KarenC3 (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Need a HOA Lawyer in Florida
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Need a HOA Lawyer in Florida
Started by KarenC3 • 12 replies • 2005 views
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GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posts: 829
Posted:
Karen:
Google Lawyers in Florida and narrow your search to HOA attorney's. Or you can contact your local Chapter of CAI and get some referrals. Good Luck.
Google Lawyers in Florida and narrow your search to HOA attorney's. Or you can contact your local Chapter of CAI and get some referrals. Good Luck.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You need to get a lawyer that deals with CONTRACTUAL laws. Avoid Real Estate attorneys. Your dealing with a CONTRACT when your dealing with your HOA. CC&R's work more like contracts.
Remember suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So be careful!
Remember suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So be careful!
Former HOA President
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
Try Clayton & McCulloh. http://www.clayton-mcculloh.com:80/
We have considered using them when the need arises; it just hasn't yet.
We have considered using them when the need arises; it just hasn't yet.
JimR4 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Karen, you may want to consider narrowing your choice to attorneys who
deal with homeownes/condo association, exclusively, i.e., their field of expertise.
deal with homeownes/condo association, exclusively, i.e., their field of expertise.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
The one I posted just does HOA related law.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/06/2007 2:26 PM
You need to get a lawyer that deals with CONTRACTUAL laws. Avoid Real Estate attorneys. Your dealing with a CONTRACT when your dealing with your HOA. CC&R's work more like contracts.
Remember suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So be careful!
You need to get a lawyer that deals with CONTRACTUAL laws. Avoid Real Estate attorneys. Your dealing with a CONTRACT when your dealing with your HOA. CC&R's work more like contracts.
Remember suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So be careful!
I disagree with Melissa. Neither of those two types of attorney is usually experienced in HOA matters. Get an attorney who deals exclusively with HOA matters if possible.
RichardP1 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Queston if I may to the learned ones.
I am on the advisory committee of our HOA in Polk County. We have requested some fundamental information from our current board / manager but they are stalling us and have been since January.
The information we are looking for is the total number of homes closed on the development,
The amount of dues outstanding in respect of HOA payments
The number of homes delinquent.
Unfortunately, we have been strung along and we are still not getting this information that we believe will be fundamental to our work during the transition of the HOA from Developer to owners. We assess that they are about 85% sold so, the 90% mark approached rapidly.
We feel disadvantaged because we will have a tremendous amount of information to assimilate and no time in which to do it.
The question
Is there a requirement for the developer (and site manager) to furnish us with this information.
Does the developer have to demonstrate "audited accounts" if the threshold in FL Statute 720 has been reached.
Sorry for the disjointed questions.
Best regards and thanks in anticipation of your help.
Richard Prior
I am on the advisory committee of our HOA in Polk County. We have requested some fundamental information from our current board / manager but they are stalling us and have been since January.
The information we are looking for is the total number of homes closed on the development,
The amount of dues outstanding in respect of HOA payments
The number of homes delinquent.
Unfortunately, we have been strung along and we are still not getting this information that we believe will be fundamental to our work during the transition of the HOA from Developer to owners. We assess that they are about 85% sold so, the 90% mark approached rapidly.
We feel disadvantaged because we will have a tremendous amount of information to assimilate and no time in which to do it.
The question
Is there a requirement for the developer (and site manager) to furnish us with this information.
Does the developer have to demonstrate "audited accounts" if the threshold in FL Statute 720 has been reached.
Sorry for the disjointed questions.
Best regards and thanks in anticipation of your help.
Richard Prior
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
I am not very familiar with FS 720.307 as our association and all others I have dealth with were already turned over. I will post the contents of it here and you can see if it applies to you:
FS 720.307 says:
720.307 Transition of association control in a community.--With respect to homeowners' associations:
(1) Members other than the developer are entitled to elect at least a majority of the members of the board of directors of the homeowners' association when the earlier of the following events occurs:
(a) Three months after 90 percent of the parcels in all phases of the community that will ultimately be operated by the homeowners' association have been conveyed to members; or
(b) Such other percentage of the parcels has been conveyed to members, or such other date or event has occurred, as is set forth in the governing documents in order to comply with the requirements of any governmentally chartered entity with regard to the mortgage financing of parcels.
For purposes of this section, the term "members other than the developer" shall not include builders, contractors, or others who purchase a parcel for the purpose of constructing improvements thereon for resale.
(2) The developer is entitled to elect at least one member of the board of directors of the homeowners' association as long as the developer holds for sale in the ordinary course of business at least 5 percent of the parcels in all phases of the community. After the developer relinquishes control of the homeowners' association, the developer may exercise the right to vote any developer-owned voting interests in the same manner as any other member, except for purposes of reacquiring control of the homeowners' association or selecting the majority of the members of the board of directors.
