Advice on making major changes to HOA

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RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Issue 1: Taking back ownership of certain common areas

Back when the units were built, every unit was given a small garden area out in the front. It consisted of a tree and three bushes and is specifically zoned as common area in our by-laws. At one point early on, the HOA tried to levy an increase in the HOA fees because maintenance of these areas was becoming too costly. The members of the HOA didn't like the idea of a fee increase, so the board decided to compromise, offering the option to allow the owners to maintain their garden and avoid an increase. The owners liked that idea better, and so the board canceled the landscaping contract and the owners were now responsible for upkeep of this area. However, the by-laws were never changed to reflect this.

Fast forward to now -- well over a decade later -- and everything's a real mess. Almost every unit owner has taken to doing something completely different to their area. Five of use have cut down our trees, some have removed their bushes and replaced them with difference species of bushes, some have grown ivy, others have flowers, and one unit has absolutely nothing but a small bush and old mulch. Where the board went wrong back in the day wasn't so much allowing the unit owners to maintain their own areas, but letting them actually do whatever they wanted.

I want to take back ownership of these common areas, but I am not sure how. Since everyone is doing something different, I think it will be difficult for any landscaping company to offer a stable consistent/stable quote. I ultimately want to bring uniformity to all of these areas, but I have no idea how without jacking up HOA fees.

Changing the color scheme of all the units

Another main goal of mine is to slowly transition all window colors from the current brown to a more standard white. Brown is so difficult to work with because, in order for a window company to match the color, they have to add hundreds onto the cost. White is not affected by this because it is essentially the default color. I am not sure how to go about this, though, without the entire community looking like a patchwork of clashing colors, some units with white windows, some with white AND brown windows, etc. Such a transition would be very slow since window replacement is the responsibility of the owner. Replacing all five windows and sliding patio door cost me $4,700, but many don't have that kind of money to spend in one shot or, if they do, may have other home improvement ideas in mind. They could probably replace a few windows, but a unit consisting of both brown and white windows would just be a mess. I need some advice on how such a slow transition could take place or whether or not it's even worth it at all.

Changing how water is metered

As stated earlier, our HOA consists of 5 buildings with 4 units to a building. Water is metered at each building rather than each unit. Therefore, it is impossible to measure how much water each unit consumes. As a result, the water usage is averaged out over everyone's HOA fees. You can probably see the problem with this. On one end of the spectrum, you have people like me who are single, living alone, take one 10-minute shower a day, two average loads of laundry per week, don't have leaky faucets, don't thaw chicken under trickling water for an hour, don't use HOA water to wash their car or water their flowers. On the other end of that spectrum, however, are people who consume tons of water, either through irresponsible practices or because there are two or three people living in the same unit. Minimalists such as myself end up paying for others' excessive water usage and I don't like the idea of that.

What I want to do is have our water metered at each individual unit and start having the water company bill the unit owners directly. The issue with actually doing this is all about cost. Once the cost is assessed, will it be worth it so that a few unit owners save $5-10 a month?

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Argh, I can't edit posts. I forget to preface my OP with this:

I want to see if anyone has good advice on these major changes/transitions I want to make to my HOA now that I am the president. Our HOA consists of 20 townhouse-style units, all of which were built in 1985. There are 4 units per building and there are 5 buildings, so take that into consideration.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

A few thoughts

The "ownership" never changed. You mean the maintenance responsibility changed, and rule enforcement stopped.

Probably the only practical way to change window color is when all windows are replaced.

You say "you" want to do these things. Do you have support of a majority of homeowners? Even if you have support from the board, you are describing things that might induce other homeowners to become upset, and maybe much more involved.

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredS7 on 11/03/2013 11:20 AM
A few thoughts

The "ownership" never changed. You mean the maintenance responsibility changed, and rule enforcement stopped.

I don't really mean ownership literally. The HOA still owns it, but has allowed the owners to pretty much do whatever they want. Technically, someone can let a shrub that they planted become overgrown and refuse to trim it even if the board orders them to. It's common area, so the owner is not responsible for it. I want to get the HOA back in charge of maintaining these areas without incurring too great of a cost to the owners.

Quote:

Posted By FredS7 on 11/03/2013 11:20 AM
You say "you" want to do these things. Do you have support of a majority of homeowners? Even if you have support from the board, you are describing things that might induce other homeowners to become upset, and maybe much more involved.

