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ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
I just don't get it. If you are in the mood to explain the budget basics, I'm raising my hand. I understand some of the report, but not enough to feel confident in my translation.. What is the line below saying?

Late Charge Processing 12 month actual 7 months actual Current Approved Approved Annual
53.33 53.71 49.00 54.00 648.00
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Without seeing the entire document (which may help explain it better), my best guess would be:

12 month actual = the last 12 months (not calender year, but the last 12 months) actual expense/income

7 month actual = the last 7 months actual expense/income (not sure why they are showing this unless it's the time within your fiscal year. Again, this is where the full document may be helpful in explaining the document)

Current Approved = amount currently approved by the board. This may be being used to show changes in initial annual budget or may simply be the actual amount of expenses for the fiscal year approved by the board.

Approved = income/expenses approved/incurred for the fiscal year to date. Again, it's difficult to say without seeing the actual documents. However, it sounds like it's the current status of your expenses/income.

Annual = a) initial annual budget amount or b) actual annual expense/income Again, without seeing the documents, it's difficult to say. However, I would be leaning to it being the initial annual budget.

Our Association uses a simpler budget report:

Annual Budget approved
Actual income/expenses to date
Annual remaining (budget approved minus actual income/expense to date)

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Renee,

If you can scan and e-mail the document to me, I may be able to give you a better explanation.

[email protected]

ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Coming your way. Thanks!
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
I have to be reading this wrong! It looks like the budget has APPROVED a money loss of 823.00!

If you saw Net Surplus (Deficit) and then the approved number was (823.00) in brackets , doesn't that mean deficit? Guess I better do the actual math.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ReneeC2 on 01/20/2014 8:23 PM
Coming your way. Thanks!

I'm off tonight (Monday). I'll look at it tomorrow (as my e-mail indicates, I tend to only look at that account when I'm at work)

ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
I'm still studying over here. It looks like we are in a deficit, but we manage to pay our bills because we are using the Reserve Fund and the Bad Debt Fund...... I think that's what it's saying. I can't find a reference that is set out like mine.
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
I think I got it to idea, but by ignoring the 12 month actual and 7 month actual and just looking at the current and approved columns. We have approved a monthly deficit of $828 monthly..... our current monthly deficit is only $700. Golly Gee good news, we're not loosing quite as month each month as we had planned on. That "savings" basically occurred because we are not spending what we budgeted on the Master Insurance policy. We are only using 1/3rd of that money. Is it normal for the D&O Policy to equal that of the Master Policy?

DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ReneeC2 on 01/20/2014 6:16 PM
I just don't get it. If you are in the mood to explain the budget basics, I'm raising my hand. I understand some of the report, but not enough to feel confident in my translation.. What is the line below saying?

Late Charge Processing 12 month actual 7 months actual Current Approved Approved Annual
53.33 53.71 49.00 54.00 648.00

Renee,

Is this information from the Income section of the budget or the Expense section?

If this is in the income section then what it is telling you is that the plan for 12 months is to COLLECT (process?) $648 in late fees (or $54 per month times 12 months). It appears that in the current month only $49 was collected versus a plan of $54 so your income was $5 less than planned. This would be an unfavorable variance.

If this is in the expense section then the plan was to SPEND $648 to process the late fees for a year ($54 per month times 12 months) and that in the current month you only spent $49. This would be a favorable variance of $5.

In most cases, if there is a cost to collect late fees there would be a budget entry for late fee income and a budget entry for late fee collection expense. If the total late fee income turned out to be less than the late fee collection expense you are doing something wrong!!

DAve
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
We are indeed doing something wrong.

Guess I'm going to request a copy of everything I have a right to see...... or just copy/paste the Davis-Sterling code that states just that. I can't find the code where it states they have to produce it in 10 days (I believe). I've read it generally and I think I've found the code before when I was trying to get meeting minutes. Had to threaten them with the code to get it.

I really scr.... the pooch on this one.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
My analysis of your budget is now in your email. You are back in the black.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Tim’s explanation sounds correct, although I agree that without seeing the entire report (or that page) it’s hard to see what this section is telling you.

Our financial report is also similar to Tim’s, but it also includes columns listing the budgeted amount for each line item per month (line item divided by 12) and monthly variation from the budget, where we can see at a glance if the actual income or expense is over or under budget. You may wish to talk to your property manager and/or your board (like the treasurer) to get your questions answered. Next year, they might want to consider providing a clear explanation of each section.

