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Resident an attorney, happily thumbs nose at HOA rules

Started by TaniaV • 42 replies • 3476 views

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TaniaV (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Greetings,

Without hashing all the details, we have one resident in a working-class 12 home HOA that is not only an attorney, he's a cantankerous sort of guy. He has decided to do whatever he wishes on his property, including letting it fall into dis-repair, unmowed lawn/weeds (chest high - the City finally got involved on that one & all the trash on his property), half finished projects like treehouses, pergolas, 3 different decks in various stages, etc that have crumbled over the past few years. He has a giant oak that looks an aborist said could fall any day now.

The Board has sent him several letters on all these matters, tried the carrot and the stick, but he doesn't care. If we start in with him legally he said he will happily counter-sue the board on many different fronts, every misplaced comma in the by-laws and so forth, since all that will cost him is a little bit of time but will cost us tens of thousands. Everyone is scared of him. All of us are pretty new at this, in completely over our heads, and just volunteered to be on the Board out of good intentions, but he is his own full time job. Is all hope lost?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
If we start in with him legally he said he will happily counter-sue the board on many different fronts, every misplaced comma in the by-laws and so forth, since all that will cost him is a little bit of time but will cost us tens of thousands.


get that on tape and then have him disbarred
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That is because he knows your going about it all wrong. Lawsuit not the way to go. A lien is.
Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sorry to finish up. suing is not going to work and he knows it. Put a lien on the property after you all put it in compliance. Lien for the amount that cost. That you all can do versus fines and lawsuits.
Former HOA President
TaniaV (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for the reply - a lien has been threatened as well initially. He pointed out all the different ways he would not only sue, but also not have the lien stand up.

I suppose the ultimate question is with our limited ability to raise assessments, how an HOA this small can fund a battle with someone who has free ammo, and at what point do you throw in the towel? (I suppose it's pretty easy to determine how exhausted we all are from years of this.)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tania

It is time for the association to lawyer up at least being sure a lien can be filed and if so, then doing so. In some states liens cannot be filed for fines, only for unpaid dues.

Secondly check your docs. There might be a way for the HOA to go in and clean the property up and bill the owner for it. If this was to happen I suggest do it when he is not home. Also if he threatens to sue because you did so, then tell him to bring it on.

One way or another you are going to have to confront this guy or continue to accept his bullying. So far, his bullying has worked. You all are running scared.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
I am not familiar with Georgia HOA rules, but liens be placed on properties because of fines or violations. I know they can for not paying assessments.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
#1 stop with the false threats of liens or lawsuits. It's just baiting material for conflict. Instead look at your documents to see what your HOA can do. It may say the HOA can levy fines. However, it doesn't usually DEFINE the fines nor amount. That is why a "Fining Schedule" has to be established and acknowledged by ALL the owners. It will define what is considered a violation worthy of a fine and how much to the max amount. This will give the HOA much more power to enforce fines versus not having anything in place.

Liens can be filed for 2 things. #1 is for UNPAID Dues. The lien would include the amount owed, interest, late fees, and legal fees it cost for the lien. This is typical and what most HOA's do. This is the first step towards foreclosure. One can't sell their home until it is settled and it accumulates. A lawsuit doesn't accumulate and may need multiple trips to court.

#2. The other unconventional way to file a lien is for cases where the person does NOT fix their violation. Let's say they paint their house the wrong color. They refuse to repaint it. The HOA can pay a contractor to repaint the house and send the owner the bill. That bill if NOT paid, then the HOA can place a lien for that money owed. This can't be used as the basis of a foreclosure nor can fines. It has to be unpaid dues. Some HOA's do get a bit fancy with the books by applying the dues paid to the fines so that it looks like dues have not been paid. That's how some HOA's can file liens for what is perceived as "fines".

Some people have an issue with "trespassing" to correct issues. It really depends on how your HOA is set up. If it's common property and/or the HOA controls the outside appearance, then it's not trespassing. If it's individual homes, then check into the law about this. The HOA can do this only if they stand up for it and do the research.

Don't be afraid because this guy is a lawyer. Instead consult one yourselves and start asking the questions. Review your documents and see what options you do have. Otherwise, he's just playing on your ignorance. Which doesn't have to be if you stay informed.
Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/06/2014 2:10 PM
#1 stop with the false threats of liens or lawsuits. It's just baiting material for conflict. Instead look at your documents to see what your HOA can do. It may say the HOA can levy fines. However, it doesn't usually DEFINE the fines nor amount. That is why a "Fining Schedule" has to be established and acknowledged by ALL the owners. It will define what is considered a violation worthy of a fine and how much to the max amount. This will give the HOA much more power to enforce fines versus not having anything in place.

