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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
In my opinion we have an excellent PM. He is a young man who started his own business a few years ago.

The problem is our Prsident (Who may read this).

One of the jobs of our cleaning company is to clean lint from under our dryes in the wash room. Well I came home one day and found the President cleaning the lint from under the dryers. She told me that she told our PM he was doing a bad job because he had not made certain the cleaning crew had done this. Then she told me we may not keep him.
Our PM was going to meet with the cleaning supervisor, but the cleaning supervisor's wife was having surgery and they couldn't meet for a while. I am wondering how a nurse can have such lack of compassion.

If he goes (which I don't want him to) most of the daily business of the condominium such as making bank deposits, recording accounts receivable and accounts payable, plus all the daily problems of this 43 unit building will fall back on my shoulders.
The President has two full time jobs (three if you count being President)
Now I just realized our bookkeeper will be gone too and I am certainly not a bookkeeping.

Her husband, who is also on the Board, does not live on site. (We are hurting for people able and willing to be on the Board.)

Right now the Board consist of her and her husband and me. Not a good mix I know and I think she knows also. I need guts to stand up to her and her husband. When I first got on the Board, I felt things were too Loosy Goosy and now I think the pendulum has swung the other way.

Thanks for letting me rant.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Bonnie,

Serving on a board does not obligate one to take on the tasks that you describe. The board's job is to hire those who can perform those tasks. If two thirds of the board do not wish to hire someone then let them take on the work themselves. You have no obligation to the other board members to cover up their refusal to do their jobs.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/25/2014 3:38 AM
Bonnie,

Serving on a board does not obligate one to take on the tasks that you describe. The board's job is to hire those who can perform those tasks. If two thirds of the board do not wish to hire someone then let them take on the work themselves. You have no obligation to the other board members to cover up their refusal to do their jobs.

The problem is we were self managed From our annual meeting month in 2010 to October 1, 2013 when we hired our current PM. Since we were self managed we had to do those tasks. The current Board members were not on the Board in 2010. We just inherited the self management. If our excellent PM quits which he can do per the time frame of the contract, that puts the responsibilty on the Board until we hire someone else. And believe me I do not want to do those tasks.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Bonnie,

I do not think you grasp the concept of self-management.

Self-management does not create an obligation for the directors to personally keep the books, unplug toilets, shovel snow, or mow the lawn. Your job as director remains to hire those who can perform those tasks. Self-management just means that those people work directly for your association instead of working for a management company.

If the other two directors do not wish to keep your PM you have no obligation to pick the pieces. Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decision-making. If they try to foist some of these duties on you, just say no.

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/25/2014 10:04 AM
Bonnie,

If the other two directors do not wish to keep your PM you have no obligation to pick the pieces. Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decision-making. If they try to foist some of these duties on you, just say no.


I concur. and make sure that it is reflected in your meeting minutes, just how it goes down. Good luck!
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 01/25/2014 2:40 PM
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/25/2014 10:04 AM
Bonnie,

If the other two directors do not wish to keep your PM you have no obligation to pick the pieces. Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decision-making. If they try to foist some of these duties on you, just say no.



I concur. and make sure that it is reflected in your meeting minutes, just how it goes down. Good luck!

Thank you. I sincerely hope it dosn't come to this. But I was thinking that is exactly what I would do. Tell them since they don't want the PM they can do the work. I didn't think about having it reflected in the minutes. But I certainly will if it ever comes to that. I have felt like the dumpee for too long. When someone resigns, I have gotten the work dumped on me.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 01/25/2014 10:04 AM
Bonnie,

I do not think you grasp the concept of self-management.

Self-management does not create an obligation for the directors to personally keep the books, unplug toilets, shovel snow, or mow the lawn. Your job as director remains to hire those who can perform those tasks. Self-management just means that those people work directly for your association instead of working for a management company.

If the other two directors do not wish to keep your PM you have no obligation to pick the pieces. Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decision-making. If they try to foist some of these duties on you, just say no.


When we were self managed we did hire people to do the items you mentioned. But it still was more work for us. I made bank deposits and took the information to our bookkeeper. Someone had to be on site when the vendors came to service items such as the HVAC. We had to get the bids and this can be very time consuming.
We have an attached garage with 31 parking spaces, when there was a problem with either garage door, we had to call someone and a Board member had to be on site when they came. Self management is a lot of work no matter how you slice the cake.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I agree with with JoK. Make sure you're on record in the minutes of an open board meeting that you won't accept certain PM's duties if the two other directors vote to fire the PM. I remember what it was like for you before you got your PM.

Do you really think the president will want the board to vote to fire the PM for not making sure your custodians check under the dryer enough for lint? Does the PM spend time on your premises? Does he have an office on your premises? Or is he an off-site PM?

Remind us how many units are in your HOA, Bonnie. As I recall, they're in 1 or more 2-3 story buildings, yes? 55 & over?

Does the president's husband live nearby?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Prior to voting to fire the PM. I would strongly suggest that somebody review the contract you have with the PM. There may be specific conditions and/or procedures that have to be met prior to breaching the contract.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 01/26/2014 9:06 AM
I agree with with JoK. Make sure you're on record in the minutes of an open board meeting that you won't accept certain PM's duties if the two other directors vote to fire the PM. I remember what it was like for you before you got your PM.

Do you really think the president will want the board to vote to fire the PM for not making sure your custodians check under the dryer enough for lint? Does the PM spend time on your premises? Does he have an office on your premises? Or is he an off-site PM?

Remind us how many units are in your HOA, Bonnie. As I recall, they're in 1 or more 2-3 story buildings, yes? 55 & over?

Does the president's husband live nearby?

We have 1 building with 43 units. This is a senior condominium for at least 55 or older. The PM does not have an office on our premises. He is an off-site PM but regularly surveys our property for any maintentance needs and picks up Associaiton Fees and bills that have been approved by our President. He also attends our social coffee hour every Friday and gives a report.

The Presiden'ts husband lives about 45-60 minutes away. The President and her husband do travel back and forth a lot.

From the way the President tore into our PM, I think she is ready to fire him.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Tim offers good advice, Bonnie. Review the PM's contract to see if and how he can be dismissed.

But, the whole Board should vote on his dismissal, if it comes to that, shouldn't it? Or does something in your governing documents give the president the sole authority to hire & fire vendors and not even hire/fire at a meeting??

By the way, I think the Friday AM coffee hour is a very nice idea. Do you suppose that the president does not care for so much interaction between the residents and the PM? Given the president's two jobs, does she attend these Fri. AM meetings?
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Tim offers good advice, Bonnie. Review the PM's contract to see if and how he can be dismissed.

But, the whole Board should vote on his dismissal, if it comes to that, shouldn't it? Or does something in your governing documents give the president the sole authority to hire & fire vendors and not even hire/fire at a meeting??

By the way, I think the Friday AM coffee hour is a very nice idea. Do you suppose that the president does not care for so much interaction between the residents and the PM? Given the president's two jobs, does she attend these Fri. AM meetings?

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