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DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293
Posted:
Howdy All, it's been awhile. It is time for my annual HOA meeting and I've placed on the Agenda an overview of common-interest living. One of the things I want to address is governance by a management company and governance by community only. I understand the association is still mandated to have a Board when hiring a management company. My questions are: Why? How does that work? I'd like to explain this to the association to help them understand the reality of no one stepping up to volunteer to serve on the Board. I am heading into my eighth year as President. Thank so much for your help.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Dorothy,

Whether or not an association hires a management company or is self managed, the role of the board of directors remains the same: set the policies and make the decision that broadly affect the association. The day to day activities required to implement those policies and decisions can be delegated to a management company by the board. But the board remains responsible for them and for the oversight of the management company. If you are self managed, the board members can delegate those day to day duties to volunteer members of the association, can carry them out themselves, or some combination of the two.

If the board members themselves don't have the experience or the skills to direct the daily operations, a management company can provide valuable advice to the board on how to operate. That advice wouldn't be available under self management.

I hope this information is useful to you.

Dave
DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293
Posted:
Dave,
I think so. So, a management company does not deal with Bylaws, CC&R's, Rules and Regulations or Resolutions. They just basically do what the Board asks them to do to facilitate the requirements of these statutes? For example, send out invoices for annual assessments, collect and deposit into the bank. Or, get three bids for any common-area maintenance and repair and make the decision on which one to hire. Or pay bills. Do they deal with problematic homeowners? Enforcement of covenant violations? If the relationship of MO's and HOA's is basically one of employee/employer, why the horror stories of MO's taking over and running the show, often to the detriment of the HOA. What I read here is that the Board is the ultimate authority, and they can approve or disapprove any action of the MO. Thanks.
Dorothy
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Dorothy

As an owner of a management company, I chirp in with my two cents.

There are different levels of management of an HOA and much depends on the size and complexity of the community.

Purely Self Managed-The Association, through its elected/appointed Board of Directors has sole responsibility for everything in the complex, collecting the dues, delinquencies, collections, rules violations, interacting with the neighbors, good or bad.

Financial Management-An outside party, many times a property management company with handle all the financials, taking in money, paying bills, and preparing monthly financials.

Full-Service Management-Does all the above and acts as a buffer between volunteers and homeowners.

On-Site Manager-Larger size properties or ones more complex or requiring more attention may have a General Manager, onsite running the complex possibly with a staff, either paid directly by the association as an employee or by a management company who may do the books for them.

Ultimately, whatever road you take has to have direction from the Board of Directors.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DorothyO on 01/08/2014 6:18 PM
Dave,
I think so. So, a management company does not deal with Bylaws, CC&R's, Rules and Regulations or Resolutions. They just basically do what the Board asks them to do to facilitate the requirements of these statutes? For example, send out invoices for annual assessments, collect and deposit into the bank. Or, get three bids for any common-area maintenance and repair and make the decision on which one to hire. Or pay bills. Do they deal with problematic homeowners? Enforcement of covenant violations? If the relationship of MO's and HOA's is basically one of employee/employer, why the horror stories of MO's taking over and running the show, often to the detriment of the HOA. What I read here is that the Board is the ultimate authority, and they can approve or disapprove any action of the MO. Thanks.
Dorothy

The board can delegate whichever duties it chooses to the management company. Of course, the more duties delegated and the more complex those delegated duties are, the more the management company will charge. One thing you mentioned as a possible duty of a management company was "... make the decision on which one to hire." There is nothing wrong with the management company making a recommendation to the board as to which bid to accept. But the board must make the decision.

The horror stories you hear are often the result of weak or lazy boards. If the board shows that it is unwilling or unable to make decisions, the management company may step in to fill the vacuum. Any contract with a management company should give the association the right to terminate the contract with appropriate notice.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DorothyO on 01/08/2014 5:29 PM
Howdy All, it's been awhile. It is time for my annual HOA meeting and I've placed on the Agenda an overview of common-interest living. One of the things I want to address is governance by a management company and governance by community only. I understand the association is still mandated to have a Board when hiring a management company. My questions are: Why? How does that work? I'd like to explain this to the association to help them understand the reality of no one stepping up to volunteer to serve on the Board. I am heading into my eighth year as President. Thank so much for your help.

Dorothy,

A professionally managed company will help enforce your rules, make sure residents follow guidelines and handle all the other matters that can bog down volunteers and make board service miserable.

My master association's property management firm handles the day-to-day activities and keeps the board in the loop. I, as president, may assist residents or delegate and keep a bird's eye view on things, getting as involved as needed, but the manager works for the community. I think the term is "managing the manager." It works great because community volunteers don't get consumed with minutiae.

