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ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, & experience on this topic. I’m a BOD Member currently having a difference of opinion with our Management Co on this topic. Instead of inserting my thoughts and opinions, I'll relay the situation with a simplified example and some follow-up questions that will hopefully substantiate (or not) my position.

1) Owner "A" submits a complaint to the BOD about Owner "B" (via the established complaint process).
2) BOD investigates the complaint and determines that "B" is in violation of the HOA docs.
3) BOD informs "B" of the violation (as well as the dispute and resolution process).
4) A number of different paths can evolve from here . . .

Now my questions:

A) At any point in time during or after this process, is the BOD or Management Co obligated to tell "B" that it was "A" who submitted the complaint?
B) Does the answer to the previous question change if "B" asks/demands that the BOD or Management Co tell them who complained?
C) To what extent (if any) should confidentiality be maintained through this process?
D) What are the reasons for or against maintaining confidentiality?

As I mentioned, I have my own stance on this topic and these questions, but the Management Co is strangely almost exactly opposed in their stance. So I'm looking for unbiased input to this topic. Thanks in advance.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
There is a divergence of opinions on this forum too. You might start by doing a Forum Search here. The topic seems to come up every couple of months. I have my own strong opinion. I'm sure you'll hear from several regulars, who also have strong opinions.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Thanks Carol. I didn't mention, but I did begin with a forum search . . . only came up with one topic that was nearly identical to mine: http://www.hoatalk.com/Search/ForumSearch/tabid/87/forumid/1/postid/86354/view/topic/Default.aspx

However, discussion and opinions within this topic didn't go too far in either direction.

There are numerous other topics in regard to confidentiality as it pertains to other matters (delinquencies, owner information, etc.), but my searches/questions so far are limited to dealing with complaints of suspected violations and confidentiality of the complainant.

Was just hoping for some more opinions on the matter. Thanks again.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Oh, you'll get responses. Here's how we do it in my HOA. I've been on the Board of 7 of our urban twin-towers high rise for seven years. Unlike detached homes, we only usually get two types of complaints and after-hours noise from units' balconies is the most common.

An owner cannot be called to a hearing in my HOA without corroboration of the complaint by a neutral 3rd party, e.g., security officers, management or a member of the Board. With 24-hour security, it's usually an officer who confirms the complaint in writing in an Incident Report to our Prop. Mgr. The PM sends a letter to the alleged violator asking for compliance with our rules (1st incident). If the violation is repeated, the alleged violator is called to attend a hearing with the Board at which a fine may be imposed.

Because a representative of our HOA files an Incident Report, it's the HOA not the individual neighbor who complained. Unless the violator disagrees with, say, a fine, and takes us to court, which hasn't never happened in the 12 years since the building opened, the original complainer does not need, in our opinion, to be identified or involved at the hearing.

We think that if complainers were required to be identified to the alleged violators, some violations would not be reported at all including those involving safety.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
..... currently having a difference of opinion with our Management Co .....


What has the BOD instructed their agent (mgmt. co.) to do?

Step up, discuss, decide, instruct agent, move on .....................

ps. all 'obligations' will be spelled out in the contractual documents including the CCRs and the mgmt. co. contract - you have merely hired someone to do the BOD's work
ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244
Posted:
I have found that even though there may be a myriad of old topics available, people often appreciate a current discussion.

Our governing documents are silent on the topic; however, it is my belief that if one feels strongly enough to complain, they ought to have the conviction to stand up for it instead of cowering in anonymity.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
JohnB26,
As this HOA and BOD is relatively new, the topic only recently surfaced and this divided stance has become apparent. So for now, the BOD has instructed the Management Company to do nothing in regard to this topic until we decide how we want things handled (at a Board meeting in about a week). Right now, I'm conducting research so that the BOD can make an informed decision on the matter . . . part of the research is soliciting info, thoughts, lessons-learned from people on this forum who may have already made this same decision. Thanks.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/14/2014 10:23 AM

A) At any point in time during or after this process, is the BOD or Management Co obligated to tell "B" that it was "A" who submitted the complaint?

