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LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Is it permissible in Florida to share a video/audio recording with another resident (unit owner) if it was recorded by a unit owner?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LD2 on 12/20/2013 6:16 AM
Is it permissible in Florida to share a video/audio recording with another resident (unit owner) if it was recorded by a unit owner?

Your question is too vague. A video of what? Of Whom? Taken where (private or public setting)? There are probably more details that need to be spelled out to get a meaningful answer.
LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
A video of the monthly hoa board meeting. A video of the board members. For the residents that were not able to make the meeting, can I share the video/audio with them?
LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
The meeting was held at a board members residence within the community
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I wouldn't post it on Youtube but that's me. Other than that, you are allowed to record meetings in FL: 720.306 Meetings of members; voting and election procedures; amendments.—

(10) RECORDING.—Any parcel owner may tape record or videotape meetings of the board of directors and meetings of the members. The board of directors of the association may adopt reasonable rules governing the taping of meetings of the board and the membership.

So sure share away.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Ok, so what I am specifically looking for is a law that states it is OK for me to share this with unit owners in Florida, as the board gave me a hard time (which is recorded) about even recording when the Florida statues clearly says I can.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Notice the wording of the section: The board of directors of the association may adopt reasonable rules governing the taping of meetings of the board and the membership.

Not may adopt reasonable rules for dissemination. Whether the Board likes it or not, the tape is your property.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LD2 on 12/20/2013 7:42 AM
Ok, so what I am specifically looking for is a law that states it is OK for me to share this with unit owners in Florida, as the board gave me a hard time (which is recorded) about even recording when the Florida statues clearly says I can.

You aren't going to find it.

This is why Glen recommended not putting it on the internet.

Burn a cd/dvd and loan the copy to neighbors.
AnnJ1 (Florida)
Posts: 122
Posted:
Hi LD....

The following article may be of interest to you. It is authored by Atty Joseph Adams of Becker and Poliakoff....

What Owner Does With Video of Board Meeting Probably Beyond Board’s Control
By Joseph Adams on September 26th, 2012

Posted in Reader Q&A

Question: I am on a building advisory committee for my homeowner’s association. Recently, a home owner came into our meeting and started videotaping it. No votes were taken at the meeting. There is concern that this owner will post videos of our association’s meetings on one of the popular internet video sites. If they do this, outsiders (such as contractors who have submitted competitive bids against each other) can see our business. Can we prevent this? A.C. (via e-mail)

Answer: Interesting question.

First, according to Section 720.306(10) of the Florida Homeowners’ Association Act, parcel owners have the right to tape record or videotape meetings of the board of directors and meetings of members. There is no right in the statute to videotape meetings of committees. Therefore, I believe the committee’s chair can prevent recording of committee meetings, certainly the board of directors would have the right to do so.

As to videotaping board or members’ meetings, the statute does not provide any authority for the association to limit what an owner does with the video recording. The recording is, after all, his or her property. The law does say that the board may adopt reasonable rules “governing the taping of meetings.”

I suppose one could argue that posting board meetings to internet video sites serves no legitimate purpose, and can compromise potentially sensitive information, such as the bidding example you discussed, or perhaps approval of a parcel transfer. However, since the right to videotape board and member meetings is in the nature of a “sunshine law.” I suspect that a court would side with the member’s right to do what they want with the video recording.

http://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2012/09/articles/qa/what-owner-does-with-video-of-board-meeting-probably-beyond-boards-control/

HTH,
Ann
LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thanks!
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/20/2013 9:12 AM
Burn a cd/dvd and loan the copy to neighbors.

The only problem with that is you can't control what someone else will do with a copy of the video. They could post it on the internet
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
True Bruce. However, that would then more likely be their problem. You might have to defend that you loaned without knowledge of what they would do with it but, as you said, what they do is indeed out of your control.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/20/2013 2:18 PM
True Bruce. However, that would then more likely be their problem. You might have to defend that you loaned without knowledge of what they would do with it but, as you said, what they do is indeed out of your control.

And you know how lawsuits work. Anybody that's in any way involved gets named as a defendant. The argument could be the person shouldn't have given a copy without getting a signed agreement not to post the copy publicly. (It's called CYA).
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 12/21/2013 4:39 AM

And you know how lawsuits work. Anybody that's in any way involved gets named as a defendant. The argument could be the person shouldn't have given a copy without getting a signed agreement not to post the copy publicly. (It's called CYA).

This is absolute nonsense.

What would be the basis for such a lawsuit? That person A lawfully taped a meeting and lawfully gave a copy to person B, who lawfully posted it on the internet?