8 years as president is a long time. If you don't currently have a property manager on board, you're to be commended for absorbing the punishment.
DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293
Posted:
Thank you all. You have clarified for me what I can talk about if this ever comes up. My HOA, while not super small, 42 houses, has no major common areas or maintenance issues. We pay just two bills a month. In the twenty one years of our existence we have had to seek legal remedy only once to collect assessments in arrears for six months, and twice for covenant enforcement. Over these years the HOA has been managed admirably by our volunteers. Ironically, this very competency fosters complacency. If it ain't broke, why change anything? So, no one, year after year, will step up to volunteer to serve their term as an officer. One year I had to serve as Vice President, and when that temporary period was up, I had to literally beg a former President to please step in, so we would not be in violation of our own Bylaws, thereby making us vulnerable to possible action by the one problematic homeowner we have -- who sees conspiracy, police state, preference etc., in every action the Board takes. It's queer how people don't connect the dots between their property value and the management of their property by the association. This past summer we had four houses for sale. All four sold within 2 months, two weeks, two days and four hours respectively. The similar house in another area of town would not sell as fast or for as much. This is a very sweet neighborhood because we have covenants that are honored and enforced. So why won't people volunteer to help? It's a puzzle. Thanks for the information fellow volunteers!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Dorothy besides being just plain lazy the number one reason for not serving on the Board that I hear is that H/O are afraid to enforce the CC&R's against their neighbors. Either fearing for their safety or that it will turn their friendly neighbor into the neighbor from hell.

Worst case, what happens if no one is willing to donate an hour or two a month is
the one person left holding the can, begins to run the HOA as their own personal fiefdom.

Second worst case is that your HOA could be turned over to a receiver appointed by the court who will make all decisions, probably hire a MC to oversee the day to day things And raise your HOA fees to pay for everything including his salary.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Dorothy..we are not in Kansas anymore...oops...I digress.

What you might want to consider is a part time bookkeeper to do all the tedious tasks and free up the BOD to manage. This might also aid you in enlisting others to run for the BOD.
JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Our HOA is like yours and we have a "full time" management firm, and the main reason is so that the BOD doesn't have to enforce or police our neighbors. We pay them to do so. Just over half of our yearly assessment is to pay a company. The sad thing is that the board still has to follow everything they do to make sure it's done. Seems ridiculous to have to do that, but it is what it is, and we have learned the hard way.

Another HOA near us is self managed and they amended their documents to reflect that every homeowner had to take a turn on the board, that way they cut their yearly assessment in half. It has been working for them for over 20 years.

If I were told as a homeowner that the HOA is being forced into receivership etc, and fees will go up unless there are volunteers, I would reconsider.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Dorothy

Typically a management company will have a list of services they offer and you buy the services you want. The services can range from you simply keep the books only up to you all do everything for us. The issue becomes how much are you willing to pay and will the company want a specific amount of billing otherwise they do not want your business.

Need to know more about your association size, budgets, etc.

We are 113 standalone patio homes with no amenities and very little common ground. Our yearly budget is about $70K. Overall I feel we could easily be owner managed and at most, hire a part time bookkeeper.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/11/2014 10:20 AM
Dorothy

Typically a management company will have a list of services they offer and you buy the services you want. The services can range from you simply keep the books only up to you all do everything for us. The issue becomes how much are you willing to pay and will the company want a specific amount of billing otherwise they do not want your business.

Need to know more about your association size, budgets, etc.

We are 113 standalone patio homes with no amenities and very little common ground. Our yearly budget is about $70K. Overall I feel we could easily be owner managed and at most, hire a part time bookkeeper.

John,
Considering today's litigious society what Board member or Owner wants to accept the responsibility of keeping up with all the past, current, and future laws? IMO, that is an very important reasons for considering professional management.
DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293
Posted:
Oh, you guys, sorry if I mislead, but there is not way in heck we are going to a management company. There's not a bone in my body that shirks from talking to homeowner about anything. (Eye, it's the Irish in me). Thankfully, I so rarely have to be the bad guy. Like I said, in the twenty years we've been alive, we've had only one lawsuit, two situations that need minor legal counsel, and just one lien for back assessments, and they were only six-months behind. We have, I think, judging from so many of the posts I read here, an extraordinary HOA, with one exception that is ordinary: apathy to serve. I like that amendment to serve for a reduction of fees. I'll have to bandy that about a bit. Our budget is just under $10,000 a year. We write only two checks per month, are tax-exempt, and it takes a whopping three minutes to balance our checkbook. But I wanted the information on the various MO's of MC's just for more information in my quiver, should I one day have to shoot an arrow into the derriers of my neighbors to step up!

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