posted my questions, my father-in-law passed away and as you my understand I was 100% occupied with attending to my wife and her family and my own grieve over the loss of a man who was like a father to me.

So thank you for accepting my apologies.

Now in response to some of your posts.

JanetB2: We are a townhouse community with attached single family homes governed by FL Statues Chapter 720 (HOA) - not a condo. - Thanks.

TimB4: As far as I can see in our docs, none of them contain a section which describes how the document can be amendment, so I guess we would have to look up the FL Statutes. - Thanks

GreggT: I appreciate you sharing your experiences in your community. It brought up some issues I never thought about such as moving the issue with upset homeowners of the property. Great point. - Thanks

And thanks to all the others as well.

Cheers
Karl
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Karl,

My sympathies for your loss.

Quote:
Posted By KarlA1 on 04/06/2014 6:22 PM

TimB4: As far as I can see in our docs, none of them contain a section which describes how the document can be amendment, so I guess we would have to look up the FL Statutes. - Thanks

Per FL 720.306:

"Unless otherwise provided in the governing documents or required by law, and other than those matters set forth in paragraph (c), any governing document of an association may be amended by the affirmative vote of two-thirds of the voting interests of the association. Within 30 days after recording an amendment to the governing documents, the association shall provide copies of the amendment to the members."
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Karl:

So sorry for your family loss.

Tim posted above the State Statute for amending your documents when the documents are silent on the issue.

My second question still is unanswered and which can make a difference on response:

2. Does the HOA own the property in question where the vehicles are parked or is it public streets?

KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Janet, the HOA owns the common grounds, but of course not the parcels on which the units are. The homeonwers own their land around their house, but the parking lot for example, the pool or the clubhouse are owned by the association.


Cheers
Karl
KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Thank you Tim


Cheers
Karl

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