This will depend upon the nature of the complaint and how your board goes about investigating it.

If the complaint is a violation that is open and obvious and your investigator can detect it from a public place, then the investigator himself becomes the complaining party and owner A is just an informant.

On the other hand, if the complaint relies mostly on information supplied by owner A and cannot be confirmed by the board's investigator then owner A should be advised that if wishes to pursue the complaint that he will be identified as the complaining party. If he wishes to remain anonymous then he must also remain silent; he cannot have it both ways.

Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/14/2014 10:23 AM

B) Does the answer to the previous question change if "B" asks/demands that the BOD or Management Co tell them who complained?

No. In the first example the original complainant is no longer involved. In the second example, the complainant would be disclosed from the outset.

Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/14/2014 10:23 AM

C) To what extent (if any) should confidentiality be maintained through this process?

The association is acting as court and is not an advocate for either party but this is subject to the preceding answer: the defendant is entitled to know who the complaining party is but is not entitled to know who the informants are if they are not called to testify.

Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/14/2014 10:23 AM

D) What are the reasons for or against maintaining confidentiality?

Public policy, especially as expressed in the US Constitution, does not favor secret complaints. The accused is entitled to confront the witnesses against him. That works for me.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/14/2014 10:23 AM
I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, & experience on this topic. I’m a BOD Member currently having a difference of opinion with our Management Co on this topic. Instead of inserting my thoughts and opinions, I'll relay the situation with a simplified example and some follow-up questions that will hopefully substantiate (or not) my position.

1) Owner "A" submits a complaint to the BOD about Owner "B" (via the established complaint process).
2) BOD investigates the complaint and determines that "B" is in violation of the HOA docs.
3) BOD informs "B" of the violation (as well as the dispute and resolution process).
4) A number of different paths can evolve from here . . .

Now my questions:

A) At any point in time during or after this process, is the BOD or Management Co obligated to tell "B" that it was "A" who submitted the complaint?
B) Does the answer to the previous question change if "B" asks/demands that the BOD or Management Co tell them who complained?
C) To what extent (if any) should confidentiality be maintained through this process?
D) What are the reasons for or against maintaining confidentiality?

As I mentioned, I have my own stance on this topic and these questions, but the Management Co is strangely almost exactly opposed in their stance. So I'm looking for unbiased input to this topic. Thanks in advance.

We have a complaint resolution policy:

1. If a homeowner complains that another homeowner is violating the rules, CCRs, etc. and A) If the complain cannot be independently verified (as, for example, I saw so and so walking his dog and he didn't pick up his dog's doo-doo) then we ask if the complaining homeowner is willing to attend a hearing and testify to that. If yes, we will send a notice of the complaint and hold the hearing. If no, then we do not pursue the matter. B) If the complaint can be independently verified (another homeowner is building a chicken coop in his yard) then the property manager and at least one board member will visit the location and photograph the violation, if possible. We then send a notice of violation and present the evidence gathered at the hearing.

2. If the complaint is of a non-violating nature (such as a "he says she says complaint"), then the property manager simply calls the homeowner and informs him/her of the complaint and asks if he/she wishes to respond. Any additional action will depend on the nature of the response.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
ND,

We require that owner "A" puts the complaint in writing. This tends to limit the neighbor against neighbor thing.

Our Architectural committee investigates the complaints and checks then responds to owner "A" in writing that a violation does or does not exist. If one exists, the Committee also starts the enforcement process.

If the issue goes as far as a hearing, then Owner B would be provided a copy of the initial complaint by Owner A if requested. However, that happens only if it goes as far as a hearing and for my Association, this doesn't happen often. Even when they do go to a hearing, Owner B is usually frustrated enough that they don't bother asking for the initial complaint.

Personally, I'm torn on the issue about providing info to Owner B about Owner A.
However, even if the police investigate a complaint and see an issue, the complainant may be required to testify in court about what prompted them to contact the police. Therefore, I believe that owner B would have that right if the issue went far enough.