Yes, I want to do these things, but I need to scope it all out first and get my ducks in a row before I present it to the owners. Otherwise, I'd look disorganized and appear that I have no idea what I'm doing.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Ron

On the common areas, the Bylaws were never changed so at best it was done with a Rule & Regulation which can usually be changed by the BOD. The problem is some will think they are being force fed if the BOD does such. I would suggest a non-binding poll and see what happens. Many may feel like you in that it has become a hodge podge and they want control back. Be sure the poll also include any additional charges need so all understand.

Hope this helps.

SusanM22 (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

Are you the same man from Ohio who just posted this on your thread about your Condo not having a board ??

"OP reporting in with the final update.

A full board has been assembled, of which I am now the president. I took a vote via email and compiled all of the emails into a PDF. I used these minutes to get my name added to the HOA bank account. It's all official now."

Have you paused for a minute to think that perhaps you are going too fast, too far, and in the process trampling with your own Declaration of Condominium not to mention the amended Ohio Condo Act ??

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Ron,

Regarding the water meter issue. Step one would be to find out what your water provider's policy is; it may be something like one meter per building or one meter per street address. If they will not accept individual meters then you might as well take this no farther.

Step two would be to find out what the minimum charge is per meter. Even if you use zero water, they are still going to bill you for reading the meter. It could be that four individual meters at minimum charge could generate larger charges than having four units on one meter. If it is not going to save you anything there is little point in moving ahead on this.

Then you need to find out what it will cost per unit to make this change. My guess would be in the thousands per unit. Then compute how long it take to recoup that investment from the amount you will be saving.

Once you have these facts and figures, you will need to sell the idea to the rest of the board and the members. That's where you get to tell everyone that you want them to spend several thousand dollars each so you can save three dollars a month on water. Good luck.

I think it is evident that I would not endorse this idea but there is some merit to having individual water and electric meters. One issue that arises here from time to time is that in complexes where the units are all on one meter is that those who fail to pay their assessments continue to receive services without payment because there is no way to isolate the non-payers. Unfortunately, the time to install individual meters is during initial construction because the cost of retrofitting goes through the roof.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Issue 3 – of these issues, this is the one I’d start with because this can create serious cash flow problems for the association if people don’t pay assessments in full and on time. Our property manager has another client who’s set up in a similar matter and their water bill runs about $100K a year! They also have a delinquency rate around 50%, so you can imagine how this puts a crimp on their finances.
Yes, this will cost a lot of money, but the way to sell it might be to say this will save the association lots of money in the long run from delinquent homeowners – I suspect you can’t shut off the water if they don’t pay. In the meantime, there’s no incentive for people to pay close attention to how they use water because they don’t see the actual bill. Once they have to write that check themselves, they’ll change their tune.
In the meantime, see if your water company has any education materials on saving water and share that with the community – along with publishing a picture of the water bill so they can see in black and white what it’s ultimately costing everyone.

Issue 1 – I don’t know if you want to maintain all the gardens because you’d likely get into a bunch of disputes over what plants to put in it, mulch vs. decorative rocks and so on. Personally, I’d say either owners maintain the thing properly or the Association will remove it and replace it with grass at the homeowner’s expense.
Maybe you should have a meeting (you’ll probably need several) where people can brainstorm mandatory standards, such as no invasive or climbing plants, like ivy. Those standards can be written into the CCRs and then give people the option of deciding if they still want a garden. If so, they’d be given a deadline by which the garden must comply with the new standards or it will be removed at their expense. If the owner no longer wants a garden, they should be willing to pay to remove them and then the Board can replace the area with grass. If they (or future owners) later change their minds, they have to submit an ACR (architectural change request) which, of course, would have to list changes that comply with the new standards

Issue 2 – since window replacement is the owner’s responsibility, you won’t get a change overnight. Again, you may want to get a consensus among the homeowners and adopt standards that list approved colors. Grandfather in the brown windows and require an ACR when the homeowner wants to replace them.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonW7 on 11/03/2013 10:56 AM
Issue 1: Taking back ownership of certain common areas

Back when the units were built, every unit was given a small garden area out in the front. It consisted of a tree and three bushes and is specifically zoned as common area in our by-laws. At one point early on, the HOA tried to levy an increase in the HOA fees because maintenance of these areas was becoming too costly. The members of the HOA didn't like the idea of a fee increase, so the board decided to compromise, offering the option to allow the owners to maintain their garden and avoid an increase. The owners liked that idea better, and so the board canceled the landscaping contract and the owners were now responsible for upkeep of this area. However, the by-laws were never changed to reflect this.

