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Business Vehicle Versus Commercial Vehicle

Started by LB3 • 22 replies • 6309 views

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LB3 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Can the county laws override the Hoa rules regarding a business vehicle. My husband has to home garage his work vehicle, which is considered a business vehicle because of the weight and the truck type. The vehicle is a van and it does have the company logo on the van. It is parked all the way at the end of the driveway and the only way it can be seen is to turn in the driveway or look all the way down the driveway in the day time. The van cannot be seen at night unless you turn in the driveway with headlights on. The HOA says it can be parked in the garage, (this van will not fit because of the ladders mounted on top of the vehicle) or it can be parked behind the house. For the van to be parked in back of the home, we would have to pay for major construction to tear up part of the driveway and bring in concrete to pave around to the back as well as re-construct the deck. There is no other place he can park the van as he is on call one week out of the month and when he is called, he has to go to work. How can we come to an understanding about home garaging his company vehicle.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
if the county law SPECIFICALLY exempts 'work vehicles' from HOA regulation you are 'good to go'

if not, you can't park it in your driveway

this restriction was in effect WHEN YOU BOUGHT

you (apparently) want to violate your contract (the Covenants and Restrictions)

you may bring a petition to the Board of Directors for an amendment to the CCRs, but, don't hold your hopes high

you will have to find a different place to park or seek other employment

OR

pay the fine(s) on an ongoing basis and wait for the injunction from the court

THEN

pay all the legal bills

OR, a real PITA,

storing the ladders along the side of the house so the van CAN fit in the garage

ps. the Board does NOT have the authority to waive or change a recorded restriction
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
From what you've written, LB3, JohnB's assessment seems correct. And the board can't really some sort of "understanding" about this covenant.

But to clarify: What do the county regulations say?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Business vehicle = commercial vehicle.

Who owns the vehicle isn't the issue. The issue would be what the vehicle is used for and, typically, if it has any commercial markings.

Defining "commercial" is often at the desecration of the Association.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
It depends.

What exactly do your documents say?
Chances are that the HOA board has taken a vague restriction from your documents and enacted a wide-ranging rule regarding what constitutes a "commercial" vehicle.

If that's the case, you can discuss the matter with your HOA board and review their rules
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 03/04/2014 6:44 PM

What exactly do your documents say?
Chances are that the HOA board has taken a vague restriction from your documents and enacted a wide-ranging rule regarding what constitutes a "commercial" vehicle.

The term "commercial vehicle" seems to have no widely-accepted legal definition. I recently looked for the term in my state's motor vehicle law and found each time it was used it was always accompanied by a definition that applied to only one section of law. In most cases, the statutes defined "commercial vehicle" as something with at least 18,000 GVW.

To answer the question as to whether the van with ladders on the roof is prohibited, we need to see the text from the CC&R's regarding what vehicles are prohibited.

To answer the original question, however, the HOA usually can adopt stricter rules that the county.

In some states, such as mine, state law prohibits an HOA from banning the parking of certain first-response vehicles.

LB3 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The county municode is as follows:

In all residential zoning districts, the parking of the following commercial vehicles is permitted:

1.

An automobile, pick-up truck, van or SUV used to provide daily transportation to and from work.

2.

A commercial vehicle that is parked temporarily in conjunction with a commercial service, sale or delivery.

3.

School buses used for the primary purpose of transporting children to and from state licensed or accredited elementary, middle or high schools; provided such vehicle is parked off any public thoroughfare, on a hard-surfaced area, and in the side or rear yard.

The HOA rules is as follows:

Commercial vehicles, motor homes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, scooters, campers, buses, shall be parked only in enclosed garages, unless approved by ARC. If requesting approval to park such vehicles other than in enclosed garage, the following criteria must be met:
Such vehicle shall be parked behind the front line of the house.
Parked on a paved surface.
Vehicle does not exceed (4) feet in height and (10) feet in length.
Vehicle is kept covered at all times with a suitable cover made for that type of vehicle and cover is natural or of a color that blends with surroundings.
Vehicle is not unsightly
Approval is obtained from all homeowners who have immediate view of vehicle
Maximum of (1) vehicle allowed.