Our association publishes a recap of the previous year’s budget every spring, listing the balance sheets, detailed income/expense report for the operating and reserve budgets and a delinquency summary at the end of the year (number of homeowners delinquent, number of days delinquent, ranging from 30 days to over 121 and total amount owed. Each section contains brief explanations, such as what reserves are for, what a balance sheets tells us about the Association’s overall finances (as of December 31, anyway) etc.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
I'm going to try and get a renters list and see who owns what around here and get some conversations going!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Renee,

I do not believe you are entitled to have a copy or even review a list of renters.

You do have a right to review and a have a copy of the membership list.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Does your HOA have a requirement to provide a copy of the lease agreements or notify the board they are renting? If not, no one has to tell you a thing. Your best bet is to find out from the tax assessors office by property lot numbers the owners on record. It may not be accurate up to 6 months. However, death and taxes are assured.

Renters should have no bearing on your budgets. The owners are responsible for paying the dues NOT the tenants. The number of renters matter for certain loans requirements but not the budget.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Renee,

I'll send you an e-mail later with more info. From looking at what you provided, those headings indicate:

12 month actual = the last 12 months (not calender year, but the last 12 months) actual expense/income

7 month actual = the last 7 months actual expense/income (not sure why they are showing this unless it's the time within your fiscal year. Again, this is where the full document may be helpful in explaining the document)

Current = Actual income/expense of the current month. Based on the document you provided, that would be November 2013.

Approved = The current month's approved amount of the budget. Typically the annual budget divided by 12.

Approved Annual = The annual budget. Based on the document you provided, the annual budget shown is for 2014.

Some notes: Per the annual budget, expenses exceed income by approx $10,000. This is typically normal when the developer is in control. My understanding is that the developer is supposed to make this up out of his pocket and not the Associations Reserves. However, your applicable State laws and/or governing documents may say otherwise.

As I said, I'll e-mail you later tonight with more info about the document.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Renee,

After reviewing all the documents you provided, I need to revise what the headings indicate. This revision is:

12 month actual = the actual averaged monthly income/expense for the last 12 months.

7 month actual = the actual averaged monthly income/expense for the last 7 months.

Current = Actual income/expense of the current month

Approved = The current month's approved amount of the budget

Approved Annual = The annual budget. However, it's unclear what year that annual budget is for.

Basically, this document isn't very useful in understanding much beyond the current monthly expenses. It could be helpful if the Association or MC would simply make a few changes.

a) Identify which year the annual budget column is for
b) Include a Year to date column
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/21/2014 3:00 PM
Renee,

I do not believe you are entitled to have a copy or even review a list of renters.

You do have a right to review and a have a copy of the membership list.

Yes, I guess what I am looking for is the membership list. I want to make sure when I start these conversations, they are not with the renters.
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/21/2014 3:08 PM
Does your HOA have a requirement to provide a copy of the lease agreements or notify the board they are renting? If not, no one has to tell you a thing. Your best bet is to find out from the tax assessors office by property lot numbers the owners on record. It may not be accurate up to 6 months. However, death and taxes are assured.

Renters should have no bearing on your budgets. The owners are responsible for paying the dues NOT the tenants. The number of renters matter for certain loans requirements but not the budget.

No, I didn't want to know about them for budget purposes itself, I was looking to see who I should avoid talking to about the budget. I've since learned :-), the better way to go is to get the membership list. That would make sense because even though we do indeed have a renters cap, no other rule is being enforced, so why should that one.

I'm going to see what they have at the tax assessors office as well.
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Well that was easy. I could request all the info online for a fee. I want to make sure all information matches up.
MissyP (Alabama)
Posts: 63
Posted:
California is basically the only state that can enforce a renter's cap. However, it's only been since 2012 that can be enforced and only for HOA's formed in that time frame and beyond. All others are "grandfathered" in to the older rules which renting caps can't really be enforced. The ones that can do that is the lenders. The HOA does NOT own the homes, so it can't put such restrictions on technically. That is the logic of why rental caps can't be enforced as one would like.

