PP1 (Washington)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
What is the difference between the two documents?
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CCR vs By-laws
Started by PP1 • 23 replies • 4761 views
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CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Welcome to the Forum. Here's a concise definition of each:
"Purpose of CC&Rs. Unlike bylaws, which address the governance of an association, a Declaration of Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions ("Declaration" or "CC&Rs") describes the rights and obligations of the membership to the association and the association to the membership. CC&Rs generally cover the following: (i) restrictions on the use of property, (ii) member and association maintenance duties, (iii) enforcement powers, (iv) lender protection provisions, (v) assessments obligations and lien/collection rights, (vi) duty to insure, and (vii) dispute resolution and attorneys' fees provisions."
Read more: CC&Rs http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/1254/Default.aspx#ixzz2uYQfxyj9
from Davis-Stirling.com.
Davis-stirling.com is an excellent resource that's prepared by some CA HOA attorneys, but often is useful for non-CA HOAs, such as for your question.
Take a look at your own in your HOA and you should be able to see the differences. Another difference is that the bylaws often are a fairly short document of 20 or so pages. CC&Rs, though, often are very long--ours is 120 pages! The Rules & Regulations of your HOA flow, in general, from your CC&Rs.
"Purpose of CC&Rs. Unlike bylaws, which address the governance of an association, a Declaration of Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions ("Declaration" or "CC&Rs") describes the rights and obligations of the membership to the association and the association to the membership. CC&Rs generally cover the following: (i) restrictions on the use of property, (ii) member and association maintenance duties, (iii) enforcement powers, (iv) lender protection provisions, (v) assessments obligations and lien/collection rights, (vi) duty to insure, and (vii) dispute resolution and attorneys' fees provisions."
Read more: CC&Rs http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/1254/Default.aspx#ixzz2uYQfxyj9
from Davis-Stirling.com.
Davis-stirling.com is an excellent resource that's prepared by some CA HOA attorneys, but often is useful for non-CA HOAs, such as for your question.
Take a look at your own in your HOA and you should be able to see the differences. Another difference is that the bylaws often are a fairly short document of 20 or so pages. CC&Rs, though, often are very long--ours is 120 pages! The Rules & Regulations of your HOA flow, in general, from your CC&Rs.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
PP1,
HOA-USA gives a good summary of each Association governing document.
As a side note, Community Association Networks, a sponsor of this site, provides a lot of good free information on its Oregon page (they have a page for each State)
Some States require Associations, especially condominiums, are required to register the CC&Rs and Bylaws and have them attached to your deed. When this occurs, the two documents are often referred to interchangeably.
However, the main difference between the documents are the CC&Rs is the contract between the members. It specifies the agreed upon conditions and restrictions every member will comply with. It also creates the Association and empowers the Association. The Bylaws should be the administrative manual for the Association as it explains how the Association should be ran.
Hope this helps,
Tim
HOA-USA gives a good summary of each Association governing document.
As a side note, Community Association Networks, a sponsor of this site, provides a lot of good free information on its Oregon page (they have a page for each State)
Some States require Associations, especially condominiums, are required to register the CC&Rs and Bylaws and have them attached to your deed. When this occurs, the two documents are often referred to interchangeably.
However, the main difference between the documents are the CC&Rs is the contract between the members. It specifies the agreed upon conditions and restrictions every member will comply with. It also creates the Association and empowers the Association. The Bylaws should be the administrative manual for the Association as it explains how the Association should be ran.
Hope this helps,
Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
OK. For some reason I thought you were in Oregon.
Here are the links referencing the Washington State pages:
HOA-USA Washington State page
Community Association Network Washington State page.
