How can I get out of an HOA when they don't object

I am in an HOA and 5 of us want out. The rest of the HOA says we can leave the HOA if those of us that want out pay the expense.
So then I talked to a lawyer who said I would need to contact the county and ask to be removed from the subdivision. That would entail hiring a surveyor.
Then I called the county and they said being in a subdivision doesn't mean I must be in the HOA. I could be in the subdivision but not in the HOA.
Now I'm starting to wonder if this may be easier than we thought. I know I need at least 2 things:
1. I need most of the HOA to agree to let us leave. This shouldn't be a problem but I am not sure exactly how many HOA members need to approve. I heard I need the majority (over 50%), the lawyer said over 67%, another source said 80%
2. Documents such as the CC&R would have to be rewritten to say our homes are no longer part of the HOA.

Does anyone have some information on how I can get out of this HOA?

Thanks for your advice.

as a matter of practical necessity:

you want out - sell and move along

it will be far far cheaper

I would also like to add that I wish you luck.
However, I personally doubt you will be able to achieve what you are looking for. If you are able to achieve it, it may likely become very expensive. This is why John had suggested that the easier thing would be sell and purchase property that isn't part of an Association.

If I may ask, what is the underlying reason you want out of the Association?

Why do you guys say this? I can imagine giving up and moving if everyone in the HOA was apposed to us leaving but they support us. I think that's half the battle.

I really think of those in the HOA as a separate neighborhood from those of us that want to leave. Sure my property touches theirs but I need to climb a wooded hill to reach their property. Their roads are separate from ours and I think that's why they are not apposed to us leaving.

> The rest of the HOA says we can leave

If you really have "everybody" on board then you're golden. But it's unlikely that will be the case when it comes down to voting. It's tough to even get- 2/3 or 80% or whatever- to vote for innocuous updating, let alone a significant change. When it comes down to voting some will either not vote or will vote no because they just aren't sure.

No one else has mentioned the need to inform and get approval of banks that hold mortgages.

Here is a link for CO Statutes: http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/

You will click Title 38, then click “Real Property” to expand the options. CCIOA is under Article 33.3. Part 2 will contain most of information you may need. Here are examples to show you what you are looking at:

38-33.3-209. Plats and maps … describes that they are part of the Declaration and would be why they would require amending.

38-33.3-218. Termination of common interest community

(1.5) No planned community that is required to exist pursuant to a development or site plan shall be terminated by agreement of unit owners, unless a copy of the termination agreement is sent by certified mail or hand delivered to the governing body of every municipality in which a portion of the planned community is situated or, if the planned community is situated in an unincorporated area, to the board of county commissioners for every county in which a portion of the planned community is situated.

Even though you are not terminating the entire HOA you most likely will have to follow what the statute states above and this is to insure that the County has notice and can insure any regulations are properly followed.

I would also strongly recommend that you get permission from your Mortgage Lender to pursue this option. Keep in mind your Lender has your property attached to a Security Agreement and you want to be very careful that you do not affect your lenders rights and value of their collateral. Your lender will have rights under other laws outside of CCIOA and your governing documents.

Dave:

From the exchange here I have a few questions.

How many units make up your HOA?

How long have you lived there?

How did you determine the rest of the HOA members don't have a problem with you leaving the HOA? Who exactly spoke for the remaining HOA members?

Just what are your common charges now? And besides the road maintanance you mentioned does the HOA maintain or provide any other services?

I have to wonder why the lawyer you spoke to couldn't give you a definite answer as to what percentage of property owners would be needed to approve this? And does that percentage agree with what the HOA would require? Have you spoken to anyone serving on the Board? And their position was????

I'm sorry but I can see many complications to this effort. Just who would cover the cost of these votes? Who pays for the time to send out and collect the votes? And if unsuccessful? Who covers the legal fees to represent the HOA? Should the HOA members pay to work for your leaving the HOA? To revise the CCRs if and when your leaving occurs who covers that cost? And as mentioned what affect would this have on YOUR insurance and mortgages along with those remaining in the HOA?

Sounds to me like you would need to gather some more information before deciding this is the way to go.

I have not heard of an occasion when this sort of division from an HOA has taken place.

Section 38-33.3-217 addresses amendments to the declaration. Section 38-33.3-218 would not apply in this situation as the community is not terminating. Section 38-33.3-209, regarding plats, would also not apply as that is a requirement for establishing a new community; 38-33.3-217 contains no requirement to alter any plats when amending the declaration.

Section 38-33.3-217 does not require obtaining lender approval unless the declaration requires it. Do not complicate matters by seeking approval from those whose approval is not required.

Section 38-33.3-217 caps the percentage of owners that must approve an amendment at 67% and permits the declaration to set the percentage as low as "more than fifty percent."

Larry:

You are from AZ and I am from CO. The Plats and Maps define the boundaries of an association and Section 38-33.3-209 is not just for creating the association it is referenced by other sections of CCIOA such as when a developer might be exercising a reserved declarant right needing to change the Plats and Maps. In my community to change the Plat would require approval from the local government entity and I know that because I sit on the Commission for my local area which reviews these changes. So under the above referenced statute I suggest you missed reading (8) of that section and miss-read (1) because I do not see where it states it only applies for “establishing a new community”.

