WHAT ROLE DO OWNERS HAVE PART II

Started by JonD1 • 17 replies • 1858 views

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JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

http://www.pe.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20140103-hoa-homefront-new-years-resolutions-part-ii--homeowners.ece

Looks like the owners also have some work cut out for themselves too.

IMO what is most important to remember.

Board members volunteer their time and energy while you sit back and do nothing.

As an owner YOU benefit from their efforts.

If you have never served don't assume you know everything that needs to be known.

Board members are NOT your employees. They do not live to serve your needs and demands. They too have lives to live.
The same type of lives that prevent you from involving yourself in the management of your property.

Just because you don't agree doesn't make the Board WRONG!

Sometimes Board members are simply doing the best they can or know how to do.

You live in a community where you are just ONE of many. The deciding factor should not be only what it is you want or demand.

Board members should NOT be treated as the enemy because after the dust has cleared and the war you started is over win, lose, or draw most times both you and they will still be living in your community as neighbors.

A little appreciation goes a very long way.

When you are unable to gain enough support to hold a Board position that MIGHT suggest your views and ideas just might not be all that popular with the other owners.

On some rare occasions it might just be YOU that is the problem.

You decided to purchase property in a community with other property owners. Your opinion and views are just one of many.

Ask youself "WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS COMMUNITY?" When making decisions that will affect every owner.

IMO if your community is failing in some way after you blame the MC and after you find fault with the members of the Board
Then you are left with looking at what role the owners play. No bad behavior can exist or continue unless the owners allow it through uninvolvement or lack of real effort.

AND FINALLY YOU AS PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE A ROLE IN ALL OF THIS. PROPERTY OWNERSHIP IN AN HOA/CONDO
REQUIRES YOU TOO MAKE SOME EFFORT TO MANAGE YOUR BIGGEST FINANCIAL INVESTMENT.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Amen to that. In my line of work (legal system) I deal with lots of difficult people, especially criminals. I have a couple of residents that are the most difficult people to deal with and I sometimes have to resort to my 'work' people skills to deal with them. Here is a link to a wonderful resource and I assure you I do not know any of the folks on this site, but the premise of this topic I feel directly relates to some of my residents and I am sure some of yours as well. http://www.highconflictinstitute.com/about-hci/who-are-high-conflict-people Now I can deal with any problem that arises but the difficult people are, in my opinion, the worst thing about being a board member.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AllisonD on 01/04/2014 11:56 AM
Amen to that. In my line of work (legal system) I deal with lots of difficult people, especially criminals.

I'm confused. Exactly what is it that you do?

In an earlier post you stated:

"I run a county department that takes in money and credit card charges are charged directly to the person paying."

How does this post relate to the previous comment?

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

I work for the county, more specifically the county attorney, and my area of work is in the court system. A good deal of what I do relates to the criminal and family courts and under my purview is the county drug testing lab (the lab takes in money). Criminals and particularly those addicted to drugs are among the most manipulative people I have ever met. Although the link I provided is specifically geared towards family court and criminal court, I think these traits can be found in plenty of people outside of the court system and when I gave it more thought, I could identify three homeowners in my neighborhood that are the ones that take the most of my time and are the most inflexible and are difficult and argumentative. I thought it was interesting and I thought others might find it interesting as well.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I think I'll write to the HOA Homefront folks and get permission to reprint their resolutions in our newsletter - I read part one of the series, which addressed board members and it seems to me both should be published side by side. Then again, I like Jon's "for real" interepertation of the same!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 01/05/2014 6:51 AM
I think I'll write to the HOA Homefront folks and get permission to reprint their resolutions in our newsletter - I read part one of the series, which addressed board members and it seems to me both should be published side by side. Then again, I like Jon's "for real" interepertation of the same!

The rights to my comments are for sale at the right price.......LOL

After serving now 27 years reading about things just doesn't match real life experience.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

The rights to my comments are for sale at the right price.......LOL

After serving now 27 years reading about things just doesn't match real life experience.

FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276

Posted:

My own experience allowed me to draw the conclusion that most HOA members do not know what is going on-they seldom if ever attend meetings or read newsletters or take the time to analyze the financial statements. Then, their first reaction to someone they perceive as 'stirring the waters' is to want to avoid problems. Speaking for the Midwest only, most people seem to want to appear to live with their heads in the sand and not know the truth. People like and seek to avoid conflict.

These facts of human nature make it difficult for those wanting to enact change to do so with relative ease, and maybe that is not all bad. But, think about how Tim, a highly respected participant on this site, took 3 years to get on his Board and used "tactics" such as printing an unauthorized newsletter. I can just imagine what his Board was saying about him at that time, yet by all accounts Tim has earned our respect because he is a well informed voice of reason who works with others and offers help to solve issues.

