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BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
My HOA has CC&Rs that clearly state that garages are not to be used for storage, but we have many residents (owners and renters) who do instead of parking their vehicle in them. This creates many parking problems for everyone, but I want to focus my question of the enforcement the storage problem.

There are five parking spaces per garage. The garages are exclusive-use common area, owned by the Association, but the management company does not have keys or remotes to get into the garages. Besides, the idea of garage inspections will have everyone up in arms, including non-violators.

I have been told this is "un-enforcable" and is an invasion of privacy.

I'm just putting this out there to see if anyone has come up with an ingenious way to enforce this.

I have searched past posts about this, but didn't find anything recent on this topic.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Beth
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
If the garages are a common area, owned by the HOA, there should be no invasion of privacy. If storage is not allowed, the only thing an inspection would see is a car or an empty garage with nothing in it. If the HOA owns it, there is no issue with inspections, it's not theirs. Similar to a HOA owned deck/patio or parking garage with exclusive spots.

So you either need to enforce parking limits, or enforce garage storage issue.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Have you talked to your board about this? If not, that's where you should start. You might also want to talk to some of your neighbors (homeowners) and see if they're having a problem because of the storage issue. If so, all of you need to go to the board to discuss enforcement.

I'm not sure about the invasion of privacy argument (unless someone's going through the storage stuff), and as for the unenforceable part, it would appear you'd have to notify the owner, give him/her a chance to move the stuff or file an appeal. If they refuse, the board might be able to issue a fine (check your documents first!) or consider legal action. So the issue might not be that the CCRs are unenforceable but impractical (or no one wants to go through all that trouble, because it would create an uproar, as you stated.)

Are there any parts of the common area where free standing storage sheds can be built or purchased and people told to put their stuff in those places only? The owners could buy their own shed and be responsible for maintenance or the Association could buy them and assign a shed to each homeowner. Once the sheds are installed, give everyone a deadline to get their stuff out the garage and if they don't, it'll be considered abandoned and the association will get rid of it.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I am on the Board. The problem is the management company does not have access to the garages and the doors are never opened, so we can't even see inside the garages to send a violation notice, but some of the garages have been packed full of junk for years. Neighbors complain all the time, but we can't do anything.

Building a storage shed is an interesting idea I had not heard before, but we don't have space for it and those homeowners who are in compliance would end up paying for those who are not. That would not be fair. Those residents that have too much junk should be the ones paying for storage, but from their point of view, why should they when its free in their garage.

I'm just hoping to get some new ideas on how to enforce this.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I am on the Board. The problem is the management company does not have access to the garages and the doors are never opened, so we can't even see inside the garages to send a violation notice, but some of the garages have been packed full of junk for years. Neighbors complain all the time, but we can't do anything.

Building a storage shed is an interesting idea I had not heard before, but we don't have space for it and those homeowners who are in compliance would end up paying for those who are not. That would not be fair. Those residents that have too much junk should be the ones paying for storage, but from their point of view, why should they when its free in their garage.

I'm just hoping to get some new ideas on how to enforce this.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 10/29/2013 8:20 AM
If the garages are a common area, owned by the HOA, there should be no invasion of privacy. If storage is not allowed, the only thing an inspection would see is a car or an empty garage with nothing in it. If the HOA owns it, there is no issue with inspections, it's not theirs. Similar to a HOA owned deck/patio or parking garage with exclusive spots.

So you either need to enforce parking limits, or enforce garage storage issue.

Except for the "exclusive use" part of it. I would expect that to also mean the board has no right to enter without permission.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Beth,

First of all, most new homes don't plan for storage. Therefore, owners are limited on what can go where. That said, you're trying to enforce the wrong thing.

If you really wanted to enforce the storage issue you concentrate on the vehicles.

Example:

1) Adopt a rule that between the hours of x and y vehicles parked in the development must first be parked in the garage and then in the driveway.

2) Institute mandatory parking stickers.

3) Due to the stickers, you now know how many vehicles belong at each residence. Between the hours of x and y patrol the area. If a garage can hold 2 vehicles and the owner has three vehicles with stickers, if more than one vehicle with a sticker is parked in the driveway, you know that they are violating the parking rule. It doesn't matter if they are using their garage for storage or not, they must fit their vehicles in the garage between the hours of x and y or be in violation of the rules/regs.

Now, with that all said, if someone tried to institute such a plan in my development I would be leading the charge to kick those members off of the Board and replace them with others who wouldn't institute such procedures.

However, it is an option to obtain what you are trying to obtain.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Good idea tim.
ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Our 2 car garages are private and the rules also state they can only be used for parking. Few use them for parking. It will be very difficult to enforce what goes on inside a garage. So like Tim says concentrate on enforcing the parking outside of them. This is your best bet.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
I have seen a set of CCRs that clearly state that garage are strictly for storage vehicles. Each unit has a 2-car garage.They apply for a parking permit, but only have two cars. There is 106 units with 71 additional, outside parking spaces. This is a condo.

What do you do?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Richard,

Are you saying that the parking permit is only to use the additional parking spaces or is the parking permit to park a vehicle on the property?