Liens can be filed for 2 things. #1 is for UNPAID Dues. The lien would include the amount owed, interest, late fees, and legal fees it cost for the lien. This is typical and what most HOA's do. This is the first step towards foreclosure. One can't sell their home until it is settled and it accumulates. A lawsuit doesn't accumulate and may need multiple trips to court.

#2. The other unconventional way to file a lien is for cases where the person does NOT fix their violation. Let's say they paint their house the wrong color. They refuse to repaint it. The HOA can pay a contractor to repaint the house and send the owner the bill. That bill if NOT paid, then the HOA can place a lien for that money owed. This can't be used as the basis of a foreclosure nor can fines. It has to be unpaid dues. Some HOA's do get a bit fancy with the books by applying the dues paid to the fines so that it looks like dues have not been paid. That's how some HOA's can file liens for what is perceived as "fines".

Some people have an issue with "trespassing" to correct issues. It really depends on how your HOA is set up. If it's common property and/or the HOA controls the outside appearance, then it's not trespassing. If it's individual homes, then check into the law about this. The HOA can do this only if they stand up for it and do the research.

Don't be afraid because this guy is a lawyer. Instead consult one yourselves and start asking the questions. Review your documents and see what options you do have. Otherwise, he's just playing on your ignorance. Which doesn't have to be if you stay informed.

.????
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Tania, first of all tell us if you have the procedures for levying fines in wiring in your HOA. If so, have you folioed them? You've only mentioned "letters."

When the city got involved, did the violator clean up his yard? As JohnC suggests, do your documents allow your HOA to clean up & haul and then bill him?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TaniaV on 03/06/2014 10:34 AM

he's a cantankerous sort of guy.

I believe that all Associations have some version of this individual within their Association.

Quote:
Posted By TaniaV on 03/06/2014 10:34 AM

Is all hope lost?

No.

It simply means that the Association better be prepared for a challenge to any enforcement proceedings that they do. Being prepared means following the governing documents and all applicable laws to the letter (which is always a good idea anyway). This way, if challenged, the Association will have all the proper documentation. The Association should also make sure that any enforcement process to bring a violation into compliance on that one property is also being used on all similar violations in the Association. Otherwise, the Association will be providing the individual with a selective enforcement argument.

As others have said, it may be time to

1) have an attorney review your Assocaitions enforcement policy to make sure that they are in compliance with applicable laws and

2) line up an attorney for potential legal challenges to the Associations enforcement action.

OR - the association could simply do nothing and deal with the potential selective enforcement argument and legal challenge from other members in the Association.
JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
"Some people have an issue with "trespassing" to correct issues. It really depends on how your HOA is set up. If it's common property and/or the HOA controls the outside appearance, then it's not trespassing."

My HOA controls the outside appearance of my [single family, detached] home via the ARC. I can assure you unautorized or unsolicited or un-welcome activity on my property would certainly be trespassing.

Relying on corporate documents to authorize what is considered criminal activity is foolish especially after 1986.

http://www.hindmansanchez.com/resources/article/homeowner-suits-against-community-associations

"Homeowners have the right to exclusive possession of their unit as well as to certain limited common elements appurtenant thereto. Homeowners can maintain an action against their community association for unauthorized entry onto the owner's premises or limited common elements. An action in trespass appears to lie for entry without permission to any areas in actual or constructive possession of a unit owner. In Plotkin v. Club Valencia Condominium Association, 717 P.2d 1027 (Colo. App. 1986), the community association entered a unit and relocated a storage locker on the balcony of the unit. The balcony was defined as a "limited common element" by the condominium declaration and was restricted to the exclusive use of the unit owner. The owner objected to the relocation of the storage locker because the relocated locker blocked the panoramic view from the balcony. The owner succeeded in their action against their community association on the basis the association entered the unit without invitation or permission."
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/06/2014 12:20 PM
That is because he knows your going about it all wrong. Lawsuit not the way to go. A lien is.

Melissa,

Depending on the wording in the governing documents, legal action might be the only option for enforcement.

Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/06/2014 12:20 PM

Put a lien on the property after you all put it in compliance. Lien for the amount that cost.

Additionally, based on the advice from our attorney, even though our own governing documents gives the Association the right to enter the property, perform the work and assess the member for the cost of repairs, we were told that this could be legally determined to be trespassing. It was further recommended that the Association only consider such action when the issue is threatening the safety of others and that we would be hard pressed to find a contractor willing to trespass on someones property without a court order or permission from the owner of the property.

