Christmas vs Holiday

Started by PeggyA4 • 23 replies • 2098 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

PeggyA4 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2

Posted:

For several years, we have had a "Christmas House Decorating Contest". The winners got signs to post in their front yards. This year, it was suggested that the Social Committee rename this event to "Holiday House Decorating Contest". The committee, consisting of eight members, agreed that this was appropriate. At the next meeting, a member of the committee strongly objected to the new name. Since there are members of many faiths, as well as agnostics and atheists, living in our community, the intent of the new name was to be inclusive and not offend anyone. Has any group dealt with this problem in the past?

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Peggy,

Your HOA, being a private organization, is best-suited to gauge how much political correction is required to satisfy your residents. If there are no residential complaints, there is no problem with your current plans.
If there is a sizable non-Christian population in your neighborhood, I'd rather see the HOA foster development of new celebrations rather than the diminishing of Christmas, which offends Christians (but is socially acceptable in the current political climate). There is room for all in my opinion instead of room for none.

My blustering aside, our HOA does not engage in holiday events in an official capacity as we focus on business matters and a large property maintenance plan but we're also not in the holiday regulation business. As a president, I'd likely oppose an officially-sanctioned Christmas or any holiday policies simply because the other factors of our "business" consume enough time as it is.

LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220

Posted:

We call ours a Christmas decorating contest. No one has complained so far, and I know we have folks of other religions in our community.

Do folks really decorate for Hannukah or Kwanzaa? Is a 6-foot-tall inflatable snow globe really saying "Happy Birthday, Jesus!" anyhow?

One thing I've learned in life is that some folks just need something to pick about.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

if you called it a 'Christ Mass' decorating party would anyone take offense ?

how about an 'Allah' decorating party ?

a 'Satan' party ?

the association has NO BUSINESS involving itself with ANY religious holiday !

the Republic of the United States of America was formed as a REPUBLIC to SPECIFICALLY protect the people from the wishes of the unchecked majority

therefor

HOAs were formed

.....rant over

ps. i am Roman Catholic by BELIEF and send out Season's Greetings and 'Peace on Earth to All Men of Goodwill' (the accurate quote) cards

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

I say people need to get over themselves. Call it what it is, a CHRISTMAS decorating contest. Anyone offended can opt out.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

> At the next meeting, a member of the committee strongly objected to the new name.

This is why we can't have nice things.

> Since there are members of many faiths, as well as agnostics and atheists, living in our community, the intent of the new name was to be inclusive and not offend anyone.

This may require not having a contest, especially with your complaining resident around.

ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244

Posted:

If it is something the community enjoys, I wouldn't stop it just because a resident does not like the catch-all "Holiday" wording.

Your freedom OF religion also means my freedom FROM religion

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

I propose stepping back, and examining the numbers. 8 people on the committee all agreed to change the name. then, later, 1 person (of the original 8?) changed their mind.

Good for them. THey still lose, because: A) 7 people outvotes 1 person b) the 1 person should have said something AT THE PROPER TIME and 3) don't change things because 1 person is offended, change things when it is decided it is the right thing to do to change things. If 7 people agree that it's right to change because 1 person brought up a really solid point, good. But 7 shouldn't change because 1 whines.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

There is a social theory that a minority will shout its position and bully the majority into accepting their position. The majority, silent for fear of offending the few, results in the minority group feeling empowered and justified, therefore becoming louder. This causes a repeating cycle and is known as The Spiral of Silence.

You obviously have a diverse community and it was decided by the majority to have a more inclusive "holiday" decorating event to bring that diverse community together. Unfortunately one homeowner feels this is an assault on their beliefs (because as we all know red and green lights, pine trees, and a man in a red coat being hauled by reindeer not native to the middle east were a staple in the Bible). I wouldn't give in to this person. I would actually prefer the term "winter" over "holiday.". This would open up the door for seasonal decoration events.

If this one homeowner needs to decorate their house and call it a Christmas decoration to reaffirm their faith, then let them. Don't let them try to impose their beliefs on the agnostics, atheists, jews, muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and whatever else your community may have.

As a side note, I have actually seen Jewish and Zoroastrian holiday decorations so Christians don't have a monopoly on ostentatious decorating..

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KevinK7 on 10/28/2013 4:04 PM
There is a social theory that a minority will shout its position and bully the majority into accepting their position. The majority, silent for fear of offending the few, results in the minority group feeling empowered and justified, therefore becoming louder. This causes a repeating cycle and is known as The Spiral of Silence.

You obviously have a diverse community and it was decided by the majority to have a more inclusive "holiday" decorating event to bring that diverse community together. Unfortunately one homeowner feels this is an assault on their beliefs (because as we all know red and green lights, pine trees, and a man in a red coat being hauled by reindeer not native to the middle east were a staple in the Bible). I wouldn't give in to this person. I would actually prefer the term "winter" over "holiday.". This would open up the door for seasonal decoration events.

If this one homeowner needs to decorate their house and call it a Christmas decoration to reaffirm their faith, then let them. Don't let them try to impose their beliefs on the agnostics, atheists, jews, muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and whatever else your community may have.

As a side note, I have actually seen Jewish and Zoroastrian holiday decorations so Christians don't have a monopoly on ostentatious decorating..

I thought this was funny (and I mean it as a compliment).