I would require parking permits for all vehicles. This way, based on permits, you now know how many vehicles each unit claims to have. Then if you see a vehicle with in the additional spaces, you can verify if it should be parked in the garage (based on that unit only having two vehicles registered) or if it can be parked in the additional space.

I would also make the additional space a first come first served vs. assigned.

Don't forget to include guest passes that can be checked out at the office or through security.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
What we did at the complex was assigned a numbered pass for each unit that was current in their assessments (parking in common area. We have two handicap spaces marked out and the other 69 spaces are first come first served. If you come home late and want to park in one of the spaces, good luck. I found I didn't want to go to each of the units and policing their storage issue. Maybe if they continually have to park on the street outside the gates they will use their garage for parking.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 11/05/2013 11:30 AM

Maybe if they continually have to park on the street outside the gates they will use their garage for parking.

That typically works just as well if not better than other enforcement actions.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
imo: 'only used for parking' is intended to prevent conversion into liveable space or entertainment space

where i decide to park my stuff is really no ones business

i can park my butt somewhere

i can park my bicycle somewhere

i can park my duffle bags somewhere

from Merriam Webster:

Full Definition of PARK
transitive verb
1: to enclose in a park
2a (1) : to bring (a vehicle) to a stop and keep standing at the edge of a public way (2) : to leave temporarily on a public way or in a parking lot or garage b : to land and leave (as an airplane) c : to establish (as a satellite) in orbit
3a : to set and leave temporarily b : to place, settle, or establish especially for a considerable time
intransitive verb
: to park a vehicle
— park·er noun
See park defined for English-language learners »
Examples of PARK
I couldn't find anywhere to park.
I parked on the street.
I parked the car on the street.
Cars are only allowed to park on the right side of this street.
The bus parked behind the museum.
Park your bags in the hallway.
She parked the money in a savings account and forgot about it for several years.

ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 11/06/2013 2:33 PM
imo: 'only used for parking' is intended to prevent conversion into liveable space or entertainment space

where i decide to park my stuff is really no ones business



This further underlines the advisability of Tim's recommendation. Concentrate on enforcing the parking outside the garages. Attempting to enforce what goes in someone elses' garage is very difficult.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
..... and NONE of your business !
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
I feel I need to repost this section.

Even though I provided a method to help the OP and others enforce parking in garages, I did plainly state:

Now, with that all said, if someone tried to institute such a plan in my development I would be leading the charge to kick those members off of the Board and replace them with others who wouldn't institute such procedures.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I would agree that it is none of anyone's business IF the garages were purchased as part of the unit, but the unit in our case is walls-in air space only. The owner does not own the garage. The association does. They are just given exclusive use of them with rules attached. In our case all of the garages are located under other people's units, so the association has the responsibility to make sure what ever is in that garage isn't a hazard to the residents that live above them (for example, flammable, explosive, toxic mold, etc.)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 11/14/2013 3:52 PM
I would agree that it is none of anyone's business IF the garages were purchased as part of the unit, but the unit in our case is walls-in air space only. The owner does not own the garage. The association does. They are just given exclusive use of them with rules attached.

When there is differing opinions amongst the BOD, the Board should consider seeking a legal opinion on the issue.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Thanks very much for the clarification, Beth. Your situation, then, is similar to the storage locker rooms in our garages. There are 213 lockers in 21 rooms. The appx. 5X8X8H lockers are of wood and chicken wire so some of the contents are visible. They are deed to owners, but are exclusive use common areas and we, too, have rules about not storing toxics, infammables in them, items on top of these "cages," etc.

We have 3 garage levels so lockers are below and above garage areas, equipment rooms, etc. I assume your Board legally could access them in cases of "emergency," as we may. Yes, get an attorney's advice about the extent to which you may enforce your rules.

Meantime, I like Tim's idea the best.
ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 11/14/2013 4:53 PM

Meantime, I like Tim's idea the best.

Except if you read the earlier post you will notice that Tim is opposed to actually enforcing such ideas! Hard to understand.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasD2 on 11/15/2013 9:41 AM
Posted By CarolR11 on 11/14/2013 4:53 PM
Meantime, I like Tim's idea the best.


Except if you read the earlier post you will notice that Tim is opposed to actually enforcing such ideas! Hard to understand.

Not really. I just looked at the issue from both sides.

If I was on the Board and required to enforce such a rule, I provided the best method I can come up with to do the enforcement. Having the duty to enforce, I would enforce but work to change it (as I am actually against such a limitation). I hate enforcing the rules I agree with, but that is part of the job I volunteered for. I figure that since I had the task, the least I can do is make sure enforcement is done equally across the membership.

If I was just a member, I would do as I posted earlier: Lead the charge against such action, which would start with a recall of the Board and then an amendment to the governing document that specified that limitation.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Right, Thomas, I noticed that tim walked around the topic and viewed it from a couple of different vantage points.
ThomasD2 (California)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 11/15/2013 10:04 AM
Right, Thomas, I noticed that tim walked around the topic and viewed it from a couple of different vantage points.

I support the idea of walking around the cars, viewing them from a few different vantage points -- and then issuing a ticket if they are parked illegally.

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