over 10 items on the ballot

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Our President is insisting that the membership vote on (I believe the number is 11) items at our annual meeting.
I have told her repeatedly that this is too many items for the ballot to no avail. The notice of the annual meeting and the proxy ballots have already been mailed. Among the items on the ballot is the member's preference for the thermomstat sitting in the common areas.
I am really not looking forward to this annual meeting. I never have actually looked forward to an annual meeting but the thought of this meeting almost terrifies me as I can foresee what might happen.

One of the votes is to give the Board "permission" to research security cameras. We don't need permission to research this. Also two of or elderly members voiced concern to me that a security camera just at the fron entrance was not going to record other activity in the building. (We have had thefts that began October 2012)

Since some of our elderly members cannot understand (to me a simple concept) the concept of security cameras (plural) how are they ever going to be able to vote on eleven separate items with any level of understanding?
Thanks for any of your thoughts on this matter.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Sounds like the President intends to have every decision needing to be made voted on by the owners.

Sounds to me like a lot of wasted time, effort and money.

Just what might be the possible range of temps. In the common area?

We need to vote on that?

IMO the Board should be able to make some of these calls on their own.

Maybe it's time to find a new President.

Someone willing to do their job.

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Bonnie:
It could be that your President is simply reaching out to get the opinion of owners on these issues. If a mailing is going out for an annual meeting, that's a good time to do it. My guess is most of the community will like the idea. However, he should have said he is seeking opinions, not a "vote" on these issues.
Jeanne

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 02/07/2014 4:51 AM
Sounds like the President intends to have every decision needing to be made voted on by the owners.

Sounds to me like a lot of wasted time, effort and money.

Just what might be the possible range of temps. In the common area?

We need to vote on that?

IMO the Board should be able to make some of these calls on their own.

Maybe it's time to find a new President.

Someone willing to do their job.

Our President is very intelligent and spends a lot of time on the job. But she tries to do the job of other people also. I agree that the Board should be able to make some of these calls on their own. A few months ago some owners complained they didn't know about or have a say on an item. I think this is overreaction. The item was a fine schedule that the Board had been working on for over a year and actions were recorded in minutes that were posted for public viewing.

She has been an assest to cour community in some ways. I know I really do not want to be President but if she is voted out, I will have no choice but to be President. She is to be voted on at the annual meeting. And I have no illusions that people will not complain about my actions if I am President. She is to be voted on at the annual meeting.

The President tries to do the job of Secretary also. As Secretary I should be the one working with our PM on the Proxy Ballots and the Ballots. She is doing this. I have pretty much thrown up my hands in frustration and given up as at this point the only other Board member is her husband. We had five Board members at the beginning of the year, but due to resignations we are down to three. She also approves and signs checks. I do also look at the bills and checks she signs. Her husband title is treasurer.

She checked last weekend to see my available on Sunday to work on the mailings and Proxy Ballots. They needed to be out by Tuesday. I had plans for basically the whole day. If I didn't think she would change almost anything I did (as she has done before), I could have had information to our PM recording Proxy Ballots and Ballots ready a week or so earlier.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

The reason I did not actually start working on the Proxy Ballots and Ballots with our pM is that concern our President would change any work I did which she has done in the past.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

I have told her repeatedly that this is too many items for the ballot to no avail.

I really dont see any issue.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/07/2014 6:32 AM

Posted By JonD1 on 02/07/2014 4:51 AM
Sounds like the President intends to have every decision needing to be made voted on by the owners.

Sounds to me like a lot of wasted time, effort and money.

Just what might be the possible range of temps. In the common area?

We need to vote on that?

IMO the Board should be able to make some of these calls on their own.

Maybe it's time to find a new President.

Someone willing to do their job.

Our President is very intelligent and spends a lot of time on the job. But she tries to do the job of other people also. I agree that the Board should be able to make some of these calls on their own. A few months ago some owners complained they didn't know about or have a say on an item. I think this is overreaction. The item was a fine schedule that the Board had been working on for over a year and actions were recorded in minutes that were posted for public viewing.

She has been an assest to cour community in some ways. I know I really do not want to be President but if she is voted out, I will have no choice but to be President. She is to be voted on at the annual meeting. And I have no illusions that people will not complain about my actions if I am President. She is to be voted on at the annual meeting.