Here are the links referencing the Washington State pages:
HOA-USA Washington State page
Community Association Network Washington State page.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
the ByLaws are corporate documents which state how the CORPORATION is to be run
most, if not all, HOAs are incorporated to shield the members of the HOA from personal liability re: the common elements
not inc. you could lose your home in a lawsuit
inc. you can only lose your 'share' of the common elements
many many times the 'bylaws' are referred to erroneously when it is the CCRs (the contract) which is the issue
the easy way to remember is COVENANTS C & Rs
most, if not all, HOAs are incorporated to shield the members of the HOA from personal liability re: the common elements
not inc. you could lose your home in a lawsuit
inc. you can only lose your 'share' of the common elements
many many times the 'bylaws' are referred to erroneously when it is the CCRs (the contract) which is the issue
the easy way to remember is COVENANTS C & Rs
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I've noticed the confusion that sometimes occurs, too, JohnB. In addition, sometimes folks think that bylaws and the Rules & Regulations mean the same thing--they don't. Each serve very different functions.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
The Covenants are the what, the By-laws are the how. For instance while the Covenants may call for annual election of trustees the By-laws will spell out how the election is to be held and any qualifications of candidates.
You cannot write a rule or a By-law that contradicts a Covenant. For instance if the Covenants forbid storage sheds, you cannot pass a rule or By-law that allows them.
You cannot write a rule or a By-law that contradicts a Covenant. For instance if the Covenants forbid storage sheds, you cannot pass a rule or By-law that allows them.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
....and if the covenants are silent you may not add a rule which prohibits
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 02/27/2014 1:28 PM
....and if the covenants are silent you may not add a rule which prohibits
....and if the covenants are silent you may not add a rule which prohibits
Not always. It depends on what the rule applies to.
Example: Covenants say all exterior changes must have prior approval from the Association.
The Association may then (and should) adopt architectural guidelines on what will or won't be approved and any size restrictions.
However, there are court cases that show the courts ruling (in some instances) that if the documents are silent it is seen as an intent to omit. Of course, this will depend on what the issue is and what, if anything, the document does say. The court cases I've seen on this related to enforcement procedures and monetary penalties and not toward architectural guidelines.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
example stated: the covenants were NOT silent ... they said 'must be approved'...rule was made re: approvals
eg.
cov. bans awnings .... rules define awnings
cov. is silent re: window coverings/awnings .... rule banning may not be made (except that color of exterior itemsmay apply)
in the covenants will be a section: restrictions
no rule adding a restriction not in the cov. may be 'added' w/o amending the actual cov.
this issue is, imo, the BIGGEST issue in HOAs
'boards' who think they are in charge and can do whatever they want
the board's job is merely to run the corporation as per the CONTRACTED OBLIGATIONS OF THE CC&Rs and nothing else
if the cov. is silent re: house color (unlikely, just as an example)
the ho may paint ANY COLOR they desire UNLESS there is provision re: exterior change/arc com.
eg.
cov. bans awnings .... rules define awnings
cov. is silent re: window coverings/awnings .... rule banning may not be made (except that color of exterior itemsmay apply)
in the covenants will be a section: restrictions
no rule adding a restriction not in the cov. may be 'added' w/o amending the actual cov.
this issue is, imo, the BIGGEST issue in HOAs
'boards' who think they are in charge and can do whatever they want
the board's job is merely to run the corporation as per the CONTRACTED OBLIGATIONS OF THE CC&Rs and nothing else
if the cov. is silent re: house color (unlikely, just as an example)
the ho may paint ANY COLOR they desire UNLESS there is provision re: exterior change/arc com.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
ANY RULE MUST HAVE A BASIS IN THE CC&Rs
if the ccrs cover an item 'rules' may be made re: THAT ITEM
if the ccrs are 'silent' - they are silent
A RULE CAN ONLY CODIFY/DEFINE A RESTRICTION IN THE CCRs
RULES CAN NOT BE 'CONJURED UP' AT WILL BY THE BOD
if the ccrs cover an item 'rules' may be made re: THAT ITEM
if the ccrs are 'silent' - they are silent
A RULE CAN ONLY CODIFY/DEFINE A RESTRICTION IN THE CCRs
RULES CAN NOT BE 'CONJURED UP' AT WILL BY THE BOD
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 02/27/2014 2:27 PM
example stated: the covenants were NOT silent ... they said 'must be approved'...rule was made re: approvals
eg.