Again, requiring written complaints from owners tends to keep the Association out of neighbor vs. neighbor conflicts or at least keeps it to a minimum.
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/14/2014 3:43 PM
ND,

We require that owner "A" puts the complaint in writing. This tends to limit the neighbor against neighbor thing.

Our Architectural committee investigates the complaints and checks then responds to owner "A" in writing that a violation does or does not exist. If one exists, the Committee also starts the enforcement process.

If the issue goes as far as a hearing, then Owner B would be provided a copy of the initial complaint by Owner A if requested. However, that happens only if it goes as far as a hearing and for my Association, this doesn't happen often. Even when they do go to a hearing, Owner B is usually frustrated enough that they don't bother asking for the initial complaint.

Personally, I'm torn on the issue about providing info to Owner B about Owner A.
However, even if the police investigate a complaint and see an issue, the complainant may be required to testify in court about what prompted them to contact the police. Therefore, I believe that owner B would have that right if the issue went far enough.

Again, requiring written complaints from owners tends to keep the Association out of neighbor vs. neighbor conflicts or at least keeps it to a minimum.

Tim I really respect your opinion but why would you not encourage neighbor to neighbor resolution. I am a firm believer that neighbors should discuss the issues between each other first before HOA board involvement. I would much prefer the direct approach.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Banks,

We do encourage neighbor to neighbor resolution.

In fact, where the alleged violations are subjective (noise, etc.), it's plainly written in our documents that the Association won't become involved unless two or more members complain.

The issue asked about by the OP concerned violations and what is done when complaints are received and should the violator be informed who the complainer was. This is the question and issue I was responding to. For example: we had one individual who would call about many alleged violations on others. Most of the violations were only perceived and not actual but all of the complaints had to be looked into and responded to. Once we required the complaints to be in writing (e-mail works), the complaints quit coming in from that person. Many people simply do not want to become involved themselves, they want others to become involved for them.
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/14/2014 4:11 PM
Banks,

We do encourage neighbor to neighbor resolution.

In fact, where the alleged violations are subjective (noise, etc.), it's plainly written in our documents that the Association won't become involved unless two or more members complain.

The issue asked about by the OP concerned violations and what is done when complaints are received and should the violator be informed who the complainer was. This is the question and issue I was responding to. For example: we had one individual who would call about many alleged violations on others. Most of the violations were only perceived and not actual but all of the complaints had to be looked into and responded to. Once we required the complaints to be in writing (e-mail works), the complaints quit coming in from that person. Many people simply do not want to become involved themselves, they want others to become involved for them.

OK, I see but will you be more specific as to what you mean by violations? Do you mean CC&R violations? My HOA is notorious for a neighbor to complain to the board about someone then at least 2 board members come a knockin. Our CC&R's have expired so nothing they can do about it anyway if the complaint is about a restriction in the covenants.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Yes, I mean CC&R violations
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I've been reading reference materials that I just received online for our next Board meeting. One violation is liquid off a balcony that slopped onto some balconies below. A resident complained, a security officer stood outside & identified the unit that was in violation. He also went to that unit and told them to stop the water. There is no need for the resident who complained to be identified as the officer verified the violation.

Another Incident Report involved a midnight call to security complaining about loud music in the unit above. The officer went to the unit's door and heard nothing. He checked some other units. Nothing. He stood on the ground below this 5th floor unit and heard nothing. He phoned the unit and the resident answered saying he had his TV on, but no music. The officer wrote he could hear the TV, but it wasn't loud music. No one will get a "courtesy" letter to comply and the complainer will not need to be identified. No action will be taken. And, it's true, the woman below does dislike the neighbor above her.

But I've taken the neighbor-to-neighbor approach and it's worked out very well even though I've had to get up, get dressed, go to units above me and locate the source of 2AM hammering. Now if the same racket happened in the other tower 100 feet away, where I'd need to ride some elevators, go outside, etc., I'd call security to figure it out.

Complaints in writing are really useful for certain violations, e.g., bicycles stored on balconies or sheds being constructed without approval. But for noise complaints and water (or worse!) off balconies, someone needs to be informed while the infraction is occurring. Here, that means a phone call.

