Nominating committee

Has your nominating committee every disqualified someone who wanted to run?

It seems to me that the president appointing the committee can lead to some sort of problems, e.g., the president appoints those who'll select candidates that the president wants on the board. The names the committee recommends might have an edge depending on your members' opinions of the Board. It also seems that absentee owners, if you have many, would tend to follow the committee's recommendations.

Anyway, we use a nominating committee because our bylaws require one. But the Board appoints them. All they do is meet with our PM who confirms that the candidates are owners of record, which our bylaws also require. The committee doesn't make recommendations.

Are the rules you stated, JohnB67, in your bylaws? Or in FL laws for your type of HOA?

With out a lot of specifics, I believe Nominating Committees are simply a way of controlling things as some want. Does smoke filled backroom ring a bell?

I say do away with Nominating Committees.

Have an Election Committee to verify someone is eligible to run (even up to a moment before the election such as a nomination from the floor) but let who ever is eligible to run, run. They do not have to be nominated by a bunch of people in a smoke filled back room.

That's true regardless of the state. Roberts is on the bottom of the list. Federal and state laws, CCRs (Declaration) and Bylaws always take precedence. Roberts will even tell you that.

In Connecticut, we are required by statute to use Roberts.

The rules I described are written into the Bylaws of our Homeowner's Association. They seem to be rather undemocratic. I wonder if they are mirrored in other Associations in Florida. I have not been able to obtain a list of Homeowners Associations, so it is not even possible for me to contact some of them to get a sample of practices.

Any suggestions?

Since I'm from VA, and per Susan what I think doesn't really matter, I'd like to add some clarification to what Susan posted.

First of all, here are links to the citations:

Rule: 61B-23.0021 of the FL Administrative code (last amended in 2006).

FL 718 see 718.112 - Bylaws.

The FL Admin Code is where it specifically states that "A board of administration shall not create or appoint any committee for the purpose of nominating a candidate or candidates for election to the board."

Basically, according to the Statute, 718.112(2)(d)4.a.

" Any unit owner or other eligible person desiring to be a candidate for the board must give written notice of his or her intent to be a candidate to the association at least 40 days before a scheduled election"

This section of the statute is echoed in the FL Administrative Code.

Again, as Susan pointed out, this only applies to Condominiums.

I left out something relevant. All new FL Condo directors elected or appointed must get "certificated" within 90 days after election. They either sign an affidavit or take the "certification" course. There are dozens of towns were this "course" can be taken for FREE. In what county are you John ?? Are you planning to run for your Condo board ??

We are a group of Homeowners in Florida. Can the Condo statutes apply?

I have checked the Condo section 718 and the Homeowners section 720. The Homeowners statute has no restrictions on Nominating Committees, as does the statute 718 for condominiums.

I stand corrected. Susan did ask but never received an answer from you.

I stand corrected again.

The first post from JohnB after the question was asked implied that they were not in a condominium association.

It appears to be a case of the regular posters (myself included)wanting to share their knowledge but failed to realize that they were not actually answering the question asked by the OP.

Susan,

As I posted earlier, I stood corrected and stated that you had asked.

Although many call their Associations HOA's, I think that once the question is asked and the response is HOA, why would we question them futher about it (much less imply that they are playing a cat and mouse game).

John had also responded that "The rules I described are written into the Bylaws of our Homeowner's Association."

I agree that, especially in FL, there is a big difference between the types of Associations and what statutes are applicable.

I will also admit that I failed to fully read the OP's posts. Otherwise, I would not have gone on about condominiums, as doing so has the potential to lead to confusion. As I said, it appears to be a case where the willingness to share knowledge simply failed to answer the actual question of the OP.

Susan,

You seem to take things way, way to personal.

Since you asked, and let me be very clear, I have not questioned your knowledge. I've stated previously that your advice and comments about Associations were excellent. I've said that I believe that you can be an excellent resource on this site for others.

In my opinion, your posts often contain snide comments and one upmanships. This gives me the impression (and it may or may not give that same impression to others) that you seem to be more concerned about showing others you are right and how knowledgeable you are than in simply answering questions asked. There is certainly times when "tough love" is called for in this forum. However, I personally believe that this can be done while still showing respect for others.

You've previously cited your credentials and licenses. As I've said previously, to me, licenses and credentials means very little. To me it simply indicates that that the individual was able to retain enough knowledge to pass a test or stay awake long enough to participate in a lecture for continuing education credits. It is zero indication of what they have actually learned or if they are able to utilize that information properly. The fact that you own one, none or multiple properties indicates nothing more to me than the simple fact that you prefer to invest in real estate.

