Invalidation of a Rule

Started by LindaC3 • 16 replies • 1547 views

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LindaC3
Posts: 508

Posted:

Good Day Group--- Some information has just been brought to my attention with regards to A Rule that was enacted by our BOD at last month meeting..... I am sitting on the Appeals Committee for violations concerning parking of an Rv at a neighbors lot..... While doing some intense background search into the RULE it was always believed to be based on the fact that NUMEROUS MEMBERS had filed written complaints to the management.... Now it has been discovered that NO SUCH LETTERS exist.... Management today is scrambling to get these letters written by someone My question to the group is---- If the Adoption of a Rule was based on false and misleading information can this Rule be revoked or nullified and another opportunity for the ENTIRE Membership be granted to have input into the Rule ?? Thanks for all your input as always LindaC

RogerB
Posts: 4,986

Posted:

Linda, it can be changed by the same group which was authorized to create it. A CC&R amendment would require all owners; whereas a Resolution can be altered by the Board. You can not simply say the Rule was based on false information and therefore it is not valid.

GregH1
Posts: 3

Posted:

If I think a rule in my HOA is idiotic can we vote to change with all owners, if it's that simple this will be easy. Let me tell you the rule.

It is stated that hot water leaks only will be paid by HOA since the 8 units are using 1 common hot water tank. This is fine! the problem however is we have 1 isolation valve between water meter at street and building which shuts all 8 units off. So naturally if water is leaking in one unit as has happened numerous times all water is off to all units, fortunately they all have been hot water leaks so far, but first leak I had to finance repairs for tenant because he could not afford to make repairs. Can't wait until all water is off due to cold water leak!
This rule is not fair, if tenant cannot afford to repair leak in unit all water is off indefinately. CC&R must be change to cover repairs since water isolation valve is common to all 8 units. I'm sure we can get this changed if it only takes a unanimous vote. If I'm wrong please drirect me.
Thanks
Greg Heald (HOA president)

WilliamT
Posts: 480

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GregH1 on 04/06/2007 6:20 AM
If I think a rule in my HOA is idiotic can we vote to change with all owners, if it's that simple this will be easy. Let me tell you the rule.

It is stated that hot water leaks only will be paid by HOA since the 8 units are using 1 common hot water tank. This is fine! the problem however is we have 1 isolation valve between water meter at street and building which shuts all 8 units off. So naturally if water is leaking in one unit as has happened numerous times all water is off to all units, fortunately they all have been hot water leaks so far, but first leak I had to finance repairs for tenant because he could not afford to make repairs. Can't wait until all water is off due to cold water leak!
This rule is not fair, if tenant cannot afford to repair leak in unit all water is off indefinately. CC&R must be change to cover repairs since water isolation valve is common to all 8 units. I'm sure we can get this changed if it only takes a unanimous vote. If I'm wrong please drirect me.
Thanks
Greg Heald (HOA president)

The board of directors vote on the Rules; not the members of the association.

However, remember that the Rules are only used to explain or clarify the CC&R's. A Rule may not add to or subtract from them.

Therefore, you must first check the CC&R's to see what it says about this issue. Then you as president can write a rule that is in concert with the particular covenant in question, and present it to the other board members for review and comment.

What I would do is email the draft to the board members, or have it sent out with the monthly board pac and ask the board to review the language and be prepared to debate, amend if necessary, and vote on the new Rule at the next meeting.

BradD2
Posts: 415

Posted:

Linda, it is unfortunate but I think the answer is no that does not invalidate the rule. It is still enforceable. I would bring it up in an annual meeting when you have a lot of members present.

LindaC3
Posts: 508

Posted:

Brad--- It makes our duty as the Appeals Comm....difficult as we feel the Rule was passed based on false information...... We have been told by the BOD to uphold the violation or we can and will be replaced by Members who will...... Also told by a BOD Member that we need to remember people who break the rules need to be punished.....Wow..what a statement to make in an open BOD session....People were shocked !!!!! I didnt realize we all were still in grade school and we needed to punish our neighbors............ Shame......Linda C

HAPPY EASTER !!!!

PaulM
Posts: 1,325

Posted:

Yes, Linda, those Boards who speak to residents as if they were in grade school as if the Board is the teacher/punisher. This is precisely what is ruining the reputation of 'community living'. When will Boards learn to treat their neighbors with respect just as they want to be treated. It is what will kill the 'community concept' and our spirit in the process. I am seeing it in ours as we speak.

BradD2
Posts: 415

Posted:

Linda, were you elected or appointed?

GregH1
Posts: 3

Posted:

I'm not sure. Probably elected. I was not present at meeting nor did I know I was being considered as President. Was told by my nieghbor who was at meeting it was agreed upon by all that I should be president! So not sure, answer may be in CC&R which I am reviewing. Thanks!

GregH1
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thanks for your reply will investigate further using your comment.