Please advise.
LB3 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Forgot to add that the ladders can be taken/removed from the top of the van, however the ladder racks are higher than the normal height of the garage which prohibits him from parking in the garage. If the van could get in the garage, no problem, however this is not the case.

Since we recently purchased this home, (you are correct-should have read the rules before the purchase). We would have looked somewhere else. Strange that (2) streets from this subdivision follows the county rules to avoid the complaints, however nothing in this subdivision for sale. Nice area and the commercial/business vehicles we have seen in this other area is parked all the way back at the end of the driveway and the only view is when you look or turn in the driveway. The vehicle cannot be seen when looking down the street.
JamesG (Connecticut)
Posts: 83
Posted:
I suggest that he leave the truck at his work place. When he is on call, he can drive to work with his personal vehicle and get the truck. Sure it is not convenient, but this is what he does the other 3 weeks out of the month.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LB3 on 03/05/2014 5:36 AM

The HOA rules is as follows:

Commercial vehicles, motor homes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, scooters, campers, buses, shall be parked only in enclosed garages, unless approved by ARC. If requesting approval to park such vehicles other than in enclosed garage, the following criteria must be met:
Such vehicle shall be parked behind the front line of the house.
Parked on a paved surface.
Vehicle does not exceed (4) feet in height and (10) feet in length.
Vehicle is kept covered at all times with a suitable cover made for that type of vehicle and cover is natural or of a color that blends with surroundings.
Vehicle is not unsightly
Approval is obtained from all homeowners who have immediate view of vehicle
Maximum of (1) vehicle allowed.

Please advise.

What advice are you looking for.
Your HOA rule seems to be fairly clear.

If you want your husband to park the company vehicle on the property it must either be in the garage or meet the criteria you cited and receive approval from your architectural review committee.

Does the vehicle meet the criteria? If yes, submit a request to the ARC. If no, keep parking it in the garage or have him tell the company that HOA rules prevent him from parking the company vehicle on the property.

Have you previously applied to the ARC and been told no? If this is the case, what was the reason?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG on 03/05/2014 7:03 AM
I suggest that he leave the truck at his work place. When he is on call, he can drive to work with his personal vehicle and get the truck. Sure it is not convenient, but this is what he does the other 3 weeks out of the month.


JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LB3 on 03/05/2014 5:36 AM
The county municode is as follows:

In all residential zoning districts, the parking of the following commercial vehicles is permitted:

1.

An automobile, pick-up truck, van or SUV used to provide daily transportation to and from work.


If your local government code is as stated above then the HOA should not be able to affect parking of a vehicle utilized for transportation to and from work. Essentially your local government is insuring that work transportation cannot be affected.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LB3 on 03/05/2014 5:36 AM

The HOA rules is as follows:

Commercial vehicles, motor homes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, scooters, campers, buses, shall be parked only in enclosed garages, unless approved by ARC. If requesting approval to park such vehicles other than in enclosed garage, the following criteria must be met:
Such vehicle shall be parked behind the front line of the house.
Parked on a paved surface.
Vehicle does not exceed (4) feet in height and (10) feet in length.
Vehicle is kept covered at all times with a suitable cover made for that type of vehicle and cover is natural or of a color that blends with surroundings.
Vehicle is not unsightly
Approval is obtained from all homeowners who have immediate view of vehicle
Maximum of (1) vehicle allowed.


I have a 2014 Ford Explorer and its height is 70.4 inches (5'10.4") and length is 197.1 inches (16'.425").

