How to handle Property Manager's inappropriate response?

CathyT1 - Your Property Manager's response was inappropriate. She reports to the Board and as you are on the ACC Committee she is to comply with the powers and duties the Board grants you. I would re-request the information you seek with an explanation of the purpose. If the info is not forthcoming, take it up with the Board. Obviously there is a turf war going on.

Thank you for your replies. This is our third property manager for our community. I was on the Board but resigned after I rec'd no help from the other two members and the PM office had no clue what they were doing and would not reply to our emails or requests. The Board, when I was one it, after the transition back in Nov., agreed to end the contract with the PM and seek another PM company. Then the two other board members decided without evening consulting me to keep them on. I then decided to leave my position, as this was voluntary and didn't need to be stabbed in the back. Anyway, our committees have finally been set up after six months. The board and the PM know and are aware that I have my own book for my personal use and for the use of the entire ACC Committee as well as the Rule Enforcement Committee for easy review and for the sheer convenience of not having to wait months to get answers from the PM and/or having to go down there time and time again. Not only that, I have neighbors come to me time and time again looking for answers and why nothing is being done. I regret resigning, as I know I would have and did get things done and neighbors still look to me for that. I am tired of being treated rudely by the PM and wondered if other homeowners receive the same type of response.

This is exactly has transpired today with the PM:

1. ME – Cathy: Hi, I would like to come down to CDC office this week to view the documents and most probably request copies be made (at my cost, of course):

a. All Violation notices sent out to homeowners from December, 2006 to the present;
b. All ACC applications, dating back to when DR Horton was on the ACC
c. All Approvals & Denials of all ACC applications including to, but not limited to, dating back to when DR Horton was on the ACC;
d. All County Code violations submitted to the County;
e. Any and all complaints rec'd by CDC; and
f. A copy of February/March's financial statements (by email, if possible).
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Cathy

2. PROPERTY MANAGER: Hello Cathy, Yes that would be fine. How about Thursday, 4/12 maybe around 1:30pm? ~Ekaterina

3. ME: Hi, Actually, the morning (9-11 am) would be best. I already have a previous appt. at 2:00 pm on Thursday. Thanks,

4. PROPERTY MANAGER: Cathy, I won’t be in until 10, but I will leave the binder at the front desk for your review. ~Ekaterina

5. ME – CATHY: Hi, I would rather you be there to make sure I have all the documents. How about 10:30 to 11:30? Thanks,

6. PROPERTY MANAGER: You can review what is in the ACC binder as is. I’m sure I have additional “still-in-process” paperwork that is not in there and I will not be updating the binder by the time of your visit. 10:30-11:30 is fine with me. ~Ekaterina

7 .ME – CATHY: Please let me know when it would be convenient to view all the additional documents "still in process" so that I won't have to make two trips? That would probably work better. Thanks,

8. PROPERTY MANAGER: Cathy, I have tons of paperwork to deal with and I will be doing it at my own pace and way. So, you are welcome to view what you’ve requested as is. ~Ekaterina

9. ME – CATHY: Hi Ekaterina, No need to be rude, I am just asking to view the documents "at your convenience" and when ready - so that I won't have to make two trips. All I want is the completed documentation up through March at your convenience. Is there an issue with this request? Just out of curiosity - through what months are ready for my review now and what are you working on now? Thanks.

10. PROPERTY MANAGER: Cathy, Should I keep our 10:30am meeting on Thursday or not? I am sorry, but I do not report to you. If you’d like to review certain things – you are more than welcome to stop by and do so. And, currently, I’m not working on Rockport issues as I have other properties to address as well.

11. ME – CATHY I am simply asking you when I can review all the documentation for Rockport thru March of 07. Nothing more nothing less. Let's not go in circles and keep this professional. Thanks

12. PROPERTY MANAGER: (no response yet)

CathyT1 - I get most of the entire picture now that you have provided it. I know you are being fastidious but the association business is not the be all and end all to life. If all owners cared as much as you!! Now, you're the one that threw in the comment about the PM being rude. IMO, she wasn't. You are pressing her for a definitive answer about "still-in-process" paperwork. What she is saying on line 8 is that you should review what is currently done and then make another trip to review the "still-in-process" paperwork when that is done. Your association is not the only one the PM works on and you've got to accept that and accomdate the PM. The PM reports to the Board and the Board should be pressing her for availability of the months that are ready for review, not you. You should email the PM apologizing for the "rude" comment and that you will keep your 10:30am meeting and ask if she can help you by advising when there are updates. Quite frankly, if she doesn't comply and it becomes a day job, you should step away entirely, and let the chips fall. The owners are relying on you way too much and it may become too dysfunctional.