(3) At the time the members are entitled to elect at least a majority of the board of directors of the homeowners' association, the developer shall, at the developer's expense, within no more than 90 days deliver the following documents to the board:
(a) All deeds to common property owned by the association.
(b) The original of the association's declarations of covenants and restrictions.
(c) A certified copy of the articles of incorporation of the association.
(d) A copy of the bylaws.
(e) The minute books, including all minutes.
(f) The books and records of the association.
(g) Policies, rules, and regulations, if any, which have been adopted.
(h) Resignations of directors who are required to resign because the developer is required to relinquish control of the association.
(i) The financial records of the association from the date of incorporation through the date of turnover.
(j) All association funds and control thereof.
(k) All tangible property of the association.
(l) A copy of all contracts which may be in force with the association as one of the parties.
(m) A list of the names and addresses and telephone numbers of all contractors, subcontractors, or others in the current employ of the association.
(n) Any and all insurance policies in effect.
(o) Any permits issued to the association by governmental entities.
(p) Any and all warranties in effect.
(q) A roster of current homeowners and their addresses and telephone numbers and section and lot numbers.
(r) Employment and service contracts in effect.
(s) All other contracts in effect to which the association is a party.
(4) This section does not apply to a homeowners' association in existence on the effective date of this act, or to a homeowners' association, no matter when created, if such association is created in a community that is included in an effective development-of-regional-impact development order as of the effective date of this act, together with any approved modifications thereof.
Of note also is Florida Statute 720.303.4 and it says:
5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.--The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community. If the association has a photocopy machine available where the records are maintained, it must provide parcel owners with copies on request during the inspection if the entire request is limited to no more than 25 pages.
(a) The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection.
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.
(c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, records to be inspected, and manner of inspections, but may not impose a requirement that a parcel owner demonstrate any proper purpose for the inspection, state any reason for the inspection, or limit a parcel owner's right to inspect records to less than one 8-hour business day per month. The association may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including, without limitation, the costs of copying. The association may charge up to 50 cents per page for copies made on the association's photocopier. If the association does not have a photocopy machine available where the records are kept, or if the records requested to be copied exceed 25 pages in length, the association may have copies made by an outside vendor and may charge the actual cost of copying. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members. Notwithstanding the provisions of this paragraph, the following records shall not be accessible to members or parcel owners:
1. Any record protected by the lawyer-client privilege as described in s. 90.502 and any record protected by the work-product privilege, including, but not limited to, any record prepared by an association attorney or prepared at the attorney's express direction which reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the association and was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings or which was prepared in anticipation of imminent civil or criminal litigation or imminent adversarial administrative proceedings until the conclusion of the litigation or adversarial administrative proceedings.
2. Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a parcel.
3. Disciplinary, health, insurance, and personnel records of the association's employees.
4. Medical records of parcel owners or community residents.
If you have proof that you sent them a request and that 10 business days has passed then you might be able to sue them in small claims court for $500 per item they did not turn over. Showing this statute and your requests might speed things up a bit.
FS 720.307 says:
720.307 Transition of association control in a community.--With respect to homeowners' associations:
(1) Members other than the developer are entitled to elect at least a majority of the members of the board of directors of the homeowners' association when the earlier of the following events occurs:
(a) Three months after 90 percent of the parcels in all phases of the community that will ultimately be operated by the homeowners' association have been conveyed to members; or
(b) Such other percentage of the parcels has been conveyed to members, or such other date or event has occurred, as is set forth in the governing documents in order to comply with the requirements of any governmentally chartered entity with regard to the mortgage financing of parcels.
For purposes of this section, the term "members other than the developer" shall not include builders, contractors, or others who purchase a parcel for the purpose of constructing improvements thereon for resale.
(2) The developer is entitled to elect at least one member of the board of directors of the homeowners' association as long as the developer holds for sale in the ordinary course of business at least 5 percent of the parcels in all phases of the community. After the developer relinquishes control of the homeowners' association, the developer may exercise the right to vote any developer-owned voting interests in the same manner as any other member, except for purposes of reacquiring control of the homeowners' association or selecting the majority of the members of the board of directors.
(3) At the time the members are entitled to elect at least a majority of the board of directors of the homeowners' association, the developer shall, at the developer's expense, within no more than 90 days deliver the following documents to the board:
(a) All deeds to common property owned by the association.
(b) The original of the association's declarations of covenants and restrictions.
(c) A certified copy of the articles of incorporation of the association.
(d) A copy of the bylaws.
(e) The minute books, including all minutes.
(f) The books and records of the association.
(g) Policies, rules, and regulations, if any, which have been adopted.
(h) Resignations of directors who are required to resign because the developer is required to relinquish control of the association.
