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Started by BonnieG1 • 35 replies • 2596 views

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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Our (in my opinion) excellent PM has given his 60 day notice. I am next to positive it is a reult of our President's nick picking.

I just want to run away and hide as I know what a problem we had when we were self managed. But where do I run to?. To sell and move I can not afford to do.
I could resign from the Board, but in the past that is what other Board members have done when things got complicated.

We may need to petition to court for receivership. If she is voted out, we may only have two Board members unless some other people are voted in and our pool of able and willing possible volunteer Board members is very low at this point.

I know if I am Secretary, I will start charging per page as was suggested to me on this site some time ago.

I wonder if anyone would want to buy us out. At this point I would be willing to sell the building if the members would vote to do so.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

We may need to petition to court for receivership.

I'm not sure you know what receivership is. The court will appoint a local lawyer office to handle things... and charge you for it. The lawyer office will hire property managers, billing people, etc, and charge you for it. If your dues do not cover it, they will raise the dues to whatever is needed. You will have no choice.

In other words.... its not a good thing.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

It is a good thing, but an EXPENSIVE good thing.

It will get y'all 'back on track'.

A good mgmt. co. WILL be expensive in any event.

The receiver will put the HOA on proper operating ground (as per the court).

After y'all have demonstrated that y'all can operate without the receiver the court will return the corp. over to the newly elected BOD.

The members will have learned the lesson the hard way and will probably remain 'good to go' for years.

good luck

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Bonnie,

I'm taking your posting as a way to vent the frustration you are feeling. I do believe that you are aware that receivership is a last resort and, to be honest, I doubt the court would agree to appoint a receiver if there are still volunteers willing to serve.

My suggestion, start knocking on doors and gather support. Not only support to vote the other two off the Board but for others to serve in their place. Perhaps you can have honest talks with the past board members who left and convince them to give it another go if you can get the support to vote the other two off the board.

Change takes time.

My one suggestion, to remove the appearance of impropriety, the husband and wife team should not be both Treasurer and President unless there is a third party (MC, Independent contractor, etc.) tracking the assessments.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveM9 on 02/09/2014 7:29 PM

We may need to petition to court for receivership.

I do have a idea of what receivership is. I know that the court will take over as you mentioned and that our fees will go up. We have been close to this before when there were few Board members. I know receivership should be a last resort but we are getting to that point unless the members would vote to sell the building. Even that would cause more expense for our owner/residents. The thing that might takethe sting off that is the profit from the sale being divided among the members.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/09/2014 8:41 PM
Bonnie,

I'm taking your posting as a way to vent the frustration you are feeling. I do believe that you are aware that receivership is a last resort and, to be honest, I doubt the court would agree to appoint a receiver if there are still volunteers willing to serve.

My suggestion, start knocking on doors and gather support. Not only support to vote the other two off the Board but for others to serve in their place. Perhaps you can have honest talks with the past board members who left and convince them to give it another go if you can get the support to vote the other two off the board.

Change takes time.

My one suggestion, to remove the appearance of impropriety, the husband and wife team should not be both Treasurer and President unless there is a third party (MC, Independent contractor, etc.) tracking the assessments.

At least one member has started a drive to vote the President out. We have asked at least three (probably four or five) people if they would be willing to be on the Board. All but one has said no. Most of the past Board members who have left have left not only due to problems in the community but also due to medical conditions that the stress of being on the Board aggravated. As a senior facility we have a limited number of people able yet alone willing to serve on the Board.

At this time our PM is tracking the assessments and I am also recording them.

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

Do your board members have to be homeowners as well?

And what are you referring to about the secretary charging something?

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

unless the members would vote to sell the building. Even that would cause more expense for our owner/residents. The thing that might takethe sting off that is the profit from the sale being divided among the members.

Is this a co-op? I've never heard of a HOA/Condo being able to sell its building the residents live in. I dont even think it would be legal.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Maybe I missed this.....why not solicit new property management companies for their business? I think very few HOAs can properly operate under a self-managed system. Active communities create too much work for volunteers. Some directors love it but many avoid community service as a result.

Hang in there. The PM needs a break and would rather not have your money than work for you, leading me to believe your hunch is correct (but that the PM is very professional in handling the account cancellation).

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

when all is said and done there are 3 choices:

self manage - take the toric ka-ka and quit whining

mgmt. co. - BOD still needs to function as decision maker, budget, etc.

receiver - $$$$$ but no operational issues, the court takes the toric ka-ka

pick on and quit the whining

or

MOOOOOOVE (as judge judy would say)

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

ooops: pick one (left out the 'e')

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/10/2014 1:40 AM

As a senior facility we have a limited number of people able yet alone willing to serve on the Board.