Some of our rules are in our CC&Rs, and others are in our Rules & Regulations.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I am torn on this subject.

Part of me says that if you want to complain then publically stand up and do so. Let the chips fall where they will.

Part of me says the BOD should take responsibility to "investigate" any complaints (even anonymous ones) and if true, then the BOD becomes the official/public record complainer.

I also say a BOD has to learn what benign neglect is and treat some complaints with such.

Again, I am torn on the subject.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/14/2014 6:37 PM

Part of me says the BOD should take responsibility to "investigate" any complaints (even anonymous ones) and if true, then the BOD becomes the official/public record complainer.

We always investigate any complaint. What I'm saying is we have a policy that the complaints be in writing and this helps limit all but the serious complaints. However, our Association will investigate any and all complaints that they receive.

If someone calls one in we ask that they send the complaint in writing (we tell the complainer that the reason that we want to make sure the issue is documented) but we don't wait for the written complaint before we investigate.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I do not think it is a Management company issue unless it is part of thecontract to handle. This is a HOA issue. I am pretty open with sharing the information to our HOA members without revealing names. If it is a violation it effects all and everyone should be aware. The rules dictate how things are handled and they are open to defend themselves at the open meeting. Just like the owner who feels violated can bring it up. Usually gets worked out then without the board stepping in once the subject is addressed.

We did not fine people in violation in our HOA. Fines can not be basis of liens and have to be defined to follow up on. Most of the time it was just a letter sent to the owner and a quote from the rule they violated. Angry owners will protest and not pay their dues. Good owners respond and clear it up. Protesting ones get liened in 6 months of not paying. We also let them know if the HOA cleans up the violation, they get the bill. If that bill is not paid, we can lien for repair costs, lien filing fees, legal costs, and interest. That usually gets things corrected overall.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Our approach is a blend of some of the information you've already heard. First, we don't take anonymous complaints - if a homeowner is concerned about retaliation and it's a safety issue, he or she can report the problem to one of our security officers, who will talk to the subject of the complaint. They don't tell the subject who made the complaint. For disputes between neighbors, we don't get involved unless abuse/misuse of the common area is involved. If a board member or property manager can verify the problem exists, we don't disclose the complainant and send a CCR violation notice.

Last fall, we published a newsletter article about all of this and told homeowners we don't take anonymous complaints because

1) most of the time, the complaints don't contain enough details we can use to investigate the problem
2) we don't know if someone's just being vindictive or petty and don't want to get into a tit for tat conflict
3) if the situation escalates to where legal action is necessary, we'll need the complainant to testify as to what he/she saw to help prove our case.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/14/2014 10:23 AM
I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, & experience on this topic. I’m a BOD Member currently having a difference of opinion with our Management Co on this topic. Instead of inserting my thoughts and opinions, I'll relay the situation with a simplified example and some follow-up questions that will hopefully substantiate (or not) my position.

1) Owner "A" submits a complaint to the BOD about Owner "B" (via the established complaint process).
2) BOD investigates the complaint and determines that "B" is in violation of the HOA docs.
3) BOD informs "B" of the violation (as well as the dispute and resolution process).
4) A number of different paths can evolve from here . . .

Now my questions:

A) At any point in time during or after this process, is the BOD or Management Co obligated to tell "B" that it was "A" who submitted the complaint?
B) Does the answer to the previous question change if "B" asks/demands that the BOD or Management Co tell them who complained?
C) To what extent (if any) should confidentiality be maintained through this process?
D) What are the reasons for or against maintaining confidentiality?

As I mentioned, I have my own stance on this topic and these questions, but the Management Co is strangely almost exactly opposed in their stance. So I'm looking for unbiased input to this topic. Thanks in advance.

DARCO, the management company we own, maintains anonymity for the complaintant unless they are required to testify at a Hearing. When our agent personally verifies the violation then the complintant would never have to testify because our agent can give first hand testimony and documentation.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Thank you all for the various pieces of advice. This will most certainly help my Board establish a well thought-out policy that should address virtually all potential situations.

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