The more the regular Board members participate on this site, the further my views are strengthened that it is not the membership that should be criticized. Board members, you did volunteer-no one twisted your arms. The positions come with few benefits, and mostly negatives. You are doing community service. If you can not do it without complaining, then resign. In nearly 3 decades of service Jon maybe a break would do you and your community some good. Fresh perspectives ought to be encouraged.

I have never known an effective leader who was perceived, rightfully or wrongly, as a negative individual. Even the most admired public officials have a knack for focusing on the positives. My own leadership is lacking because I am not a "rah-rah" type of person. If I can admit it, some of you should as well. In fact, I have already started to encourage other neighbors to run by stating though I have what it takes to force some necessary changes through, our community will be better served by personality types who are more congenial. The only good thing about my leadership is that I recognize I am not a leader, just a catalyst for necessary changes.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

It’s human nature to want to avoid conflict and criticism, but as a community leader, that’s part of the price of the ticket, and you’re correct that if you’re thin skinned and unwilling to at least consider the other side, it’s best for you to sit down and let someone with more backbone take over. And there are different styles to leadership – some people are the “rah, rah” type, while others are the strong, silent type – as long as the leaders are effective, I don’t have a preference one way or another.

After 10 years on the board, I expected criticism - I think good leaders welcome it because it’s a great way to keep you humble and open to different approaches. The problem is that’s the most many homeowners will do. If you’re not going to lend a helping hand, at least make a suggestion as to what could be done to improve things – we already know you won’t roll up your sleeves and chip in because that means you’d actually have to WORK towards a solution. When you ask people for suggestions, they often say nothing, but “mean mug” you, or cuss you out, as if dirty looks or yelling will drive home their point. If that’s all you have to offer after yelling about what’s wrong, it’s a waste of time.

It’s also more than a little irritating when you’ve tried to explain the situation six or seven ways, always asking if people understand the background of the issue but the response indicates they aren’t even listening. You don’t have to agree with a specific approach, but at least try to understand the background and ask questions if you don’t. And don’t ask people to read anything – that requires entirely too much concentration for more than two minutes! It’s like my mother often says – the best way to keep some people misinformed and ignorant is to simply write the information down and hand it to them – they’ll never read it!

No, change isn’t immediate and it’s never been easy– that’s history in general. The question is whether you believe strongly in your cause and are willing to keep at it until the change is made. It may be you will be the one to get things started, but others will see it through to the conclusion. The change may take 30 minutes or three years, three months - and maybe 30 years, because it takes time for everyone else to see its benefits. I believe if the change is a positive one and those committed to it truly have the best interest of the people in mind, it WILL happen eventually.

Maybe this quote sums things up:

To lead people, walk beside them ... As for the best leaders, the people do not notice their existence. The next best, the people honor and praise. The next, the people fear; and the next, the people hate ... When the best leader's work is done the people say, 'We did it ourselves!'" — Lao-tsu (Chinese philosopher and author of Tào Té Chīng)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 01/06/2014 6:12 AM
It’s human nature to want to avoid conflict and criticism, but as a community leader, that’s part of the price of the ticket, and you’re correct that if you’re thin skinned and unwilling to at least consider the other side, it’s best for you to sit down and let someone with more backbone take over. And there are different styles to leadership – some people are the “rah, rah” type, while others are the strong, silent type – as long as the leaders are effective, I don’t have a preference one way or another.

After 10 years on the board, I expected criticism - I think good leaders welcome it because it’s a great way to keep you humble and open to different approaches. The problem is that’s the most many homeowners will do. If you’re not going to lend a helping hand, at least make a suggestion as to what could be done to improve things – we already know you won’t roll up your sleeves and chip in because that means you’d actually have to WORK towards a solution. When you ask people for suggestions, they often say nothing, but “mean mug” you, or cuss you out, as if dirty looks or yelling will drive home their point. If that’s all you have to offer after yelling about what’s wrong, it’s a waste of time.

It’s also more than a little irritating when you’ve tried to explain the situation six or seven ways, always asking if people understand the background of the issue but the response indicates they aren’t even listening. You don’t have to agree with a specific approach, but at least try to understand the background and ask questions if you don’t. And don’t ask people to read anything – that requires entirely too much concentration for more than two minutes! It’s like my mother often says – the best way to keep some people misinformed and ignorant is to simply write the information down and hand it to them – they’ll never read it!

No, change isn’t immediate and it’s never been easy– that’s history in general. The question is whether you believe strongly in your cause and are willing to keep at it until the change is made. It may be you will be the one to get things started, but others will see it through to the conclusion. The change may take 30 minutes or three years, three months - and maybe 30 years, because it takes time for everyone else to see its benefits. I believe if the change is a positive one and those committed to it truly have the best interest of the people in mind, it WILL happen eventually.