However, this is the first time you have cited your work experience. That actually does impress me. To me, this shows that you don't just retain knowledge but that you are able to apply that knowledge to the real world. As I said earlier, you can be an excellent resource on this site.

As for me, I have no credentials dealing with Associations. What knowledge I've gotten about associations has come from research, discussing issues with others and the school of real life applications by serving in various jobs within my Association. My military training has provided me with an extensive education in reading, understanding and implementing government regulations. My military assignments provided excellent training in dealing with people, especially when I supervised over 100 sailors. My experience in Broadcasting and working with joint task forces has help me to understand that there is more than one perspective for every issue you encounter and that someone who doesn't have the book knowledge or experience may be the one individual with that unique perspective to resolve the issue you are currently dealing with.

There, now you have some idea of who I am.

BTW, I wasn't intending to criticize. In addition to admitting that I had made mistakes of not fully reading John's post, I was also attempting to demonstrate an issue I see with your communication skills. That issue being your style of posting (as discussed earlier).

I do this because I apparently see things from a different perspective than you. Perhaps, if you're willing to see things from a different perspective, or at least be open minded when others explain their perspective, everyone can learn from the experience.

I have done this in the past and will likely do it again in the future. I would hope others would be willing to do this to me as well, preferably showing the same respect I am showing them OR perhaps being the bigger person and showing more respect than they think I deserve.

Tim has helped countless posters with grace, care and supreme patience. He often finds the appropriate state statutes for others. I believe I speak for many others by saying I've learned a lot from Tim.

What most of us on this forum share is that we volunteer or have volunteered for leadership roles in our HOAs. We come to this forum to learn and maybe help others.

Only time will tell if you possess the temperament, Susan, to be an effective participant at this site. So far, your flashes of anger and ego are hampering your effectiveness.

This is what I posted earlier this morning.

"John in FL. I'd suggest that you quit playing "cat & mouse." This site has wonderful and knowlegeable people who are willing and able to answer questions to the best of their ability, and offer helpful suggestions. However, you should act in a mature manner and present your particular situation or dilemma with as much detail as possible so that we can all have a better understanding of your circumstances and goals."

Tim, please refrain from further "conversation" about your personal views, opinions, etc. Stay the course and stay on topic. The rest is just disruptive "noise."

I am impressed with the number and enthusiasm of the responses to my initial inquiry. I must apologize for not including the essential information in the first inquiry, i.e., whether it is a Condominium or Homeowners Association.

As you can see from my second posting yesterday, it is a Homeowners Association. That presents somewhat of a dilemma for everyone, since Florida does not prohibit Nominating Committees for Homeowners Associations. That is why I am so glad to have found this forum, since the accumulated knowledge of a large group of experienced participants might shed some light on the problem.

Is our Nominating Committee truly unusual? Can I tell the other owners that we have a relatively rare situation? Is the common practice different from ours? That information would seem to be essential to any attempt to democratize the process.

Along those lines I have been trying to get real data on how other Homeowners Associations elect Board members. Having not yet gotten to first base with that statistic, I hope that someone here nay have some insight into the situation.

John,

Start with your statutes. There may be one or more statutes that apply to your association. I understand Florida has a different statutes for Condominium Associations and for Homeowners Associations. Here, in Connecticut, we have one statute that covers both. Start with the statute that applies to your association. Also, if your association is incorporated you are likely covered by any statutes governing corporations. There may also be different statutes governing corporations. These statutes can cover stock corporations, non-stock corporations, profit-making corporations, non-profit or not-for-profit corporations. Different states use different terms. Choose the statute that applies to your association.

Now, if any of the applicable statutes prohibit nominating committees, that's the end of it. They are not allowed. However, if your statutes are silent on the matter or otherwise allow nominating committees, then you should turn to your documents to see if nominating committees are prohibited, allowed, or required.

Typically, nominating committees, if they are to exist, are specified or authorized in the bylaws, but they don't have to be. I belong to one organization that does have a nominating committee. The bylaws for that organization specify how many members are on the nominating committee, how the members are selected, and how the committee is to function. The bylaws also allow for nominations from the floor.

Our Homeowners Association does not use a nominating committee. Prior to the annual election members may "self-nominate" by announcing their candidacy and submitting a resume or statement to the property manager who publishes and distributes them prior to the annual meeting. These are distributed to the homeowners when the meeting notices and proxies are sent.
At the annual meeting additional nominations may be made from the floor.

If your bylaws doesn't specify a nominating committee it doesn't mean you can't have one. Possibly, your board could specify a nominating committee, or maybe even your president, but only if your bylaws authorizes such authority or power. Also, the members themselves could elect to have a nominating committee are specify its members. That would be the more democratic process.

