Hard Copies VS PC Files

There is another thread discussing having to pay to view files, and I am curious as to how the advances of technology has screwed the hoa homeowner when everything is becoming digitized.

When our manager was last asked about viewing some documents, his reply was, due to security reasons no one was allowed access to the computers. So he was asked to provide the hard copies instead and his response was that all files were scanned and then shredded. So now because of their decision to digitizw and shred, we will be forced to pay for copies.

Wouldn't you consider that to be a problem?

What happened to CD's? Can't they provide the information on CD's for the owners to view and pay for? I would expect to pay for a CD copy especially with all the work involved in providing that option. Plus I would feel safer having it on CD so that if we changed MC we would have our own separate copies not depending on waiting on the MC to return or make them available.

Scanning old/new documents takes lots of time, effort, and the right equipment/skill. So if you don't have an MC, you have to find someone to volunteer or pay to scan in these documents. Plus have to buy the scanning equipment, CD's, and other necessary supplies if needed. I can see a fee for copies being charged then but should be equal to how much the HOA paid in their efforts. It should not be just a 'random number" pulled from the sky. It should reflect more to the actual expenses involved in reproduction. A HOA is a non-profit and this would just be a "set-off" cost from spending from it's budget. I would still use the dividing number of the overall costs by the number of members. Even if the other members never use or request the option. They all have equal rights to do it. Which means all of them at once could get together and request separate copies at once. It's about the fairest way I would charge for copies even with hard copies.

What Steve said. Digital makes it EASIER to provide copies not harder.

Unless, of course, you feel the need to black out parts of documents.

Real businesses (and a larger HOA should be run like this) have a disaster and backup plan. If all your documents are digital you would have multiple rotating backups with at least one always kept off-site.

Depends on how its organized. I keep every PDF in a single folder, with sub folders. I simply need to copy that one root folder and I'm done. There is no need to me to "find" anything. If that person wants a particular document, its on the CD.... somewhere. Let them "find" it on their own time.

I will echo what Steve and Larry have said.

Having started a management company within the past year, it was imperative that I start with the best of technology right from the word go. So I made sure I had the best HOA software where digitized files flow effortless.

Every document that comes into my company is scanned as soon as it comes in. Each client has two main folders on a server. One for legal docs, delinquencies, litigation, executive minutes and so on, while the other is general for everything else. Each client is provided a website, free of charge, either they maintain or we do.

During a transition period, each new associations files are reviewed and documents that need to be tossed are tossed, utilizing a sound record retention policy. After that, all files are scanned and organized, one time. The rest is routine maintenance.

If a homeowner asks for records, they either have the website and if that doesn't suffice, then a ten cent CD is burned, with all the general folder information, and either mailed or dropped off at a meeting.

Electronic (digitized) files are typically allowed to be maintained provided that they are able to be reproduced into hard copies (printed). I prefer pdf files when digitizing.

If they are digitized, then the files are easily e-mailed to any requester.

Your Association should have adopted a file retention policy. If not, they should adopt one now. Ours has us keep hard copies for 3 years and digitized copies forever.

Actually, the IRS recommends different retention requirements based on what was filed.

See: IRS web page for businesses: How long should I keep records?

Jo,

I was referring to your comment about the IRS requirement of 7 years.

The IRS won't address anything about HOA records. That page I provided a link to addresses record retention for corporations (as they pertain to the IRS). COA/HOA's are also (typically) incorporated. Therefore, they should comply with the IRS requirements for their financial records which, depending on the issue, has time frames from 2 years to indefinite.

Please note, even on that page from the IRS it says:

"When your records are no longer needed for tax purposes, do not discard them until you check to see if you have to keep them longer for other purposes. "

The BBB has a pretty good list of time frames.
See: How Long Do You Need To Keep Specific Documents?

As always, check applicable State statutes (COA/HOA and corporate) to see if your State has any specifications on records retention.

CDs can also get expensive and they don't last as long as one might think. A few years ago, I attended a seminar on document retention sponsored by our state library and learned the average CD lasts about 5 years on average. If you want the type that can keep things forever and a day, there are CDs that last about 20-50 years, but they're expensive and you usually have to special order them (not something you'd see at the typical Radio Shack or similar store).

He also said that despite CDs, flash drives and even cloud computing, it seems we're generating more paper copies than ever because people like holding something in their hands (so much for technology - remember when all of this was supposed to render us a paperless society?!)

I like the idea most of you have suggested -put the documents on a website and let people download them as needed. If you need more than that, perhaps the homeowner could either provide his/her own CD (if they prefer to use that) or a flash drive

Allow me to play the Devil's Advocate here.

First, I truly believe that all records/information should be available to each and every owner.

Allow me to repeat myself:

First, I truly believe that all records/information should be available to each and every owner.

The question becomes what does it cost to provide such?

It is not simply the cost of a CD.

It is not simply provide all "digital" copies of everything.

There are costs involved. All I am saying, is associations deserve to recover their cost (whatever they be) to provide such.

Hell yes, provide all to all. Feel Good Point #1.

Do not look at cost. Stupid Point #1.

Simply a cost issue to me.

Yes, it is simply the cost of 1 cd. $0.59 cents

If a mgmt company or HOA cannot burn a cd with all HOA records in 5 minutes, they are doing it wrong. They have no idea how to manage digital records and must learn or be taught the correct way.

Digital is definitely the way to go.

Might I suggest that any HOA's planning to go "all digital" that you seriously consider adopting a "watermarking" policy for your documents. Our HOA uses the following watermark on our documents: "confidential, property of _____hoa, not for public distribution. Document requested by _____homeowner zxy date"

That way our HOA knows our documents are somewhat safe and it would discourage a homeowner from posting the private records of the HOA on a public website.