I am afraid I would not pass their ARC requirement, better yet, go in front of a judge with those requirements.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/05/2014 12:36 PM
Posted By LB3 on 03/05/2014 5:36 AM

The HOA rules is as follows:

Commercial vehicles, motor homes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, scooters, campers, buses, shall be parked only in enclosed garages, unless approved by ARC. If requesting approval to park such vehicles other than in enclosed garage, the following criteria must be met:
Such vehicle shall be parked behind the front line of the house.
Parked on a paved surface.
Vehicle does not exceed (4) feet in height and (10) feet in length.
Vehicle is kept covered at all times with a suitable cover made for that type of vehicle and cover is natural or of a color that blends with surroundings.
Vehicle is not unsightly
Approval is obtained from all homeowners who have immediate view of vehicle
Maximum of (1) vehicle allowed.



I have a 2014 Ford Explorer and its height is 70.4 inches (5'10.4") and length is 197.1 inches (16'.425").

I am afraid I would not pass their ARC requirement, better yet, go in front of a judge with those requirements.

Richard.

I think you misinterpreted it.

It is defining what must be parked in a garage. Then it says but some of the type vehicles listed might could be parked outside. Typical example of the less then 4ft x 10ft might be a smallish fold down camper or a trailer or a boat or a motorcycle, etc. if covered, if not unsightly, only one such allowed, neighbors that have an immediate must agree, etc.

MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
HOA covenants may be more restrictive than the local municipalities. The state has their definition of commercial, then the county or city, but the HOA may have theirs as well. The county also recently passed a new law restricting commercial vehicles on state maintained roads. With our private streets (owned by the hoa), they are much smaller and the following rule applies to commercial vehicles. "Commercial Vehicles. Parking of commercial vehicles in open view within the community is not allowed. A commercial vehicle is defined as any vehicle that (i) bears any visible commercial advertising signs, names logos, dealer tags, letterings or initials (not including bumper stickers or similar sized stickers); or (ii) is used, or intended for use, as a car for hire or a work vehicle, which may be evidenced by open carriage of pipes, lumber or other work-related construction, equipment, machinery, materials or ladders, including but not limited to ladder racks, pipe racks, tools or other equipment; or (iii) vehicles designed or intended for use as commercial buses, cargo vans, express vans, delivery vans, flatbeds or trucks used for any other purpose other than for private/consumer use. Advertising is defined to include, but not be limited to the display of a company name and/or product name and telephone number and/or email address."

No this does not apply the Dealer emblems or tag surrounds "IE Jack Smith Chevrolet" nor does it apply to the manufacturer emblems Like "Ford, Chev etc.

Leave it to the county zoning office to approve communities with parking so limited. There just really isn't enough room for all these commercial vehicles plus their personal cars.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 03/05/2014 1:06 PM
Leave it to the county zoning office to approve communities with parking so limited. There just really isn't enough room for all these commercial vehicles plus their personal cars.

Yep ... they want to squeeze in as many property tax paying customers into as small of a space as possible. But they also have to insure the "welfare" of citizens is protected being able to perform their job, so they have money to pay their taxes, association dues, groceries, etc.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
I believe you have to insure that any rule regulating the parking of "Commercial Vehicles" is "fair and reasonable".

When some rules were enacted, they were done so by the developer as "one size fits all". I live in a single family home built by KB Homes. It is a pretty good size community with wide (parking legally on both sides of the street)private streets. KB Homes also built condos and townhomes in our cities. One such community had the same initial rules and regulations as we did, yet they didn't have the same allotment for parking as we did. So parking an oversize "commercial vehicle" in one community was easier than the other.

I agree 100% with Janet that one of the considerations has to be that the homeowner pays what is vitally important to the HOA, and that is their assessments. Five years ago we had a Board member tow a "commercial vehicle" that had a decal from a company she didn't like. To this day she still asks why is that damn truck still parking in our neighborhood.

IMO, if your community needs to enact a policy BECAUSE of space constraints, make sure the language is fool proof and specific. Make sure the rule is "fair and reasonable", not done out of spite. I am afraid that taller than 4 ft and longer than 10 ft just doesn't cut it.
LB3 (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
He drives the vehicle everyday back and forth to work and not just when he is on call. We are requesting to talk to the ARC, because the understanding that seems to apply is their 1st rule of allowing commercial vehicles to be used for transportation to and from work. However, there has been conflicting rules from different members of the ARC. I was trying to get some information just in case court action will be our last resort and the judge has the last word.
TaniaV (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Does he have a vehicle available other than the one he drives to/from work? We have our own business but cannot park our work truck at our home, either, but our nearby mechanic lets us park in his lot overnight, and we drive to it and swap vehicles. Before that arrangement we paid a very nominal fee (IIRC it was $20 a month) to park in the lot at a local industrial park.