LindaC3
Posts: 508

Posted:

Brad-- I was reappointed to the Appeal Board due to my service last year-- I am what the BOD considered a fair person-- able to weigh both sides...I also remove the "personal" equation ....But this time they (BOD) I feel have overstepped their boundaries in INSISTING that we ( Appeal Commm) uphold the violation or WE WILL BE REPLACED.........A subliminal threat I do percieve....After doing some more questioning around about the RULE I have learned that a new BOD Member was "threatened" by a OLD BOD Member-- not age wise but tenure ---that HE WILL VOTE for this rule or this BOD Member will interfere with his ability to make a living .We are an Equestrian Community and the NEW BOD is a farrier.....I trust the New BOD with my life..I have known him for years..the OLD BOD is a power hungry control freak...Would I have cocktails with him ? No-- Am I am polite to him ? Yes- very much so-- after all he is my neighbor and I respect that...

I had heard stories that other BOD Members resigned when this person was on the BOD because of violations of the Sunshine Law here in Florida..I always thought they were just that -- Stories...Now I am not so sure..Now that I have this information I feel that the RULE was voted on with false information and I feel thus makes the rule invalid...Our Apppeals hearing happens BEFORE the next BOD meeting...What's a girl to do ??

That's why I am asking the group for some input with this matter.... The icing on the cake is that the 2 homeowners who are scheduled to appear before us have also been served with a letter that they ( HOA ) are placing a lien on the property for the unpaid violation.... They called last nite all upset about this notice.... I explained not to fret as fines are not allowed in Florida to be alienable thing.....He feels because they mentioned "LAWYER" it must be so... When I went to look at their monthly bill....They are paid up on all monthly assessments....But the lumped together the fines on their total bill and say they are 90 days so turning over for collection and lien....What a mess...... I calmly explained that ONLY MONTHLY ASSESSMENTS can be filed for liens in florida....The office letter states differenty...The only reason they have not paid the fines is that they are hoping the Appeal Comm.. will overturn the violation fine and then he would not recieve back any $$$ he has paid.......... Sorry for the rant.......LindaC

PaulM
Posts: 1,325

Posted:

Linda,
There have been many posts confirming that adoption/creation of a 'Rule' by the BOD, Committee, or any group, CAN ONLY expand or define or make more clear what is ALREADY STATED and INTENDED in the covenant docs. Perhaps rather than trying to define whether the rule was based on invalid letters, you may want to clearly define if the Rule itself coincides with the docs. or does the Rule oppose them.

Has the Appeals Comm. been established to give recommendations to the Board or to have the authority to make the decision/s? If only recos, you have done that, however, the BOD still has the authority to deny the reco and proceed as they choose.

Further, it has been previously stated by posters that a Rule can be created by the BOD (based on docs only) without member vote. However, if the BOD, with their Rule, wants to ADD something NEW to the covenant, it certainly will require member vote to be official.

PaulM
Posts: 1,325

Posted:

Linda:
This is what the focus of your effort is to be applied to: "violations concerning parking of an Rv at a neighbors lot...". What do your docs state?
and is the neighbor actually in violation against these?

LindaC3
Posts: 508

Posted:

PaulM---- The rule itself is on conflict with the Deed Restrictions ........... The Commitee does have the final say even if it conflicts with the BOD... But all is moot at this point.... The 2 alleged violators have retained counsel .... pulled their appeal and are in the process of filing for mediation with the State of Florida...... This will put this matter to rest once and for all....... Thanks for all your input LINDAC

BradD2
Posts: 415

Posted:

Linda, you might want to organize a recall of the director that you have indicated is trying to use extortion. FS 836.05 says:

836.05 Threats; extortion.--Whoever, either verbally or by a written or printed communication, maliciously threatens to accuse another of any crime or offense, or by such communication maliciously threatens an injury to the person, property or reputation of another, or maliciously threatens to expose another to disgrace, or to expose any secret affecting another, or to impute any deformity or lack of chastity to another, with intent thereby to extort money or any pecuniary advantage whatsoever, or with intent to compel the person so threatened, or any other person, to do any act or refrain from doing any act against his or her will, shall be guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Threatening to ruins someone's business or make it hard for him to earn a living seems consistent with this felony. It is punishable up to 15 years.

LindaC3
Posts: 508

Posted:

Brad-- I hear ya....If only it were that simple.... These folks out here have been living in a Board induced coma for years,,,,They think everything they say or do is Gospel...... They believe every word that comes out of their mouths... I am in shock that this is really happening..... This particular BOD Member is also an attorney who told the NEW BOD MEMBERS that Fla State Statutes DO NOT apply to our HOA.... He stated that we are a Club and not subject to these laws..........Of course I want you to know that the "newbies" are awe struck by this guy....This is the same BOD who had brought a Deputy in here to live in a mobile home and use radar to stop and intimidate members for speeding... AGAINST THE LAW.........That Deputy has since been fired for having sex while in duty with a known local lady of the night...... We will just the member who is filing for mediation bring up all these points when they go for their hearing.... Such a shame that we all can't learn to live together without so much friction !!!! LindaC

BradD2
Posts: 415

Posted:

You can always involve the Attorney General. Nothing wakes up a lawyer like a letter from him.

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