Regardless of whether there is a nominating committee or not, accepted standard parliamentary procedure always allows for nominations from the floor. This is based on the democratic principle that one can write the name of any individual on the ballot. In my local election I could write in my own name for a member of the town council, state representative, or whatever, and my vote would be counted. Check the ballots in your own election. Most likely you will find a blank space for each office where you can write in anybody's name.

True, some organizations may not typically allow or encourage nominations from the floor. But, there are those who would consider such a process to be undemocratic and not in the best interests of the membership. Certainly, a process that does not allow for nominations from the floor is operating contrary to accepted parliamentary procedure.

PS. I do not consider all the valuable information I had posted about FL Condos a waste of my time. There are thousands upon thousands of "silent" members on this forum and some may be Florida Condo owners.

This was actually discussed in this forum earlier.

FL CS/HS 7119, as it relates to certification of Board members, is really nothing more than a feel good bill.

FL 720.3033 simply states that "Within 90 days after being elected or appointed to the board, each director shall certify in writing to the secretary of the association that he or she has read the association’s declaration of covenants, articles of incorporation, bylaws, and current written rules and policies. . ."

Now, if the Director doesn't want to sign such a statement, they are required to provide certification that they have "satisfactorily completed the educational curriculum" outlined by the State.

First and foremost, having read a document is not the same as understanding the document. Therefore, any statement saying that someone has read a set of documents doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that they signed the piece of paper. One would expect that the individual signing the statement had actually read the documents, but the character of the individual may simply sign the statement without reading it.

Second, given a choice between spending even more time away from your family by attending classes in order to volunteer your time to serve on the Board and simply signing a statement, which do you think most individuals would choose?

Third, The only penalty for not having a written statement on file is suspension from the Board until the statement is filed with the Board secretary. Of course, there is no method of verification for such action (at this time) except by the membership examining the statements. The law also states the failure to have the written certification or educational certificate on file does not affect the validity of any board action.

This is why I believe that the law is nothing more than a feel good law. Legislatures can pat themselves on the back saying they did something. Some members of Associations will mistakenly think that this will keep their board from not complying with the documents. Some individuals or companies will gain some money by holding classes that others can take (if they so choose) to satisfy that requirement. If the classes cost money, some Associations assessments may go up to pay for their Board to attend those classes.

Susan,

If you disagree with my analysis of that section of the bill, fine.
Rather than resort to name calling (which you tend to do a lot with those who disagree with you), why not debate the issues, in this case the specifics of that section of the bill and FL 720.303.3?

BTW, I have lived in FL before.
No, I didn't own property there or serve on any Association in FL. However, I do believe that regardless of what State you live in, you should be able to read and understand governmental laws and regulations.

Meant to say, I use my real name.

PS. Show some respect and stay on topic opposed to deliverately gutting the thread with your insatiable appetite for argumentative diatribe.

So I take it them you aren't licensed, in Florid, as you say and someone called you on it.

If that was directed at me, I was staying on topic. You were the one who brought up the need for certification of the elected Directors. I expect that you brought this up because it is related nominations (letting the nominee know that this will be a requirement if they are elected).

BTW, it takes a minimum of two individuals to argue. Glad to see you are holding up your end of the relationship (intended as humor)

Our nomination procedure? If you were an owner, breath, and raised your hand at the annual election meeting in January you were in. We lowered the number of required board members from 7 to 5 while I was in office, so it made it much easier to get 5 hands up. I don't recall ever having enough hands raised to volunteer even with that number. Funny thing is, most would ask "What does a board member do?". Once answered hands would suddenly drop or they would say "okay" if we ever had too many hands raised.

My last year in office we started out with 7 board/officer members. The last of that year, I had ONLY a Vice-President and myself left. Even I had moved out a few months before the next election. (I moved to the neighborhood next door and my HOA house was rental). Our documents did not allow for appointments to positions to be filled and had to wait until the next election in order to fill in our board positions and mine. People started calling me "dictator". My response was "Are you volunteering to fill on of the vacant spots?". No one volunteered... Hence, even if I appointed someone they wouldn't have done the job anyways.

So when it comes to the "Official legal election" process you can all fight it out all you want. Reality is what reality is. Members have to realize there is no "They or Them" but ONLY "Themselves and their neighbors". You have to do what you have to do to get the job done in the end. A HOA is to create and live by the rules it wants. A rule doesn't work, you work on changing it. Simple as that. Election process doesn't work? Then fix it, document it, and live with it. That's just my opinion...

Oh I don't use my real name on here for protection...Lesson learned a long time ago...