State laws vary. Therefore, I would suggest that anyone considering Melissa's advice and having the Association correct the issue and bill the member for the cost to consult with their local attorney first.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Tania,

Have your attorney file for an injunction to force the jackass into maintaining his property. Let him rant and rave his butt off in front of a judge. The more he fights the more likely it is that your association will be awarded every last cent of its costs. (One factor in awarding legal fees is whether the litigation was really necessary. This guy will prove that every time he opens his mouth.) My experience has been that most judges have a short fuse when they encounter an attorney who wants to argue over everything.

Remember the old adage: "The attorney who represents himself has a fool for a client."

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
I have in the past read some court cases and opinions upholding the HOA 'right' to trespass but there were many circumstances to consider such as harm caused by the act, prior notification of the act, etc.

I'm fairly sure the proponents of trespassing here have not personally tested thier advice making it tantamount to hypocracy.

BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Hmm 12 homes in a working class neighborhood. I know from experience how expensive legal fees are and they pile up very fast. I would let it go. Let the County go after him for the tall grass and the junk. I would not recommend going onto the guys property at all. You are just asking for more trouble. If he's paying his assessments IMO not worth the stress and expense. You can always hope that he will move. Is he old and you know no one lives forever.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Like I stated before EACH HOA is DIFFERENT and each state/local laws are different. It may or may NOT be considered "trespassing" due to the way your HOA may be set up. In our case, it was NOT considered trespassing. That is because you own the home and the lot the house sits on. Everything outside of that is considered "COMMON AREA" maintained by the HOA.

This setup allowed us to keep up our one responsibility which was lawn care. Otherwise each time our lawn care mowed the lawns, it could be considered "Trespassing". We did allow back yards to be kept more privately and mowed per permission. Had to keep your gate unlocked if the backyard was to be mowed. Any member could walk across yards as well. We did not allow for fences to be installed in the front yard. Keep in mind our HOA had 107 homes on about 1/2 mile half circle of land. Wasn't a lot of yard to deal with. The length of a car mostly for the front yards. Just to give some proportion.

We did one year remove trees or trimmed them. Which meant we did have to enter member's property to do so. These trees were originally planted by the developer and NOT the owners. 20 year old over grown Bradford Pear trees turn very dangerous. So yes we were successful in entering property and doing work without being "trespassers".

Again that is up to your HOA to decide and consult a lawyer on. I do NOT say every state allows this. Often than not there is little power behind a posted "no trespassing" sign as you think. It's important to get legal advice before proceeding if your that unfamiliar with the legal powers your HOA may or may not have.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PeterD3 on 03/06/2014 4:44 PM

I'm fairly sure the proponents of trespassing here have not personally tested thier advice making it tantamount to hypocracy.

Our Association was actually called on it when our ACC contractor physically entered the property to do the annual inspection. This is what prompted us to seek a legal opinion on the whole issue (not just for inspections but also for repairs). Bottom line for the ACC contractor, the advice was that they were actually trespassing. Annual inspections are now done as viewed from the common areas.

Now, we are also an HOA not a COA. I suspect that those in in COA's have a little more leeway as a minor issue (such as a simple water leak) can cause major issues for the common elements and other units.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/06/2014 6:44 PM

Like I stated before EACH HOA is DIFFERENT and each state/local laws are different.

Melissa,

Although you have indeed mentioned that fact on other threads, in this thread you have not. Failing to mention that your advice might not be fully applicable (due to language in governing documents and/or applicable laws) to the issue being discussed when you post a reply (especially when the OP is a new poster) can make your posting sound as if your advice is a matter of fact for their Association. I know that this is not your intention (as you have previously posted that you try to give general information, which is often very helpful) but, intended or not, it is the way some of your posts are perceived.

I know that this is why I responded the way I did to sections of your postings.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I agree with you, Tim. I worry when new posters see someone with as many posts as Melissa has and believe her to be knowledgeable. Similarly, there are many -- including new readers-- who read posts and never respond, and I worry about their perceptions too.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BanksS on 03/06/2014 5:43 PM
Hmm 12 homes in a working class neighborhood. I know from experience how expensive legal fees are and they pile up very fast.

Yes, this is something to consider. If he follows through on his threat to counter-sue, the association's insurance may pick up part of the tab.

Keep in mind that discovery is the most expensive part of going to court. By keeping the issues simple and the witnesses to a minimum, the association can avoid a lot of discovery. If this guy wants to start a massive counter-litigation he will be the one who has to hire the process servers to serve the subpoenas, he is the one who will have to pay for the court reporter to take depositions, and he will be the one who has to pay for the transcripts. He may have done this a million times before but this time the money will be coming out of his own pocket and not from a client's retainer. It won't be long before he blinks.