cov. bans awnings .... rules define awnings
cov. is silent re: window coverings/awnings .... rule banning may not be made (except that color of exterior itemsmay apply)
in the covenants will be a section: restrictions
no rule adding a restriction not in the cov. may be 'added' w/o amending the actual cov.
this issue is, imo, the BIGGEST issue in HOAs
'boards' who think they are in charge and can do whatever they want
the board's job is merely to run the corporation as per the CONTRACTED OBLIGATIONS OF THE CC&Rs and nothing else
if the cov. is silent re: house color (unlikely, just as an example)
the ho may paint ANY COLOR they desire UNLESS there is provision re: exterior change/arc com.
example stated: the covenants were NOT silent ... they said 'must be approved'...rule was made re: approvals
eg.
cov. bans awnings .... rules define awnings
cov. is silent re: window coverings/awnings .... rule banning may not be made (except that color of exterior itemsmay apply)
in the covenants will be a section: restrictions
no rule adding a restriction not in the cov. may be 'added' w/o amending the actual cov.
this issue is, imo, the BIGGEST issue in HOAs
'boards' who think they are in charge and can do whatever they want
the board's job is merely to run the corporation as per the CONTRACTED OBLIGATIONS OF THE CC&Rs and nothing else
if the cov. is silent re: house color (unlikely, just as an example)
the ho may paint ANY COLOR they desire UNLESS there is provision re: exterior change/arc com.
Gonna have to respectfully disagree.
CCRs may not have specific rules, but will give the Association the ability to create "fair and reasonable" rules. This may also apply to Architectural rules, as long as they follow the above criteria.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 02/27/2014 2:27 PM
cov. bans awnings .... rules define awnings
cov. is silent re: window coverings/awnings .... rule banning may not be made (except that color of exterior itemsmay apply)
cov. bans awnings .... rules define awnings
cov. is silent re: window coverings/awnings .... rule banning may not be made (except that color of exterior itemsmay apply)
John,
Can you provide references (court cases, articles, etc.) for the basis of your understanding.
As I said, I've only seen the "intent to omit" being applied to monetary damages and not to exterior changes. This is why I ask.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
any rules and regulations made by the BOD must derive their authority from the covenants or restrictions referenced by the deed
if the ccr gives the hoa authority to govern the common area it will say so
if the ccr gives the arch. com. auth. it will say so
all restrictions to the use of property is stated in the covenants and restrictions
if it ain't covered in the ccr it don't exist
this does not mean that the bod may not make r&r concerning common elements or restrictions in the ccr, or the arch. com. (which only exists if the ccr says so) can't issue guidelines, merely that it can't 'invent' them whenever it feels like it
eg.
ccr bans parking of commercial vehicle in driveway ~ bod rules define commercial vehicle
ccr silent on commercial vehicle parking (not mentioned under restriction article) - bod may NOT issue rule banning parking
else the BOD would be elected dictators and the contract / covenants would have no meaning
if the ccr gives the hoa authority to govern the common area it will say so
if the ccr gives the arch. com. auth. it will say so
all restrictions to the use of property is stated in the covenants and restrictions
if it ain't covered in the ccr it don't exist
this does not mean that the bod may not make r&r concerning common elements or restrictions in the ccr, or the arch. com. (which only exists if the ccr says so) can't issue guidelines, merely that it can't 'invent' them whenever it feels like it
eg.
ccr bans parking of commercial vehicle in driveway ~ bod rules define commercial vehicle
ccr silent on commercial vehicle parking (not mentioned under restriction article) - bod may NOT issue rule banning parking
else the BOD would be elected dictators and the contract / covenants would have no meaning
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Bylaws are a corporate requirement and have nothing to do with property restrictions or rules and regulations. All corporations have bylaws whether they are non-profits of business corporations. Bylaws control the corporation, not the members and not the real estate.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Along the lines of what JohnB says. It is quite common for a BOD to try and use Rules & Regulations to "override" Covenants and/or Bylaws that they do not like nor wish to abide by. It is also quite common for BOD's to make up R&R's to attempt to control things they have no authority to control. Pet control and rental restrictions are two areas this misuse of authority is quite commonly tried.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
It is also quite common for BOD's to make up R&R's to attempt to control things they have no authority to control
Ain't that the sad truth.