Maybe this quote sums things up:

To lead people, walk beside them ... As for the best leaders, the people do not notice their existence. The next best, the people honor and praise. The next, the people fear; and the next, the people hate ... When the best leader's work is done the people say, 'We did it ourselves!'" — Lao-tsu (Chinese philosopher and author of Tào Té Chīng)

After giving 26 years of my time I too have seen and learned a thing or to. Yes, the Monday morning quarterbacks who have NEVER put themselves in the game. Those who sit on the sidelines with no time or effort to give just uninformed, misinformed ignorant views as to how THEY think things should be done. Sort of like being lectured by a 6 year old on how to live your life! Every property has one or a few. Folks who don't and never will understand but that never slows them from telling everyone all they think they know.
Seems in many cases all they can do is flap their gums. They speak for the community or so they claim but can never get enough votes to win a position on the Board. It always come down to someone else not allowing them to impose their ideas about how things should go and inject their views of right and wrong. Arrogance, ignorance and laziness wrapped up in a big mouth unable to hear or comprehend anything sourced outside themselves. The only voice they can hear is their own...

If you never actually participated I care very little what your opinions are. You have not earned the right to suggest to others you have something better to offer or that YOU are a leader.

Teddy Roosevelt had this to say about the value of critics and those who only have views, opinions from a comfortable distance away. "cold and timid souls" who themselves give little because in the end they really have nothing to offer.

“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

I have met arrogant individuals before, but someone here ready stands proudly amoungst us all.

FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276

Posted:

Maybe it was one of Teddy's Rough Riders that first coined the term 'shoot yourself in the foot', but that's all I could think of right now. I'll add that maybe the next time not to empty the entire cylinder when one bullet is all that is necessary to get the job done

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

No sure if Jon mentioned this, but in NY HOA boards aren't required to have open meetings except perhaps one a year, which may be a membership meeting. Jon's HOA, he's reported in the past, has chosen to keep its meetings closed.

I do like his TR quote a lot. I couldn't help but think--in a good way-- of the Don Quixote's Impossible Dream lyrics.

FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276

Posted:

No open meetings and members who have been there for decades? Golly, color me stupid for buying into this HOA!

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FrankS10 on 01/08/2014 8:34 AM
No open meetings and members who have been there for decades? Golly, color me stupid for buying into this HOA!

Iowa is another state that does not require open meetings. Legislation has been introduced several times to adopt the "Common Interest Ownership Act" which does require open meetings among other things. I have made contact with my state Senator and Representative to revive the proposal for this years' legislative session. It begins January 13.

Iowa law does require one membership meeting per year and member access to records. The member access to records is easier said than done though. My attempts at getting records is a frustrating process. I have to beg, plead, and sometimes go as far as seeing a lawyer to write them a letter. Which of course costs me money.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolR11 on 01/07/2014 5:44 PM
No sure if Jon mentioned this, but in NY HOA boards aren't required to have open meetings except perhaps one a year, which may be a membership meeting. Jon's HOA, he's reported in the past, has chosen to keep its meetings closed.

I do like his TR quote a lot. I couldn't help but think--in a good way-- of the Don Quixote's Impossible Dream lyrics.

Carol:

Now we have been through this before. I understand you can't see ouside the box your state laws require. You know the know all be all Davis/Stirling rules of how to live life. In NY open meetings are not required. The property can choose to do either. Or have the freedom to decide for themselves. On our property since the propery was formed meeting have been closed. Now I understnad in your limited world that HAS to be a bad thing. Becuase that would preven the 1-2 % of owners from making their way each month to the meeting. Now in the 30+ years of existence the owners here have never raised or pushed to have open meetings. So for you and those like minded folks that's less than what you do. To be honest I would never set my standards to align with what you have described goes on at your property. Nor have I ever looked to California as the guiding light for behavior.

You have open meeting because the law requires. We don't hold open meetings because the law gives US the option to do as we feel.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FrankS10 on 01/08/2014 8:34 AM
No open meetings and members who have been there for decades? Golly, color me stupid for buying into this HOA!

There's a whole big world out there outside of Kansas Frank. Things go on without having to be approved by you. I know that's hard for you to swallow but that's reality.

I read you have yet to be elected as a member of the Board. Whose fualt is it this time????

Did you mention your clean driving reocrd, the lenght of your marriage and your knowledge of the Commandments?????? Then what could be the problem? Must be confusing to you....

FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276

Posted:

Jon,

I was elected and am serving currently. Either you don't know how to read or have some other problem that would make me even more concerned about giving you my money with no oversight.

I accept your apology

Hopefully you are more informed as a Board member than what you displayed here.

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