BTW, attorneys in general do not have a whole lot of sympathy for one who uses his position to bully others. Attorneys are already despised and a bully makes them all look even worse. It may be that the cause of all the neglect on the property is that this attorney is not making much money. If he intimidates his neighbors he may also intimidate potential clients right out the door. This guy just does not sound like a terribly successful attorney.

JayP3 (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:

"I worry when new posters see someone with as many posts as Melissa has and believe her to be knowledgeable."

Well said.

She critiques others for being to specific while her verbose generalized postings offer very little useable information when averaged against their length.

TaniaV (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you all for sharing your insights and experiences. I truly appreciate it (and we will indeed proceed with caution and due diligence).
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
In South Carolina, under the present "Stand your ground" law I would shoot a trespasser dead in his/her tracks if he/she did not IMMEDIATELY back off and RUN.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/07/2014 4:21 PM
In South Carolina, under the present "Stand your ground" law I would shoot a trespasser dead in his/her tracks if he/she did not IMMEDIATELY back off and RUN.

Mr. Macho!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/07/2014 4:21 PM
In South Carolina, under the present "Stand your ground" law I would shoot a trespasser dead in his/her tracks if he/she did not IMMEDIATELY back off and RUN.

I recall some old geezer in Texas a few years back who saw a whole bunch of strangers running across his farm so he started shooting at them. Turned out the strangers were mostly FBI and Texas Rangers chasing a couple of fugitives.

Since there are many people who may lawfully enter your property (meter readers, surveyors, process servers, police officers, firefighters, dog catchers, and utility workers, for example), shooting first is a good way to spend the rest of your life behind bars.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Again EACH HOA is different and if you don't understand that when reading ANY advice here, then I can't help that. I can only post from what I know or know to understand. What YOU do or do not is not up to me. With that said...

Again, it may or may not be considered "trespassing" in every case of work being done by the HOA. Is it trespassing when the condo units are treated for pests? If the condo's are ALL in one building and it's part of what the COA is to provide? No. It is a responsibility the dues are agreed to be used for. What then do you do when you have that person who refuses to let pest control in because they don't like "chemicals" in their home? Your their next door neighbor and you seen roaches coming between your two walls? It's going to be demanded by you and the COA to treat that condo. Is that then trespassing or the unit owner not living up to the contract?

I agree if the homes are on separate lots and the dues are being paid for amenities/lawncare/roads/maintenance it is trespassing if the HOA tries to come onto the property or anyone else. If that then is the case for your HOA, then the HOA may need to go to court to get an injunction or legal permission to enter the property to make the changes. This cost may be then added onto the overall cost in the lien/money owed. This may also force the HOA to do a lawsuit. Which may be the only option to pursue. However, if the HOA was to win, it would still be a judgment similar to a lien as a lien is also a court judgment. The only difference being that a lien one can't sell and it accumulates over time. A lawsuit judgment the person can sell and it is ONLY for the amount of the court award. So choose the best option that the HOA would like best to pursue. Wait over time or get a result and hope to collect before they leave.
Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I am not nor do I play a lawyer.

I believe the HOA could get a court order ordering the owner to bring the property into HOA compliance.

I also believe the HOA could get a court order allowing the HOA to hire someone to bring the property into compliance and all expenses billed to the owner.

I also believe if the property in in as much disrepair as the OP said then the HOA should contact the local governing agency. Zoning, Board of Health, etc.

Bottom line is this owner is bullying the HOA and so far, they are running scared. Unless they take a proactive stance, nothing will change.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
NO ONE (except a business relation who has express/implied consent and/or has a RECORDED easement such as a utility) MAY PASS A NO TRESSPASSING SIGN W/O A PROPERLY ISSUED WARRANT

EVEN THEN THEY MUST CALL OUT:

"POLICE ~ WARRANT" or the equivalent

The officers you mention in hot pursuit were IN UNIFORM and properly 'IDed'

My home actually IS my castle (my HOA Covenants do, however, govern) which I choose to defend to the death.

If you don't like the law, move somewhere to your liking.

Having said the above, if I tell someone to leave my property, and they refuse, then by virtue of their WILFULL trespass, I am entitled to 'stand my ground'.