The President tries to do the job of Secretary also. As Secretary I should be the one working with our PM on the Proxy Ballots and the Ballots. She is doing this. I have pretty much thrown up my hands in frustration and given up as at this point the only other Board member is her husband. We had five Board members at the beginning of the year, but due to resignations we are down to three. She also approves and signs checks. I do also look at the bills and checks she signs. Her husband title is treasurer.

She checked last weekend to see my available on Sunday to work on the mailings and Proxy Ballots. They needed to be out by Tuesday. I had plans for basically the whole day. If I didn't think she would change almost anything I did (as she has done before), I could have had information to our PM recording Proxy Ballots and Ballots ready a week or so earlier.

Bonnie,

If, overall, the president is an honest broker, works in good faith and does a favorable job, allow her one meeting to be utterly passive in decision-making, especially since the issues are simply non-controversial. Micro-managers who, at day's end, won't make decisions either are wastes of time as leaders, I agree with you.

ErikaC (Virginia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Bonnie,

Is your Association set up that the actual members "vote" for each officer/director position during your Annual Meeting?

Typically the Annual Meeting, proxy & ballot only "elect" candidates. Officers/Directors are nominated during a regular meeting of the board after the Annual Meeting has occurred.

As for the numerous items on the ballot, are any of these items ones that require the entire membership to vote on before any action is taken?

The only real role the president has for an Annual meeting is to preside over the meeting instruct membership if the meeting is governed by Roberts Rules or Order etc. Your board can opt for the current Secretary to be the official meeting minute taker, but I would not recommend that, it's better to have the Annual meeting minutes be managed by the PM or outside service.

In our Hoa the Secretary's ONLY role is to take minutes of the monthly meetings. The Pres/VP work with the PM on the language for letters to homeowners. As an extra step I always present the "proposed" letters to the entire board for approval, before its mailed out.

Is it possible your current President, Board or Property Manager received criticism from your membership saying they are not involving the homeowners enough?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/07/2014 4:14 AM

Our President is insisting that the membership vote on (I believe the number is 11) items at our annual meeting.. . . I have told her repeatedly that this is too many items for the ballot to no avail.

I would expect a Board as a whole to decide what is and is not brought to the membership for a vote. If this does not happen in your Association, then perhaps it should start happening.

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/07/2014 4:14 AM

The notice of the annual meeting . . . have already been mailed.

Are you saying that things are being added after the notice has been sent?

If this is happening, you need to check your governing document and applicable State laws to see if anything on the ballot needs to be noticed to the membership. If it does, then instead of saying this is too many items, tell the President that the governing documents and/or State law doesn't allow it to be added due to notice requirements and a new meeting will need to be called on a different date or the issue will need a meeting of it's own.

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/07/2014 4:14 AM

the proxy ballots have already been mailed.

OK. What are proxy ballots?

There are proxy designation forms and there are vote by mail ballots. Each have their own purpose. I have never heard of a proxy ballot.

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/07/2014 4:14 AM

I am really not looking forward to this annual meeting.

Bonnie, what is your function at the meeting? If you're the Secretary, I can understand the frustration of taking minutes for a long involved meeting. If you're any other position but the President, heck, sit back an enjoy it. It's the President's meeting to run.

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/07/2014 4:14 AM

Since some of our elderly members cannot understand (to me a simple concept) the concept of security cameras (plural) how are they ever going to be able to vote on eleven separate items with any level of understanding? Thanks for any of your thoughts on this matter.

Well, that is going to depend on how it's presented.

Again, it's the President's meeting to run and typically, it's the President who does the presentation. Sit back and enjoy. You can always say I told you so to the President after the meeting.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Tim,
The major problem at this point as I and others see it is that there are only three Board members due to resignations in 2013. The President and her husband make up a majority of the Board so I have very little say in how things are handled.

I am the Secretary. I wish I could just sit back and relax. Also as a member of the Associaiton, I want to be part of the discussion so other members will know my viewpoint.

the term, "Vote by mail Ballots" sound much better to me. Ever since I have lived here (5 years) the vote by mail ballots have been called either proxies or proxy ballots. I will do my best to get the wording changed for our next meeting.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Typically the Annual Meeting, proxy & ballot only "elect" candidates. Officers/Directors are nominated during a regular meeting of the board after the Annual Meeting has occurred.

The Directors are nominated either before or at the annual meeting and vote on at the annual meeting.

The officers are chosen by the Board at a meeting immediatley following the annual meeting per our documents.