Fast forward to now -- well over a decade later -- and everything's a real mess. Almost every unit owner has taken to doing something completely different to their area. Five of use have cut down our trees, some have removed their bushes and replaced them with difference species of bushes, some have grown ivy, others have flowers, and one unit has absolutely nothing but a small bush and old mulch. Where the board went wrong back in the day wasn't so much allowing the unit owners to maintain their own areas, but letting them actually do whatever they wanted.

I want to take back ownership of these common areas, but I am not sure how. Since everyone is doing something different, I think it will be difficult for any landscaping company to offer a stable consistent/stable quote. I ultimately want to bring uniformity to all of these areas, but I have no idea how without jacking up HOA fees.

Changing the color scheme of all the units

Another main goal of mine is to slowly transition all window colors from the current brown to a more standard white. Brown is so difficult to work with because, in order for a window company to match the color, they have to add hundreds onto the cost. White is not affected by this because it is essentially the default color. I am not sure how to go about this, though, without the entire community looking like a patchwork of clashing colors, some units with white windows, some with white AND brown windows, etc. Such a transition would be very slow since window replacement is the responsibility of the owner. Replacing all five windows and sliding patio door cost me $4,700, but many don't have that kind of money to spend in one shot or, if they do, may have other home improvement ideas in mind. They could probably replace a few windows, but a unit consisting of both brown and white windows would just be a mess. I need some advice on how such a slow transition could take place or whether or not it's even worth it at all.

Changing how water is metered

As stated earlier, our HOA consists of 5 buildings with 4 units to a building. Water is metered at each building rather than each unit. Therefore, it is impossible to measure how much water each unit consumes. As a result, the water usage is averaged out over everyone's HOA fees. You can probably see the problem with this. On one end of the spectrum, you have people like me who are single, living alone, take one 10-minute shower a day, two average loads of laundry per week, don't have leaky faucets, don't thaw chicken under trickling water for an hour, don't use HOA water to wash their car or water their flowers. On the other end of that spectrum, however, are people who consume tons of water, either through irresponsible practices or because there are two or three people living in the same unit. Minimalists such as myself end up paying for others' excessive water usage and I don't like the idea of that.

What I want to do is have our water metered at each individual unit and start having the water company bill the unit owners directly. The issue with actually doing this is all about cost. Once the cost is assessed, will it be worth it so that a few unit owners save $5-10 a month?

1) If the "garden areas" are still considered to be common area and this was never changed then the Board has the right to assume responsibility for the common areas. The hook is the Association is also obligated to pay for the upkeep and maintenance of the common areas and to do a complete landscaping "recovery", it is going to cost the Association money. If it is a aesthetic look with conformity that you are desiring, then a landscaping company would have to come in, remove things and replace them with the appropriate plants and trees.
2) You can't force the owners to get new windows. I am wondering if you could negotiate a bulk rate per building and if all owners are willing to pay then maybe you could get the work done at a discount?
3) Is the water company even willing to install meters for each townhouse? Is there already some pre-existing contract with the water company? Some owners might be willing to pay for water meters because they don't use a lot of water but I doubt anyone who uses a lot of water is going to buy into that plan.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Solve the common area maintenance policy change before considering any other steps of your reform plan. Landscaping isn't something that comes on the cheap. Look at what you have now for zero cost to your HOA.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Here is some friendly advice from a former President who has been where you are at...

1. THE MONEY IN A HOA IS NOT YOUR MONEY!!! IT IS ALL THE MEMBER'S MONEY IN THE HOA! Regardless of the participation level in your HOA, you as President represent the HOA as a WHOLE. The first priority in most member's mind is paying all the bills on time and in full. After that, it is what the majority of the residents want. They want to paint the roads "red", then your job as President is to find out the laws on that, and budget for the red paint/labor.

The landscaping thing is most likely too far gone now to address. We have a similar situation at our HOA. However, we have what is called "Exclusive" use areas and Common areas. We paid for lawncare to take care of the common areas. Our definition of lawncare is the "grassy" areas only. That could include the back yards if unfenced or unlocked. Otherwise lawncare just took care of the mowing of the grass. In our CC&R's the HOA's ONLY responsibility was to provide lawncare. If you wanted the bushes cut or other items like that, you paid for it or did it yourself.

Don't think the whole "brown" window thing is going to ever fly. Find a different manufacturer who offers the product cheaper. Don't think the quote you are going with is quite right. There's not much of a mark up on the color frames where I am from. Even if there were, then it's the requirement. Otherwise things will mismatch for years even when your not in office.