It did when the other two members had a "personal agenda" and wanted to keep the PM company. FYI: the HOA did not switch PM companies; the company simply kept changing the managers for our association for incompetence, fraud, (yes fraud) and not replying. Being the only sound person and actually doing the job of the PM, (which probably actually pissed them off), and the other two board members in the meantime were protecting their own county code and CC&R violations as well a protecting "a friend" of the President who worked for the PM company - so, conflict of interest too. Being that it is a voluntary position - I did not agree with the other two board members on their personal agenda and their backstabbing. It's not worth it to me or my family to volunteer in a position when this occurs. Would you accept this in a job position, let alone a volunteer position? Also, pursuant to every governing document we have, it states clearly that any homeowner at any time can view documents. If you own your own business, which I do, and own several homes, would you want your associates treating your clients in this manner? Obviously not. I have never had an issue with an HOA before until now. I have several homeowners who also agree with us and don't understand why the board is conducting itself in the manner it is.

To respond to your "they do not have an obligation to respond" is purely illogical. They do have an obligation, we are on the committees, we have the right to view documents, and I am a homeowner in the community – and with the right swaying power – will try and get rid of them. I am also volunteering my own time working with the builder to complete landscaping that the board also completed incompetently.

You must obviously not run your own business to know how to treat clients – even if they are indirect clients.

Joe, what I don't you think you understand, is that I requested this information months ago. So asking for a timeframe is the only way to get a definitive answer from the PM company. I agree to disagree with you on her being rude in her reply back to me. I agree with Roger, and he nailed it on the head, they are just giving me the run around and PM company is completely incompetent and lacks experience. They are probably trying to cover their "butts" because they (the board and PM company) acted inappropriately when granting one board member an approval and another regular homeowner the same request an denial. You have not dealt with these people. I have conducted myself professionally with these people that only know how to run around in circles and get nothing done. I bought a property that I want to protect its value and the board and the PM are not doing their jobs, so you better believe I am going to be on their backs making sure they are doing the job we are paying them $12,000.00 plus a year to do. Taking six months to start up the committees, meeting with the developer, etc. just goes to show they are not doing anything. Our community is turning a year old and there are homes in our community that already look like halloween homes. How would you respond to that? You would no doubt be making sure they get things done - and then to receive comments such as hers only reflects their unprofessional attitude on how to conduct business when just requesting to see information.

RonaldW: The Board does not pay the management company. The management company collects assessments from the homeowners and then the management company pays itself from those fees. The management company is supposed to work for the community, not just for assisting the Board. What the Board did not realize and I kept trying to tell them, is that the PM works only under the direction of the Board, not the other way around. That is how the Board is conducting business, letting the PM have the power and control. The Board does not even know what violation letters are being sent out to the homeowners. I rec'd a cc email from the Board and PM, where the board was requesting what the PM had sent out. The Board has no clue what the PM is doing. I, on the other hand will question the PM. It is my right as a homeowner to protect my investment and well as the safety of my community, which still needs repair.

Is that not what I posted? The BOD, acting in the best interest of the community, hires a PM or MC to handle collection of dues, monitor violations, and whatever else the BOD contracts for.

It seems so surprising to me that the remaining board members know so little and that you know so much, yet you chose to resign.

Cathy - is that still the same PM from the developer? It is always best to terminate the developer's PM when the members take over the HOA because that PM is usually beholden to the developer (might even be a subsidiary.) She is probably "busy" now on his other projects. Harold

Hi Cathy:

I've been reading through this thread and can understand your frustration.

It's best for the HOA to review the MC contract at turnover, and consider whether the MC is doing its job for the HOA (or for the developer). It's not an automatic slam-dunk to fire the MC at turnover...but it's good to review the situation.

The Board would be well-advised to review the contract and see where the MC isn't doing its job, and then sit down with the manager and the manager's boss and go over what needs to be done, when...and talk about how long the Board is going to give the MC to get up to speed on the contract.

Unfortunately, there is a dearth of good, experienced people in the HOA management field. This has been exacerbated by the building boom over the last 4-6 years, with many more HOA's being created and therefore many more HOA management positions being created - and in some instances, faster than new managers can get trained. It's a wide open field for compentent people to have a great career in, but unfortunately, not many boys and girls dream of being an HOA manager...

It sounds like your MC may be going through some growing pains, going through several managers in a short time with your HOA. The Board, as I said above, would be well advised to sit down, review the contract, and then go and talk with the MC about what they expect. If they don't get what they need, then talk to the HOA's lawyer, accountant, landscaper, whomever serves the HOA business and see who the preferred management companies in your area are. Most of them know pretty well what's happening in the management companies in their communities and can recommend people/companies that they work with who have their heads on straight.