One really should not blaze away at random, but, one may be entitled to blaze away.

ps. this is why it is virtually impossible to lease a car in some jurisdictions - repossession may be very very difficult
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I agree with you JohnC 100%. Plus you made what I've been trying to say better to understand. Just because this guy is a lawyer doesn't make him a good one or one that is above the law. Apparently he's already been proven to not be on his prior dealings with the city. Just because someone says they aren't going to do what the HOA tells them to doesn't mean the HOA can't make them eat their vegetables.

Why worry about a countersuit anyways? It's even better if the HOA counter-sued against the lawyer. However, knowing the lawyer knows this information, he's waiting on being sued to file a counter suit. He's basically baiting the HOA to sue him but he would NEVER sue the HOA. A counter-suit doesn't cost as much money to file and it can be for anything. It doesn't have to be for the thing the HOA is suing for. It's why it's called a "counter suit". You sue me for this reason I will COUNTER back at you for this reason... He's playing games with you all because he knows he can and you all don't know better to get your acts together. Not everyone is going to agree on how to handle the situation so the situation will continue.

BTW the lawyer knows "Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors". He's not going to waste his time or money doing so unless it's so grievance what the HOA does, that he would sue. So if that is the "fear" your all living with. Don't. Your HOA should have liability insurance and it has a payout for such claims.

Again it's grasping the reality and not the fantasy. The fantasy is that this guy is a lawyer and will sue the pants off you. It's also that it's going to cost thousands of dollars to do any legal action. Reality: He's a lawyer and he's got to follow the law like everyone else. It's NOT going to cost as much as you think if you make a few phone calls and do some research. Plus a lien or lawsuit judgment is to grant back any out of pocket costs incurred in this pursuit. A court can ONLY make one WHOLE not a profit.

I may have revealed a few of my "secrets" of how to deal with lawyers and threats of lawsuits... I look at the reality and not fantasy. Have no fear and keep reality in your back pocket.
Former HOA President
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Hello. I'm sorry my first post seems as if I am calling someone out (please don't take it personal John) and really doesn't have anything to do with OP's question.

JohnB26 said:

"Having said the above, if I tell someone to leave my property, and they refuse, then by virtue of their WILFULL trespass, I am entitled to 'stand my ground'.
One really should not blaze away at random, but, one may be entitled to blaze away."

You can't "stand your ground" just because someone is trespassing.

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c011.php

See SECTION 16-11-440

Mike
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
One may use whatever force is necessary to remove the trespasser.

One would begin by attempting to push them off one's property.

Should this result in a 'fist fight' and one should be there upon in fear for their life ....................

Since one was 'standing their ground' upon their property ~ show me the jury that would convict.

Florida just recently had a similar case ............... not even 'fee simple' property.

Larry:

(A) It is the intent of the General Assembly to codify the common law Castle Doctrine which recognizes that a person's home is his castle and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person's place of business.

(B) The General Assembly finds that it is proper for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves, their families, and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others.


soooo..................after the trespasser is ordered to leave and refuses...............
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Larry;

sorry, meant to address Mike
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Sorry John, read all of Article 6, not just the beginning, including definitions.

Your original post had nothing on pushing leading to fist fights leading to..........

You said trespassing. Don't add circumstances to the post I was replying to.

I don't want to make this personal and I don't want a peeing match. We just don't need to feed the antigun groups.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeL13 on 03/08/2014 8:42 AM

You can't "stand your ground" just because someone is trespassing.

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c011.php

See SECTION 16-11-440

Yep.

Merely being in your yard is not grounds for invoking the "stand your ground" rule. They gotta be forcibly making entry into the home before it is legal to shoot.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
refusing to leave after being 'pushed' IS forcible attempted entry

let us stop pissing

no offence taken at all - it is good to debate
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
y'all need to see my FIRST response:

Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/06/2014 11:15 AM
If we start in with him legally he said he will happily counter-sue the board on many different fronts, every misplaced comma in the by-laws and so forth, since all that will cost him is a little bit of time but will cost us tens of thousands.


get that on tape and then have him disbarred

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Find out which other very knowledgeable attorney in town hates his guts ... that one might even give you a good deal for the pleasure of going after him. If he has that big of an ego he probably has enemies.

I agree with Melissa in that it does not matter if he is an attorney ... he still has to follow the rules. There is no need to be afraid of those not following the rules and on the wrong side of an issue.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
ps. there is an amendment to the South Carolina 'stand your ground' law presently being contemplated by the legislature to prevent what I proposed, as the existing 'preamble' negates the details which follow
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
the City finally got involved on that one .....


If you dont want to spend any money, the city is your answer. Keep complaining to the city and get them more involved. The city has much deeper pockets and has the resources and time to fight this guy.

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