The water issue... We went through that. First off to install the separate water meters is up to the water supply resource. Ours is our city. They charged us about $20K to dig up and put the pipes/meters in. That was a $350 special assessment for each owner to pay up before the installation. Which the special assessment process alone can take months or years in our case to do. Then once you get the separate water meters, this has to be changed in your CC&R's. Another special vote, a lawyer, and a few thousand dollars. Which would entail another special assessment to pay for the lawyer bill if necessary. Not saying it's not worth the effort. It was with us. However, we also had to turn our roads into public roads in addition... It's just understand the cost load of this benefit in order to get anyone to want to do it. It may be cheaper to keep it in the HOA budget...

Former HOA President

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/03/2013 1:15 PM
Ron

On the common areas, the Bylaws were never changed so at best it was done with a Rule & Regulation which can usually be changed by the BOD. The problem is some will think they are being force fed if the BOD does such. I would suggest a non-binding poll and see what happens. Many may feel like you in that it has become a hodge podge and they want control back. Be sure the poll also include any additional charges need so all understand.

Hope this helps.

John, the following provision in the by-laws specifically states that adopted rules cannot conflict with the provisions of the by-laws:

"In the event that adopted rules and regulations conflict with any provisions of the Declaration or of these By-Laws, the rules and regulations of the Declaration and these By-Laws shall govern."

We'd have to change the by-laws in order to officially shift responsibility of these common areas to the unit owner.

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/06/2013 10:13 AM
Here is some friendly advice from a former President who has been where you are at...

1. THE MONEY IN A HOA IS NOT YOUR MONEY!!! IT IS ALL THE MEMBER'S MONEY IN THE HOA!

I agree, and I address this response to any others in this thread who may have been under the impression that I have not personally acknowledged this. I am in a scoping phase right now where I am looking at all the things that I would like done with the community. I am using this forum as my scratch pad where I just throw out ideas of mine and get feedback from others. This allows me, as I've stated in an earlier post, to get all my ducks in a row before presenting my ideas to the members of the HOA. This way, I look more focused and organized, an attribute I feel is important for an HOA president. Due to responses I've received about the windows, I will likely drop the idea as it indeed appears as difficult/implausible as I originally thought. However, I am still going to pursue the garden/water issue.

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/06/2013 10:13 AM
The landscaping thing is most likely too far gone now to address. We have a similar situation at our HOA. However, we have what is called "Exclusive" use areas and Common areas. We paid for lawncare to take care of the common areas. Our definition of lawncare is the "grassy" areas only. That could include the back yards if unfenced or unlocked. Otherwise lawncare just took care of the mowing of the grass. In our CC&R's the HOA's ONLY responsibility was to provide lawncare. If you wanted the bushes cut or other items like that, you paid for it or did it yourself.

I have thought about this one long and hard and I think I am come to a solution that I will take to the board. I want to "lock down" all garden areas and advise all owners that they are not to conduct any maintenance or make any modifications to their areas. I will take pictures of all areas so that I can make comparisons at any point in the future. I will have a landscaping company simply care for these areas (trim trees, bushes, kill weeds, etc). Over time, I will normalize all garden areas at a rate of about one area every one to two months. This will spread out the cost out a lot further and would probably be the best route. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

That is what we are here for. To bounce ideas off of. For your garden issue, I see some red flags. One's that I have experienced and are most likely addressed in your documents already. There is a term called "Exclusive use" within the common area. That exclusive use area is for the enjoyment and care of the owners. It is within the common area and may just be a small area like flower perimeter around the house or in our case parts of the front yard. We had extremely small yards. Each one being different.

That is why we defined the "common area" as the "GRASSY" areas without vegetation or gardening. That meant that the lawncare people ONLY mowed and took care of the grassy areas. The exclusive use areas were to be maintained by the owners. The owners could pay the lawncare people privately to assist but that was between each other. We did have a weed control contract that came out a few times a year to address the weeds that is separate from our lawncare. That was Tru-Green who was to spray the grassy areas to keep weeds down.

Our lawncare bill was about 2500 a month for about 7 months a year. However, they came by in the winter and fall to blow off leaves and do a little maintenance. Contracts typically start around April or May to begin lawncare. Use only 1 year contacts as well.