(i) The financial records of the association from the date of incorporation through the date of turnover.
(j) All association funds and control thereof.
(k) All tangible property of the association.
(l) A copy of all contracts which may be in force with the association as one of the parties.
(m) A list of the names and addresses and telephone numbers of all contractors, subcontractors, or others in the current employ of the association.
(n) Any and all insurance policies in effect.
(o) Any permits issued to the association by governmental entities.
(p) Any and all warranties in effect.
(q) A roster of current homeowners and their addresses and telephone numbers and section and lot numbers.
(r) Employment and service contracts in effect.
(s) All other contracts in effect to which the association is a party.
(4) This section does not apply to a homeowners' association in existence on the effective date of this act, or to a homeowners' association, no matter when created, if such association is created in a community that is included in an effective development-of-regional-impact development order as of the effective date of this act, together with any approved modifications thereof.
Of note also is Florida Statute 720.303.4 and it says:
5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.--The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community. If the association has a photocopy machine available where the records are maintained, it must provide parcel owners with copies on request during the inspection if the entire request is limited to no more than 25 pages.
(a) The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection.
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.
(c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, records to be inspected, and manner of inspections, but may not impose a requirement that a parcel owner demonstrate any proper purpose for the inspection, state any reason for the inspection, or limit a parcel owner's right to inspect records to less than one 8-hour business day per month. The association may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including, without limitation, the costs of copying. The association may charge up to 50 cents per page for copies made on the association's photocopier. If the association does not have a photocopy machine available where the records are kept, or if the records requested to be copied exceed 25 pages in length, the association may have copies made by an outside vendor and may charge the actual cost of copying. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members. Notwithstanding the provisions of this paragraph, the following records shall not be accessible to members or parcel owners:
1. Any record protected by the lawyer-client privilege as described in s. 90.502 and any record protected by the work-product privilege, including, but not limited to, any record prepared by an association attorney or prepared at the attorney's express direction which reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the association and was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings or which was prepared in anticipation of imminent civil or criminal litigation or imminent adversarial administrative proceedings until the conclusion of the litigation or adversarial administrative proceedings.
2. Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a parcel.
3. Disciplinary, health, insurance, and personnel records of the association's employees.
4. Medical records of parcel owners or community residents.
If you have proof that you sent them a request and that 10 business days has passed then you might be able to sue them in small claims court for $500 per item they did not turn over. Showing this statute and your requests might speed things up a bit.
RichardP1 (Florida)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Hi Brad.
Thanks for this. We are aware of FL 720 and have had to use this in the past as again, there were delays in getting stuff to us.
The difference here (being a dumb Brit I assume it is different) is that we are asking for information that is not necessarily covered in 720.
The number of homes closed COULD be important to us as the committee but not to an individual owner. They do not seem to have a section in 720 that covers this.
The amount due to the association in late dues SHOULD be included in the financial statements but again, the budget methodology is so poor that we would not be able to tell.
How many homes are delinquent in their dues? This again is something that we feel they should have.
None of the information we are requesting is unusual and should therefore be easily available.
The committee does not really want to go down the legal route as we do need to work with them (we will control the HOA but they will have to be involved) in the future.
I have got some good info from "regensis.net" but again it does not cover the specifics.
Thanks again for your help and advice.
Best regards
Richard
Thanks for this. We are aware of FL 720 and have had to use this in the past as again, there were delays in getting stuff to us.
The difference here (being a dumb Brit I assume it is different) is that we are asking for information that is not necessarily covered in 720.
The number of homes closed COULD be important to us as the committee but not to an individual owner. They do not seem to have a section in 720 that covers this.
The amount due to the association in late dues SHOULD be included in the financial statements but again, the budget methodology is so poor that we would not be able to tell.
How many homes are delinquent in their dues? This again is something that we feel they should have.
None of the information we are requesting is unusual and should therefore be easily available.
The committee does not really want to go down the legal route as we do need to work with them (we will control the HOA but they will have to be involved) in the future.
I have got some good info from "regensis.net" but again it does not cover the specifics.
Thanks again for your help and advice.
Best regards
Richard
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
So don't ask for the numbers, ask for the details and give them 10 days per FS 720... You can calculate the numbers off of that.
Ask for copies of the estopel letters, ask for copies of the late notices and the liens on file and ask for the details on the accounts receivables.
Ask for copies of the estopel letters, ask for copies of the late notices and the liens on file and ask for the details on the accounts receivables.
JohnH10 (Kansas)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
The number of sold is a valid request because it would be needed to know who has paid the required dues. The list of who has paid and not paid are accounting records
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
If the Association is already been turned over to the developer the number sold has no bearing on the number of people that would be paying dues. That is just a turn over of existing owners.
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