In the thread above, someone mentioned that the PM works for a number of communities and has to schedule their time accordingly. In my previous job as a portfolio manager, I was spending the first days of each month reviewing financials, preparing management reports, etc. for anywhere from 10-13 communities. If your PM goes to board meetings, that also takes up a good chunk of time during the month. Be willing to make two trips, if necessary, and realize that the PM may still be getting trained and since it's near the beginning of the month, may still be swamped with work. Think about picking a few flowers to take down with you when you review the binder and seeing if some honey will attract more flies in this case. For many of the people in the business, there are too few thank you's.

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

Thank you. Believe it or not, we did actually sit down with the PM and his boss, it's all recorded, and we (when I was on the Board)agreed at that time to terminate the contract with a 90 day notice. The following Sat. when I was to meet with the board, they come and told me they decided to keep the MC - left me out of conversations, and therefore had no vote. This was the point of my frustration, the other two board member's personal agenda. If another MC came in, they would have to make changes, they wanted to keep the status quo. I'm too busy to train and do all the work in the start up of a transition. I realized for my own sanity, it was time for me to leave - and let the chips fall as they will and I will continue, working for the community as best as I can.

Thank you all for your understanding and support :-)))))))))))))

JoeW1 - I have my hands full. I run my own property management business that is very successful. I have kids, my home to take of, and I volunteer on top of that. I have also been a paralegal and have a great understanding of contracts, governing documents, etc. I know what it takes to start up a community after transition, because I have done it before - and still on the board at my other HOA, with great friends there still. I have awesome friends at my new community and have an awesome business that I love. I am very successful and knowledgeable of what I do.

You have your own right to your own opinion, but not sure what "drama" you are referring to. There is no drama, just people not knowing what they are doing and it's the blind leading the blind. As stated before, every homeowner, including myself, has the right to know what the financials are and what the MC/Board has done to this point. I'm also not sure where you are saying I'm setting myself up as the sacrifical lamb? When speaking with my neighbors, they have the same issues I am dealing with and come to me to either understand what's going on or let's work together to get things done. JoeW - it sounds to me like you like to create drama and you need the vacation.

Hi Cathy:

This sounds like the other two board members decided (outside of a board meeting) to keep the contract with the MC...which sounds like an illegal action, if your docs or your state law require open meetings. If that's what happened, then their action can be challenged.

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

SOrry, I missed Joe's post. After reading it I agree with him.

I think there is more to the situation than what Cathy is telling us. If she REALLY owned a Property Management company why would she be putiing posts on this site and posting comments of arguements with her community PM?

Something is fishy here...

Cathy, what is the name of your property management company? Since I am local, maybe it may ring a bell.

Also, I have a friend that lives in a community in the Bothell/Mill Creek area and is always talks about a couple that has been raising a rucus over a fence and being rude to their neighbors. The funny thing is, the wifes name is Cathy. If this is you Cathy, I can fill in a lot of the blanks to your posts since you are the talk of your community. If not, I stand corrected.

Larry

Larry, did I say something that upset you? You seem like a very angry man, perhaps jealous of this couple and/or your neighbors? Not sure what sounds fishy here either? I think I know your friend you speak of. Did he happen to mention through the grapevine to you of this one particular kid in who is the talk of the neighborhood as well?

And yes, I do own my own property management company, yet small that it is, it is a property management company. Let me know if I can be of more assistance to you, as I am building my clientele.

Since she resigned from the board, they have every right to meet and make decisions without her.

I believe there's far more to this situation than what Cathy is telling us and I believe some of the later comments are pretty much on target.

Ronald, I resigned from the Board AFTER the other two board members met in secret and decided to keep the MC for their own personal agenda. There really is nothing far more to the situation other than asking for documentation from the PM? What more are you needing besides that?

CathyT1 - My advise was not meant as a personal dig. It is clear that you need to pass the torch. The neighbors need to work with the Board, and Management first. The neighbors go to the Board or Management, the Board provides the committee chair the information or authorizes Management to do so, you provide a recommendation to the Board. It happens at a different pace than you are used to. If the neighbors need to understand what's going on, why not tell them to go to an open meeting, to join a committee, to work with the Board and Management? Wouldn't that take some of the burden off your shoulders and allow your hands not to be so full? You asked for advice in your original post, got some and have trouble looking at it from a different perspective. The PM was not rude, but let you know that she/he has her own pace and does not report to you. Even when you were on the Board, the PM typically reports to the collective decision of the group or a Pres that forms the directive by reaching out to the fellow Board members. Unless the HOA is run by a dictator or control freak and the PM is foolish enough to listen. Such is life.