That is how attorneys get very nice cars.
SuzanneL (Florida)
Posts: 32
Posts: 32
Posted:
I would appreciate your opinions.
The declaration restrictions section of our document book does authorize the board of directors to promulgate rules and regulations in the following areas: pets, barbeques, litter and garbage collection, and personal property (on lots). Recreational vehicles and certain commercial vehicles are also prohibited
The declarations section of our document book authorizes the board to adopt rules and regulations governing the use of common spaces.
Parking rules were adopted by an earlier board, but not made part of the declaration or voted on by members. The current board has recently started a draconian towing policy claiming authority to adopt rules for the streets which are common spaces. Our declaration does not authorize the board to tow or mention towing.
Is the authority to adopt rules and regulations governing the use of common spaces sufficiently broad for the board to adopt any rule they want if it somehow involves a common area such as on-street parking?
The declaration restrictions section of our document book does authorize the board of directors to promulgate rules and regulations in the following areas: pets, barbeques, litter and garbage collection, and personal property (on lots). Recreational vehicles and certain commercial vehicles are also prohibited
The declarations section of our document book authorizes the board to adopt rules and regulations governing the use of common spaces.
Parking rules were adopted by an earlier board, but not made part of the declaration or voted on by members. The current board has recently started a draconian towing policy claiming authority to adopt rules for the streets which are common spaces. Our declaration does not authorize the board to tow or mention towing.
Is the authority to adopt rules and regulations governing the use of common spaces sufficiently broad for the board to adopt any rule they want if it somehow involves a common area such as on-street parking?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
basically, unless a court rules differently, yes
the courts have held that a rule may NOT be arbitrary or capricious, it must serve a genuine purpose for the good of the membership
the streets are only a common area if they are owned and operated by the HOA
all this depends upon the EXACT wording of your CCRs
the courts have held that a rule may NOT be arbitrary or capricious, it must serve a genuine purpose for the good of the membership
the streets are only a common area if they are owned and operated by the HOA
all this depends upon the EXACT wording of your CCRs
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
ps.
I would contact your 'register of deeds' at the county seat and get an actual copy of the Covenants and Restrictions recorded against your deed.
Do NOT depend upon the 'handbook' printed out by the BOD.
I would contact your 'register of deeds' at the county seat and get an actual copy of the Covenants and Restrictions recorded against your deed.
Do NOT depend upon the 'handbook' printed out by the BOD.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
JohnB is correct. Handbooks are often a BOD's way of interpreting Covenants, Bylaws, etc. to their point of view versus actuality.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I think I've seen "Documents Book" on this forum previously re: Florida. The docs she refers to seem to mean the covenants (declaration or CC&Rs).
I don't think Suzanne means that this book is a Rules & Regulations Handbook. Can you clarify, Suzanne?
I don't think Suzanne means that this book is a Rules & Regulations Handbook. Can you clarify, Suzanne?
SuzanneL (Florida)
Posts: 32
Posts: 32
Posted:
Our CC&Rs are printed along with our bylaws in one handbook titled [HOA Name} Document Book. I have the original one from the developer and it is available online from the county. The HOA through the property manager gives printed and .pdf versions that include board-adopted rules. Many in the community don't realize that some of the rules such as the rental program have no legal standing because they were added by a board and not voted on by the membership. Association attorneys have cautioned the board that they can't impose the rental program, but some boards try anyways and direct the PM to enforce it. They are usually unsuccessful except for gullible new members who don't know the history.
I won't go into details, but some residents have successfully recovered their towing fees in small claims court because the judge agreed it was unreasonable.
I won't go into details, but some residents have successfully recovered their towing fees in small claims court because the judge agreed it was unreasonable.
ChristyD1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posts: 11
Posted:
We have no bylaws for my subdivision. The board seems to have no set rule for the voting or really how to manage the HOA due to that.
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