So for our PM and the Board members this is going to be on long evening.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/08/2014 3:59 AM

the term, "Vote by mail Ballots" sound much better to me. Ever since I have lived here (5 years) the vote by mail ballots have been called either proxies or proxy ballots.

Well, if your governing documents authorize voting by mail, then there is no need for proxies (as the member has voted on the issues to be voted on). The returned ballots (which should only be opened at the meeting) would count toward any quorum requirement.

If your Association does not authorize voting by mail, you would not send out ballots. If proxies are authorized, you might send out a general or directed proxy Representative form. Directed proxies will often look like ballots but they do not count as a ballot. A Ballot would need to be issued and filled out for every proxy form received.

ErikaC (Virginia)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Bonnie,

I'm not trying to mince words, what and how does your HOA define a "proxy ballot"?

In our HOA, these are two separate documents.

The (instructional) proxy is mailed with the Notice of the Annual Meeting. We use proxies for the following: establish a quorum, vote for candidates (announced candidates & leave room for write-in), etc in lieu of a member not attending the annual meeting in person.

The "ballot" is what members are handed upon in-person attendance of the Annual Meeting. If a member has already turned in a completed proxy, we pull their proxy out and deem it void. That way that members's vote is not duplicated.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

The "ballot" is what members are handed upon in-person attendance of the Annual Meeting. If a member has already turned in a completed proxy, we pull their proxy out and deem it void. That way that members's vote is not duplicated.

We do the same thing so that a member's vote is not dublicated. Last year we indiciated by proxy on the signature line.

Since our President is taking charge of almost everthing this year (We had a different President last year) I don't know if we will write by proxy on the signature line or not. But however she decides to handle it, we will take precautions so that a member's vote is not counted twice.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 02/08/2014 9:21 AM

Last year we indiciated by proxy on the signature line.

On the sign-in sheet, we also indicate if the member was represented by proxy and have the proxy sign for the member.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I'm trying to understand if your members may vote by absentee ballots/vote by mail. Or, if they do not attend, they only may assign a proxy? We may vote by mail in in CA, but I don't know about NE. Can you clear this up for me, Bonnie?

In our HOA, a few times over the years we've asked for members' opinions or "an advisory vote" on the types of examples you provided. And other matters, e.g., post paint odors on a wall for members to vote on which one they prefer to paint a meeting room.

I'm also wondering how the votes will be counted. Your HOA, probably has a minimum number of valid votes either in person or by proxy (it sounds like) to elect directors.

But will your board just freeze and not act if, say, only a few owners vote on the security cameras topic and the majority of that number votes against the Board even researching them??

I can see where the president might be wanting to be more inclusive of owners. But the Board's job IS to make decisions. Asking owners to vote on so many small matters seems almost like this president is shirking her duty.

What's your PM's opinion about all of this?? I know that you like him, but that you feared the president wanted to fire him.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Carol, I would have to do some more studying to answer you questions about State Law but I do believe our PM would have let us know if we were violating state Law. I have read and reread our State Laws but don't have answers handy at this point.

But I can tell you what our PM thinks about it. He also thinks there are too many items to be voted on.

Most of the members I have talked to also think there are too many items to be voted on. One member called me to express her concern about this.

I just want this annual meeting to be over.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

I will weight in with my two cents.

Based on the OP initial post, it seems that ALL of these "items to be voted on" should be on a survey. Either send a survey by mail and/or put on website, if any. This also should have been the strong advise from the PM.

Having the owners vote on specific topics just gives the decision makers some sort of validation.

Annual meetings are held yearly to 1) vote for directors, 2) Discuss the state of the community, 3) having directors elect officers, 4) possibly vote on something required specifically by the governing documents and where a quorum of members are needed to be present, in person, by ballot, or by proxy.

What the thermostat should be set on in the common, give me a break.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Richard,

I agree with you 100%. But our President has told me as long as she in in the position of President we are doing things her way. I am certain those are not the exact words she used, but that is the message I got from her.

Other than too many items to vote for at the annual meeting there are other items I disagree with her and her husband. But basically it is me against the couple.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Well, perhaps this can be used to get others to serve on the board and shorten the length of future meetings.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Bonnie, from your previous posts, you seem like a very sincere person who wants what's best for your HOA.

Per Tim, do you think you can round up two more people to serve on your Board? I think you said it should be five people.

And in my opinion, Richard is right. Annual meetings aren't for such minor items. But he probably is a much more experienced PM than yours, whom you've said, I think, is young & new in the business.