You can easily get a member's list. Simply walk your HOA and write down the addresses off the door and street. There you have your list. The HOA can ONLY communicate to those property addresses even if the owner does not live in those homes. Contacting them out of town contacts is a "courtesy" while all papers and documents are to be served directly to the HOA home address on record. That is to be the owner's record of ownership for that home. So get your tennis shoes on or ride in the car... The information you need is right in front of you and no real mystery.

Oh and it is ILLEGAL to put something in a mailbox without a stamp on it. Your HOA may also have no solicitation rule as well. Which means putting notes on doors wouldn't be proper either. So you may want to mail (at your cost) your information you want to put out. Unless your HOA has an open bulletin board.

I am hoping that I am conveying to you that it's not as simple as one thinks it is when it comes to certain aspects of enforcement and knowledge. Even knowing who is an owner and who is not, can be a daunting task that your HOA may NOT have that information either. Ours didn't. Not that I did not know. It's just I had to put on my tennis shoes, walk my dogs, and ask questions. Otherwise, even as President, I could not tell you for sure who was a renter or an owner. Don't sue the entire HOA for it.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Your request for a membership list, Missy, probably goes to your management company and you (I think) need to give a reason. New Davis-Stir;ing legislation states that owners need to be informed who that "agent" is & how to contact them.

Missy is wrong re: CA. The MC will have the mailing addresses of all owners per where those owners have specified in writing where they want their HOA mail sent. So, absentee owners' HOA mail does not go to the HOA property they own but, generally, where they reside. There is no law in CA that HOA mail must go to the Owner's HOA address.
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Don't sue the entire HOA over it? What are you even talking about!

If there is one thing I've learned this past 3 years is NOTHING is as simple as one may think.... except contacting the tax assessors office. 0930 in the morning and they are calling me back saying they are going to send me an email outlining all the different ways I can get the names, so that I won't pay like I would if they just mailed it! I think my emails are being intercepted because that can't be the government! ha!

I want the names because I want to be able to go up and ask for Mr. such and such. Doesn't live there? I'll be moving along. That to me is an easier way to approach a stranger than "Are you a renter?". I'm not trying to bypass anything or be sneaky, it would just be more comfortable for me as a conversation opener. Leisurely strolling around the neighborhood isn't in my future for awhile, as I am disabled. Today Physical Therapy is going to start and try to teach me how to get back in a car. My walker does get me a certain amount of sympathy, however, so I should use it to my advantage while I still have it :-)

I would never in a million years mess with someones mailbox.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Renee, sometimes it's better to ignore Missy. I think you're doing a fine job trying to learn about your HOA!
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
I'll learn the different personalities as time goes on :-)
ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Which of these documents do you think I need at this time to get a better picture of what is going on in here?

1. Financial Records
- budget, reserves, lien policies, insurance, financial statements, etc.

- interim financial statements, including
(i) balance sheet,
(ii) income and expense statement,
(iii) budget comparison, and
(iv) general ledger

- salaries paid to employees, vendors, or contractors

- state and federal tax returns

- reserve account balances and payments from reserves

- invoices, receipts, canceled checks, purchase orders approved by the association, credit card statements for credit cards issued in the name of the association, statements for services rendered, and reimbursement requests submitted to the association.

2. Contracts

- contracts

- labor union contracts

3. Miscellaneous

- insurance policies

- any escrow documents (required by Civil Code 1368 between buyer and seller such as governing documents, assessments, violation notices (the general membership does not have the right to other members' violation notices), construction defects, etc.)
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Renee

For you to get a picture of the health of the association, you'll need the following documents:

Income/Expense Statement-this is the amount that comes in as income, assessments, late fees and misc and then the amounts or expenses going out, management fee, landscapers, utilities, insurance, repair and admin. This will also show year to year and compare to current budget.

Balance Sheet-will show how much is in each account, operating and reserve, what liabilities (accounts payable and prepaid owner assessments), and accounts receivables (delinquencies).

In December, your association should have received a packet from the management company called the Annual Disclosures. In it will be the a notice whether there is any increase in dues and why, next years budget, certificate of insurance, collection policy, IDR and ADR policies, reserve study summary and a few others. Here is a link to full list: http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/Disclosurechecklist/tabid/456/Default.aspx#axzz2rGt2aWlI.

If you find problems, ask for the General Ledgers. As they say, "the devil is in the details".

ReneeC2 (Florida)
Posts: 93
Posted:
Alright, submitted.

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