While Section 38-33.3-217 might not require obtaining lender approval from personal experiences I recommended DaveN1 cover their tail end and get approval in writing from the creditor. A creditor lending lots of money based upon a document attached to the property title should not be defrauded and their collateral rendered less valuable, especially if done behind their back. I am not an attorney and only say that from personal experience with my own HOA war which may include violations under (38-10-117. Conveyances to defraud creditors void) and (18-5-206. Defrauding a secured creditor or debtor violations). Because Title 18 is a criminal statute, if I were you I would not tell someone from CO not to complicate matters by seeking approval from those whose approval is not required, because that might not be true and you might get them in trouble if they followed that advice.

DaveN1:

JonD1 has some great questions because you need to consider that the owners wanting to de-annex from the association may also need to pay for the Association attorney along with your own attorney for this process. You initially stated … “others OK as long as those who want to leave pay the expense”. If it was my association I would want our own attorney separate from your attorney to review any documents.

Before you expend a lot of time and money I suggest you call your local government authorities and ask to be placed on a meeting agenda to discuss your proposal. If they are opposed their attorney can give you any statute information to review, then you will save lots of personal time and money if it may not be an option. As JohnC46 stated "get your ducks in a row". Use other local resources available to save time and money before jumping off the cliff.

DaveN1:

Again, call the County and ask to be on agenda to speak at one of the next upcoming County Commission Meetings. This will be where you will find out alot of information regarding what you want to pursue.

Out of curiosity which county are you located?

Different County than one I live in. If had been my county I know some of the Commissioners. Know of the La Plata area because before we moved to CO we lived in Farmington, NM which is 45 mi from Durango across the state border.

LarryB13:

A Plat does describe real estate … and a Common Interest Community consists of Real Estate.

The discussion is not just about amending the Declaration it is primarily about some of the Common Interest Community (which is part of the current Plat) de-annexing from said association. This in turn WILL change the description of Real Estate as it will decrease the number of “units” contained within that description and all documents associated, whether it is the Plat, Maps, Declaration, etc. and which all will need to be changed to reflect the difference. Because it is NOT just the Declaration changing there are other Statutes involved beyond the 38-33.3-217 you keep referencing.

I agree banks are pretty good at covering their butts … because they have individuals who lobby for their BS with the Federal Government. After all if they have a loan insured via FHA, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc., then who cares what happens … because everyone on this site and all other citizens in our country get to pay for those who violate their rights and defraud their loans via their Income Taxes paid for the insurance bailouts. However, it was not the banks butt I was trying to cover … so not sure what point you are trying to make.



No association??? So what are you doing out here on a Community Association website?

LarryB13:

I think you do not fully understand the potential issue. If my association wanted to change the Declaration for something such as “All dogs must be on a leash” then I could give my consent and there would be NO issue with regards to my Lender because the value of the property (a.k.a. collateral) is not affected.

However, if my association wanted to for example reduce the “Construction Guidelines” which would affect the value and marketability of my property, I would have to be careful what I agree to amending. Most all Security Agreements when someone purchases property will state that you are responsible for protecting the value of the collateral attached to the agreement and some will reference CCR’s attached. What the OP is proposing has the chance of affecting his agreement with his lender, so he needs to be careful not to place his family at risk of being pursued by his lender for any violations. And I am having a difficult time understanding why you are arguing against the OP taking precautionary measures.

> It's more accurate to say everyone that spoke up was willing to let us leave.

Just to put into perspective this issue of getting enough votes. Usually these things are written as a percentage of the TOTAL number of votes, not those at a meeting. And it is not unusual for a minor updating of the CC&Rs to require a multi-month effort with multiple mailings to get enough votes. And that's when the changes are minor.

Dave

I can empathize with one of the 5 not wanting out. One reason I like HOA's is the control it does give to keep the neighborhood to a standard. I would not want Hank the Junkman moving in next door to ma and making the place a junkyard.

Not that a class act like you bothers me Dave,.....but Hank does.....LOL

ALL covenants, including the US Constitution, can be amended by a vote.

This was stated in the covenants you signed for when you bought.

Only inalienable rights are guaranteed, and them only by gunpoint.

If in doubt, consult a 'Minute Man'

Janet,

I would expect that the section you sited deals with making condominium units or individual lots larger and/or smaller. If the boundaries between units are not being changed, I doubt that the mortgage company would care.

How on earth does amending a declaration equate to relocating boundaries between adjoining units?

Wait! I just figured it out! Pot is legal in Colorado!

Our HOA doesn't have any of those things. Well, it does have a private road that I don't live on and I have absolutely no interest in owning part of it.
I guess one thing an HOA can do is police the neighborhood. But then again I don't even want them to be doing that. I trust my neighbors. One of my neighbors that also wants out says the HOA has never come down to our road to police what we were doing. My other next door neighbor is building a very big garage. One of the stalls is so big he could fit a semi tractor or 5th wheel in it. Now I don't object to it but my point is no one came to ask us if this was acceptable. Weren't they supposed to? I'm not going to miss any benefits that I have already not been receiving.