I have long maintained that condos appeal to those who do not want to be involved in home ownership, making it difficult to find owners willing to be involved in the association. You have added an element that I had not considered before: In a 55+ condo community, even those few willing to become involved may be prevented from doing so by their ill health. Something to consider before buying in a senior development.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

'ill health' includes reduced mental capacity - often unknown to the people it affects

"Don't tell me, This is the way I always did it, Who do you think you are, I'm entitled to ......., I'm on a fixed budget, Why should I pay, What do you mean 'Permit', etc, etc etc.

You have people who can not inflate their tires or operate their TV/Cable remote trying to manage a corporation.

I know, I live amongst and am becoming a member myself of:

THE WALKING DEAD (walking in smaller and smaller circles around the drain)

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 02/10/2014 7:45 AM
when all is said and done there are 3 choices:

self manage - take the toric ka-ka and quit whining

mgmt. co. - BOD still needs to function as decision maker, budget, etc.

receiver - $$$$$ but no operational issues, the court takes the toric ka-ka

pick on and quit the whining

or

MOOOOOOVE (as judge judy would say)

At this point, I would love to MOOOOOOOVE. But I have a mortgage and cannot affort to MOOOOOOOVE.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveM9 on 02/10/2014 6:34 AM

Is this a co-op? I've never heard of a HOA/Condo being able to sell its building the residents live in. I dont even think it would be legal.

No it is not a co-op. Our state law allows us to sell out if at least (I think it is 85%) of the members agree to it. It is so rarely done, I doubt few people know that it can be done.

Any way I talked to our PM tonight and he may consider staying under certain conditions. These conditions are in no way unreasonable in my mind. I do know that considering and actually staying are two separate things, but I sincerely hope he stays.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Our state law allows us to sell out if at least (I think it is 85%) of the members agree to it. It is so rarely done, I doubt few people know that it can be done.

Do you have a web site to reference? I'm curious as to how this could be done.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

At this point, I would love to MOOOOOOOVE. But I have a mortgage and cannot affort to MOOOOOOOVE.

then you purchased more house than you could afford - you did not allow for value fluctuations when you mortgaged your element protection device (house)

poor decision

exactly my point: poor decision makers are running corporations

no offense, just stated bluntly

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 02/11/2014 8:18 AM

At this point, I would love to MOOOOOOOVE. But I have a mortgage and cannot affort to MOOOOOOOVE.

I am not underwater. My condo is valued for more that my mortgage at this point. I just can't pick up and move any more than I could have picked up and moved from my house until I sold it and used the excess for the down payment on the Condo with a little left over. If I do just move, I still need to pay the Association fees and still would be a member of the Association. If I do move, I want to make a clean break, just like I would not sell my house on land contract. I wanted a clean break from the house.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

would it sell tomorrow for $1000.00 ?

for 1,000,000 ?

pick a $ which would sell in 60 days and

moooooove

unless it is easier to whine

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Actually it wouldn't sell tomorrow for $1,000.00 or on million dollars. There is the process of getting it listed ect.
Since I was part of the problem (Just for the fact that I was on the Board) I feel responsible and I don't really want to jump ship just because there is a storm. Although I do think about it at times. The money is just a small part of me not wanting to move. I literally hate to move and try to avoid having to move.

I did talk to our PM and he said he would consider staying with us. What he needed was to not have to deal with our President (who has said she will resign), clear guidelines and there was one other item which I forgot, but I am certain he will remind me if I ask him.

The way we are dealing with Association finances at this time is in my opinion time consuming. We aprove all bills then give the bills to the PM to cut checks to be returned to us for a signature then returned to the PM for mailing and filing. This process has caused us to have a late fee. I would like to see that process streamlined.

The lady who is President at this time also almost got a bookkeeper to resign at one time until the Board agreed that I would be the only contact person for the bookkeeper. Now our pM is our bookkeeper.

I did mention to our PM it seemed to me that our President was just trying to set traps for him and he said he felt like that to him also.

I just wish the other two Board members had not resigned this year. One was due to health and another due to a promise she made to her late husband.

As far as too much house, a person would have to be on or very close to poverty level income for a one bedroom 692 square foot unit to be too much house. I am not on or very close to poverty level income.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoK2 on 02/10/2014 4:43 AM
Do your board members have to be homeowners as well?

And what are you referring to about the secretary charging something?

Yes Board members need to have an ownership interest in a unit.
Last year, I charged the Association for some of the toner I bought but not every toner cardridge as I also use my printer for personal reasons.

Our current PM is charging per page, If I had been doing that last year, it may have made it more acceptable when our PM is doing it.

So instead of charging for cartridges, I would charge just per page used for Association business. When I donate supplies that technically makes my fee larger than it should be and the Assocaiton should by rights pay tax on donated items.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

you may bring an action in a court of law to force the 'president' to adhere to the contractual documents

if you are found correct he will be forced to pay all legal fees

either:

he is wrong and you have taken LEGAL action

or

he is correct and you will learn a lesson

(remember: your neighbors elected him to the board)

in either case stop whining on the internet, but please keep us informed as to the OUTCOME of your actions taken

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

John,
There is no way I am going to bring an action in a court of law against our President. She has done some things that are beneficial to our Association. It is just that (in my opinion) her people skills leave something to be desired. She appears to think that since our PM works for us there is no problem with him spending 4 hours of his Sunday to help us prepare for the annual meeting. The deadline for mailing the notice was Tuesday of that week. In the past couple of years as Secretary, I have made the preparations and had them done well before the deadline. In my opinion she has a difficult time separating her duties from the duties of the Secretary.