Just what, exactly, would form the basis of a claim for a cause of action? I am unaware of any law that would give an association or its board any expectation of privacy when conducting a board meeting, but feel free to enlighten me.

This discussion of a lawsuit is totally irresponsible. A person asked a simple question and some of you have gone off on a tangent suggesting that lawful conduct will result in a lawsuit against them without stating any basis for such a civil action. The last thing homeowners need is more fear of legal action against them from their associations. I feel sorry for you if you conduct your own life in fear of imaginary lawsuits and I would hope for the sake of your fellow homeowners that you are not in a position to influence your own associations with this same paranoid delusion.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/21/2013 12:27 PM
Posted By BruceF1 on 12/21/2013 4:39 AM

And you know how lawsuits work. Anybody that's in any way involved gets named as a defendant. The argument could be the person shouldn't have given a copy without getting a signed agreement not to post the copy publicly. (It's called CYA).


This is absolute nonsense.

Really? I know from reading about some lawsuits that have happened locally that it's not as nonsensical as it sounds. Sure, in most cases the suits against some of the named defendants often get dismissed, but there's no 100% guarantee that will happen in every case.
JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
One way of avoiding this is for the BOD to record, voice only, and if someone wants to reference it, it can be provided with some controls in place.

I wonder how old that statue is, because in today's world of youtube's, it feels as if it needs to changed to protect the board members. I can just see the "Jib Jab" videos being made now because every HOA has one lot owner who is sick enough to do it.

As a board member, I wouldn't want anyone videotaping me, let alone passing that around and if it did find it's way onto the internet in some fashion, I would consider it a copyright infringement and would sue the person who took the video as well as the person who put it online and as well the HOA because it didn't provide me the necessary protection in asserting proper bylaws for said protection. I'm not an attorney however I do know that anyone can be sued for anything, regardless if a law has been broken or not. The people in the suit still have to fight it, even if the law is crystal clear.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Yes, you can show your neighbor the video of your recent HOA meeting. Out of respect for your community, do not re-edit the footage and post it to YouTube to make a political statement. The entire neighborhood looks much worse, and you achieve nothing, in the process.

What also can be said.....HOA directors need to be willing to be transparent in meeting dealings if multi-media recording is involved, If you can't handle that scrutiny, you have no business telling your neighbors how they should manage/regulate or use their property.
JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
This topic is why this forum is so valuable, it has me looking into my rights as I do not want anyone video taping me because of the world we live in. This is not a matter of the BOD being transparent, it's a matter of personal choice. I would give consent for a voice recording however. So does a BOD member give up their personal right of privacy when they volunteer?

Researching this topic led me to this site, and it seems that it would apply here, for video or voice in my non attorney view...would all board members have to consent to being recorded? And if a majority voted to allow video taping, does that mean I have to give it up? Interesting topic...

http://www.vegress.com/index.php/can-i-record-calls-in-my-state

Florida
All parties must consent to the recording or the disclosure of the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication in Florida. Recording, disclosing, or endeavoring to disclose without the consent of all parties is a felony, unless the interception is a first offense committed without any illegal purpose, and not for commercial gain. Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03. These first offenses and the interception of cellular frequencies are misdemeanors. State v. News-Press Pub. Co., 338 So. 2d 1313 (1976).

Maryland
Under Maryland’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Act, it is unlawful to tape record a conversation without the permission of all the parties. See Bodoy v. North Arundel Hosp., 945 F.Supp. 890 (D. Md. 1996). Additionally, recording with criminal or tortuous purpose is illegal, regardless of consent. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 10-402.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I was on a Fraternal Organization's BOD where we audio taped all our BOD meetings. We also charged $25.00 per copy if any member requested such.

I have no issues being audio nor video taped while on a BOD. I say keep it all open and above board that way fewer can/will question the BOD's activities.
LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thanks all I never intended to post on the internet only to share with owners that request it or was unable to attend the meeting
LD2 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Please refer to florida statue 730.306 (10) recording. I am not an attorney but believe this association statue is not the same as the wire tapping statue as this is sneaky and unlawful.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
JOK

I believe what you referred to has nothing to do with recording an associations meetings.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 12/22/2013 6:21 AM
I do not want anyone video taping me because of the world we live in. This is not a matter of the BOD being transparent, it's a matter of personal choice.

If you attend an association meeting in some states there is a chance that you will be videotaped. That is one consequence of living within an HOA or condo and attending board meetings. BTW, the average person going about their daily lives is taped around 30 times a day by various surveillance cameras. Get used to it.

Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 12/22/2013 6:21 AM
So does a BOD member give up their personal right of privacy when they volunteer?