Former HOA President

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/09/2013 7:46 AM
That is what we are here for. To bounce ideas off of. For your garden issue, I see some red flags. One's that I have experienced and are most likely addressed in your documents already. There is a term called "Exclusive use" within the common area. That exclusive use area is for the enjoyment and care of the owners. It is within the common area and may just be a small area like flower perimeter around the house or in our case parts of the front yard. We had extremely small yards. Each one being different.

Included below is every paragraph from our by-laws and declaration that contains the word "exclusive use". In using OCR software to convert the original paper copies into a text-based PDF, I've had to read over this thing several times. In doing so, I found no mention at all that the garden area was deemed as "exclusive use" for the unit owner. Also attached is our property drawing. The yellow area in the diagram is the garden area that I speak of. The legend has this deemed as common area. Okay, so I am trying to upload a picture as an attachment, but it's telling me "invalid file type", so I guess JPGs are invalid types. Oh well.

Exclusive Use. The Owners of a Unit shall have the right of exclusive possession, use and enjoyment of the surfaces of all of its perimeter walls, fixtures and other parts of the building within the boundary of their respective Unit, including the right to paint, tile, wax, paper or otherwise finish and re-finish or decorate the Unit.

Care of Certain Limited Common Areas and Facilities. The Association shall pay cost of maintenance, repair, cleaning and replacement of those Common Areas which are designated by the Declaration as Limited Common Areas and Facilities for the exclusive use of all the Units in a particular building, unless such cost is to be paid by the Unit Owner as provided in the Declaration.

All fixtures located within the bounds of the Units, installed in and for the exclusive use of said Unit, commencing at the point of disconnection from the structural body of the building and from utility pipes, lines or systems serving the entire building or more than one Unit thereof;

All plumbing, electrical, heating, and other utility service lines, pipes, wires, ducts and conduits which serve only one Unit shall be Limited Common Areas and Facilities for the exclusive use of the Unit served thereby.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

So who will determine what normal is? Are you going to bring in several companies to draw up proposals and then have the membership vote on it?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

How is your HOA set up? Is it separate homes or is it a condo like setting? That could help define this issue better. Also there should be a section on landscaping. What you posted seems to focus on shared building property and not lawncare. Our HOA CC&R's state plainly that the HOA responsibility is lawncare. It then breaks down that definition a bit.

Basically in our HOA, you own the lot and the house it sits on. Everything else outside of that is considered "Common property" with exclusive use areas.

Former HOA President

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinK7 on 11/10/2013 2:40 AM
So who will determine what normal is? Are you going to bring in several companies to draw up proposals and then have the membership vote on it?

The board will ultimately decide what is "normal" since, according to the by-laws, it has control over all common areas, of which the garden area is a part. However, the board will hear the opinions and concerns of the residents. Yes, several companies will be contacted so that we can get the most competitive quotes.

I am also considering finding out what it would cost to completely wipe out all landscaping in these areas and turn them into fenced-in, concrete patios. That would have a high up-front cost, but would have absolutely no maintenance.

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/10/2013 7:51 AM
How is your HOA set up? Is it separate homes or is it a condo like setting? That could help define this issue better. Also there should be a section on landscaping. What you posted seems to focus on shared building property and not lawncare. Our HOA CC&R's state plainly that the HOA responsibility is lawncare. It then breaks down that definition a bit.

Basically in our HOA, you own the lot and the house it sits on. Everything else outside of that is considered "Common property" with exclusive use areas.

Here's the diagram I tried uploading her yesterday:

http://tinypic.com/r/w89jbr/5

They are two-story townhomes with four units all side by side within a building. I highlighted the garden spot to accentuate the area, but it really applies to all white/unfilled areas of the diagram (yards, streets, sidewalks, etc). Here's more on common areas from our by-laws and declaration:

Care of Common Areas and Facilities. The Association shall pay the cost of landscaping, gardening, snow removal, painting, cleaning, maintenance, decorating, repair and replacement of Common Areas.

COMMON AREA AND FACILITIES. The entire land and improvements thereon not included within a Unit shall be Common Areas and Facilities, including, but not limited to, the driveways, sidewalks, yards, parking areas, all plumbing, electrical, heating, and other utility service lines, pipes, wires, ducts and conduits which serve more than one Unit or for a common purpose of the building, covering material of the building, gutters, downspouts, exterior lighting fixtures, hose bibs and other facilities to service the Common Areas and Facilities that are attached to the building, foundation, perimeter walls, roofs and all other parts of the building, necessary or convenient to its existence, maintenance, safety or normally in common use by more than one of the Owners. The division of walls separating one Unit from another Unit are Common Areas and Facilities.

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