We are having an emergency meeting tonight for the purpose of reviewing the PM's performance. I am concerned she will nick pick to get bad items in the minutes. I have prayed that the truth will prevail as there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and the truth.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/12/2014 2:22 PM
I am concerned she will nick pick to get bad items in the minutes.

Actually, the minutes should simply include the following statement:

Board discussed the performance of the property manger. After discussion the Board agreed (or per a vote of x yea x nay) that xyz......

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Bonnie,

Have you tried having a candid conversation with the President? Start first with praise like you posted that she has done some wonderful things for the HOA.

Then state some of your concerns. That you understand that she is very capable of handling the secretarial part of the job but you feel at times that she is encroaching on what are your responsibilities as secretary are.

As far as the PM, suggest that she lighten up on the nit picky stuff. Let her know you think he is doing a great job and should be given more time to prove himself to her.

State that you have concerns about other members stepping up to the plate because of ill health and age of the members of the complex. Bring up the team approach. We are much stronger together as a team.

Human nature being what it is, your approach can make a world of difference. Your tone of voice and facial expressions are also a big part of the communication process.

Good luck to you Bonnie.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/12/2014 2:40 PM

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/12/2014 2:22 PM
I am concerned she will nick pick to get bad items in the minutes.

The Board discussed the performance of the property manager is basically what I want to put in the minutes of this meeting. But she did bring up some good points. I wasn't aware of everything that was going on. Now I need to decide if I want to keep our PM or accept his resignation. It is a hard decision. I see problems I didn't see before.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

I wasn't aware of everything that was going on.

DOH

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 02/12/2014 7:53 PM

I wasn't aware of everything that was going on.

DOH

I am certain her husband knew of the problems she presented at the "emergency" meeting tonight. But I was not aware of any major problems until tonight. I will tell her when she comes to sign checks tomorrow that It would have been easier for me to back her up if I knew what was going on.
Since her and her husband are the only other Board members at this time, I was left out of the loop.
She did tell me that the PM came one Saturday, looked at a leak and then left without doing anything and that she was the person who put a bucket under the leak to catch the water. This is definitely something I want to ask the PM about. I believe our pM took care of the problem the next day or so.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

John this didn't involve homework I was not doing, It involved me being left out of the loop.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

If a director was deliberately left out of the loop any decision made at that meeting would be null and void as the meeting was not properly 'called'.

The directors willfully responsible for another director being out of the loop are guilty of mal-feasance and any resulting damages to the HOA would NOT be covered by DO insurance.

Again, you may seek legal redress on behalf of the association.

Either:

sue directly

or

petition for a receiver

(the court will take said petition from a director VERY seriously)

or (again) quit whining and mooooooooooooooooooooooove

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveM9 on 02/11/2014 7:26 AM

Our state law allows us to sell out if at least (I think it is 85%) of the members agree to it. It is so rarely done, I doubt few people know that it can be done.

Do you have a web site to reference? I'm curious as to how this could be done.

This is from the NE State Statues

76-812. Disposition of property; vote of co-owners required; effect.

Unless otherwise provided in the master deed or bylaws, the co-owners may, by affirmative vote of at least three-fourths, elect to sell or otherwise dispose of the property, or to waive the condominium property regime; Provided, that the individual apartments are unencumbered, or if encumbered, that the creditors in whose behalf the encumbrances are recorded agree to accept as security the undivided portions of the property owned by the debtors. Upon waiver of the regime, the co-owners shall own the property as tenants in common in accordance with their interests as determined by section 76-806.

Any such action shall be binding upon all co-owners and it shall thereupon be the duty of every co-owner to execute and deliver such instruments and to perform all acts as may be necessary.

Source:Laws 1963, c. 429, § 12, p. 1441.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Provided, that the individual apartments are unencumbered, or if encumbered, that the creditors in whose behalf the encumbrances are recorded agree to accept as security the undivided portions of the property owned by the debtors.

good luck with that

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bonnie

I am not nor do I play a lawyer.

The encumbered means the mortgage/note holders would also have to agree. Getting the owners to agree would not be as tough as getting the mortgage/note holders to do so.

Thus I would say getting all to agree does not stand a snow ball's chance in hell of happening.

Of course, I could be wrong.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

this horse's carcass is starting to rot

time for the beating to stop

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 02/13/2014 2:27 PM

good luck with that

You mean "good night."

It's easier to sell and move than to dissolve the HOA by getting mortgage holders involved in approving dissolution. Frankly, it's so remote as to be a non-issue

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