It took some time and talking to people, but it was much less hassle than suing or doing a reno project on the house.

Best of luck.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LB3 on 03/06/2014 12:07 PM
He drives the vehicle everyday back and forth to work and not just when he is on call. We are requesting to talk to the ARC, because the understanding that seems to apply is their 1st rule of allowing commercial vehicles to be used for transportation to and from work. However, there has been conflicting rules from different members of the ARC. I was trying to get some information just in case court action will be our last resort and the judge has the last word.

Have you talked with the County? Maybe they could issue a letter stating whether you have that right even if you are in an HOA. They would know whether or not for sure their statute as stated superseeds.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
As a committee, LB3, they need to give you one written opinion, not several conflicting verbal ones. You also need to make your request to them in writing. You might politely ask them to please meet with you and let you or your husband plead your case to them.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/05/2014 1:02 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/05/2014 12:36 PM
Posted By LB3 on 03/05/2014 5:36 AM

The HOA rules is as follows:

Commercial vehicles, motor homes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, scooters, campers, buses, shall be parked only in enclosed garages, unless approved by ARC. If requesting approval to park such vehicles other than in enclosed garage, the following criteria must be met:
Such vehicle shall be parked behind the front line of the house.
Parked on a paved surface.
Vehicle does not exceed (4) feet in height and (10) feet in length.
Vehicle is kept covered at all times with a suitable cover made for that type of vehicle and cover is natural or of a color that blends with surroundings.
Vehicle is not unsightly
Approval is obtained from all homeowners who have immediate view of vehicle
Maximum of (1) vehicle allowed.



I have a 2014 Ford Explorer and its height is 70.4 inches (5'10.4") and length is 197.1 inches (16'.425").

I am afraid I would not pass their ARC requirement, better yet, go in front of a judge with those requirements.


Richard.

I think you misinterpreted it.

It is defining what must be parked in a garage. Then it says but some of the type vehicles listed might could be parked outside. Typical example of the less then 4ft x 10ft might be a smallish fold down camper or a trailer or a boat or a motorcycle, etc. if covered, if not unsightly, only one such allowed, neighbors that have an immediate must agree, etc.


A trailer is not a "vehicle", and as far as I'm aware, there exists exactly ZERO road-licenseable vehicles that meet their 4' x 10' requirement, save a motorcycle without a windshield.

They also fail to define what constitutes a "commercial vehicle". Unless otherwise defined, I would expect the default to be whatever the state uses for the same definition, which probably isn't a work van.

Granted, they do mention trailers in their list, but the entire section is poorly written and vague at best.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 03/07/2014 4:31 AM

A trailer is not a "vehicle",

It might not be a "motorized" vehicle, like a car or truck, but it is indeed a vehicle.

According to US Legal.com:

Vehicle includes any mechanical device on wheels, designed mainly for use, or used, on highways, except motorized bicycles, vehicles propelled or drawn by horses or human power, or vehicles used exclusively on fixed rails or tracks, or cotton trailers or motorized wheelchairs operated by handicapped persons. In re Lund, 2005 Bankr. LEXIS 2643, 1-2 (Bankr. W.D. Mo. Dec. 9, 2005)

Example of state statutes (Texas) defining vehicle.

Tex. Ins. Code § 4055.051 defines vehicle as follows

“***

(4) "Vehicle" means:

(A) a private passenger motor vehicle, including passenger vans and minivans that are primarily intended for the transport of persons;

(B) a motor home;

(C) a motorcycle;

(D) a trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less; or

(E) a truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or less and the operation of which does not require a commercial driver's license.

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