Yes. Serving on a board subjects the board member to the same laws that govern any other public official. If personal privacy is a first priority then one should not seek a seat on a board.

Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 12/22/2013 6:21 AM
would all board members have to consent to being recorded? And if a majority voted to allow video taping, does that mean I have to give it up?

In Florida, Arizona, and some other states the legislatures have already enacted laws to allow taping. The boards in those states have no authority to vote to allow or disallow taping as the decision has been made for them. If a board member objects to being taped his remedy is to not serve on the board. A homeowner implies his consent by attending the meeting. If he wishes to avoid being taped, his remedy is either to not attend the meeting and/or not live in an HOA or condo.

Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 12/22/2013 6:21 AM

http://www.vegress.com/index.php/can-i-record-calls-in-my-state

It may seem at first that the laws for taping meetings and taping telephone calls should be consistent. Telephone calls are communications between two people who have some expectation of privacy. A person attending an open meeting has no such expectation and the laws regarding taping phone calls have no relevance.

The laws you cited you cited are both state statutes enacted by their respective legislatures. There is no requirement that laws be consistent. For example, in Arizona it is illegal to post the home address of an elected official on the internet yet the elections department is required to do just that if the official has disclosed his home address. Go figure.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Hopefully knowing the meeting is being recorded will cause the Board members to think before they speak. Abraham Lincoln said it best: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 12/22/2013 6:21 AM
This topic is why this forum is so valuable, it has me looking into my rights as I do not want anyone video taping me because of the world we live in. This is not a matter of the BOD being transparent, it's a matter of personal choice. I would give consent for a voice recording however. So does a BOD member give up their personal right of privacy when they volunteer?

Researching this topic led me to this site, and it seems that it would apply here, for video or voice in my non attorney view...would all board members have to consent to being recorded? And if a majority voted to allow video taping, does that mean I have to give it up? Interesting topic...

http://www.vegress.com/index.php/can-i-record-calls-in-my-state

Florida
All parties must consent to the recording or the disclosure of the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication in Florida. Recording, disclosing, or endeavoring to disclose without the consent of all parties is a felony, unless the interception is a first offense committed without any illegal purpose, and not for commercial gain. Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03. These first offenses and the interception of cellular frequencies are misdemeanors. State v. News-Press Pub. Co., 338 So. 2d 1313 (1976).

Maryland
Under Maryland’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Act, it is unlawful to tape record a conversation without the permission of all the parties. See Bodoy v. North Arundel Hosp., 945 F.Supp. 890 (D. Md. 1996). Additionally, recording with criminal or tortuous purpose is illegal, regardless of consent. Md. Code Ann., Cts. & Jud. Proc. § 10-402.

Taping a meeting where the entire community is invited will not violate any law or statute as there is no perception that the conversations held at an open meeting are private in nature. I'm no lawyer but that's a simple one.

That said, if you wanna sit in the front of the room and rule over your neighbors, you must be willing to accept that your open deliberations be possibly recorded and should welcome the transparency at the expense of personal comfort. I can understand camera discomfort but transparency is key. Thought-provoking thread. Much appreciated.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 12/21/2013 1:48 PM

Really? I know from reading about some lawsuits that have happened locally that it's not as nonsensical as it sounds. Sure, in most cases the suits against some of the named defendants often get dismissed, but there's no 100% guarantee that will happen in every case.

I never rely on the news media for legal information. Whenever possible I go to the source. For example, our former county attorney was disbarred last year. The newspapers and TV covered the story, of course, but I went to the state Supreme Court website and found their report online. I read every word of the 245-page report. The media missed a lot.

Often the source for news about a "nonsensical" lawsuit comes from the guy who lost. He's the one who wants to talk and he's the one who will be interviewed.

Many years ago 60 Minutes ran a story about one of those nonsensical lawsuits. The defendant manufactured a ladder and was sued, according to the defendant, because it slipped away when the plaintiff tried to use it in a barnyard full of hog slop. Sixty Minutes spared little outrage over the multi-million dollar judgment that a really stupid jury awarded. But if you can find the actual trial transcripts, you find that the reason the ladder failed was that it was made from rotten wood. It did not slip and the plaintiff suffered severe permanent injuries when the rungs gave way. The evidence all pointed to a defective product and not to the defendant's claim of improper use. 60 Minutes got the story all wrong because they relied on the words of the losing party and not upon the findings of the court.

Most of us have acquired some amount of specialized knowledge in certain areas. Some of us might even have acquired enough knowledge in a few of those areas to be considered an expert. Every once in a while the media will run a story that touches on one my areas of expertise and they seldom get it right. Since I know they cannot get my area right, I have no reason to believe that they can get other details right.

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