Holiday or winter would work better and be more inclusive I feel. I am a non-Christian and have lived and traveled in non-Christian countries so I can verify that many religions like decorating for their holidays or as you put it "Christians don't have a monopoly on ostentatious decorating."

However, if your HOA does permit the expression of religious holidays via decorations, you should be open to other religions decorating at the times of their holidays and that might not be in December.

That happened in my former HOA and the police had to come to force the board director to give back the decoration that he climbed up on a ladder and took off of our balcony (and then proceeded to lie about it).

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

I was raised in the Catholic church and was lucky to have some very non-traditional priests. And like many others, a lot of my friends and family are of different faiths and beliefs. I think this is one area a HOA should not involve themselves with.

I have seen some C&Rs provide a range of dates for Christmas decorations like December 1st-31st, but what if you are a Coptic and Christmas isn't until January?

How about a HOA trying to enforce a covenant regarding external alterations for a Mezuzah?

I think it should stick with the generic seasonal or holiday moniker. After all, it is a HOMEOWNER'S association - not a faith-based association.

PeggyA4 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2

Posted:

You've all given me a lot to think about, and I appreciate all your comments. Just want to clarify one point. Our HOA does not have any restrictions concerning decorations for any holiday. We welcome them all. I think the main thing I've gotten from this is that our HOA should not sponsor a contest and provide funds for the lawn signs if we limit the contest to only the Christmas holiday. It's a shame that our effort to be more inclusive has been turned into a divisive debate by one member of our committee. Unfortunately, this isn't over. Our committee meets next week, and I know this will be discussed again. Hopefully, we can put an end to it, even if it means we do not sponsor this contest again. I'm sure people will still decorate their homes - I know I will.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Peggy,

My Association donates $100 to the volunteer fire department for them to bring Santa around the neighborhood. Everyone seems to enjoy it. However, once someone complains that the Association shouldn't be paying for that or that they should pay for other Holiday traditions, then I would likely vote against having the Association pay to bring Santa around.

Of course, I would also immediately pay the amount from my own pocket because I like the tradition and even though I can see the other perspective, I don't think Santa should be kicked to the side of the road.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Tim,

You've mentioned this before regarding Santa and the $100 donation....that could be easily separated by a January or Spring donation and a "free" Santa visit, kinda like a "free" fire department call when someone smells smoke.

Also, Santa Claus, by modern interpretation, is deemed a secular character.

We see these posts on occasion and it seems there is no wrong decision on holiday matters as it's sensitive to the makeup of an individual community. Regarding HOA funds being used for decorations, that's a slightly different matter because dues are confiscatory/mandatory and I can see where religious difference would rear up.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ValerieS2 on 10/28/2013 2:04 PM
If it is something the community enjoys, I wouldn't stop it just because a resident does not like the catch-all "Holiday" wording.

Your freedom OF religion also means my freedom FROM religion

No, really it doesn't mean that at all.
The rest of the world has no obligation to sanitize itself so that you don't have to see that religion exists. You have the right to practice (or not) the religion of your choosing (or not), and you also have the right to ignore the expressions of others. They're under no obligation whatsoever to change because you're "offended".

ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244

Posted:

I am not offended by anything; however, I do have a right to be reasonably free from suffering the effects of your religion.

Of course religious items can be "seen".

That does not mean I will allow my dues to sanction any religion. The more religion is kept to oneself the better for all concerned.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I am an Atheist, but I will defend your right to practice whatever religion you so desire to practice.

What I will not do is subsidize it any way including tax dollars and/or my association dues.

Things must be in "good taste". A million blinking lights is not in good taste. No dancing naked around a big bonfire on our common property. An exception could be made for some naked bodies dancing about...but nix on the fire....LOL

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 10/29/2013 1:59 PM

I think the issue is that a single homeowner wants to force the HOA to use community funds to pay for what they view as a religious holiday. They are upset because the other voted to use the term "holiday" instead of their religious "Christmas.". The board isn't sanitizing anything. There is majority rule with respect for the minority, not minority rule with no respect for everyone else.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

And there are plenty of non-religious people who recognize Christmas, host Christmas parties, put up Christmas trees, and exchange Christmas gifts.
Frankly, the holiday is as secular as it is religious.

MargueriteV (Tennessee)
Posts: 7

Posted:

I must say, "I have rights and no one will change my ability to exercise them!" I see and hear things everyday that I don't like due to the way people think. Until there is a law that takes my constitutional right away, then those who don't believe the way I do will just have to turn their head. It is Christmas, always has been Christmas and always will be Christmas.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708

Posted:

MargueriteV,

You should do a little research before making such "blanket" statements regarding the 'always has..., will always be' Christmas.
Unless of course your referring to in the context of YOUR lifetime.

MargueriteV (Tennessee)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Peter, maybe you need to take time and read a post before you reply...I referred to "I" not "you" or "we" !!!

As far as research, this has been a big issue on many forums and maybe you should do some research and see that what I replied is the feelings of the majority who post.

MargueriteV (Tennessee)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Peggy, I could understand why some would be offended at using funds from the HOA for contests, Santa, etc since there are so many different religions now who do not believe the same. Maybe all those who want to participate donate so much money per contestant and the winners split the pot. As far as changing Christmas to Holiday, why is it become so important? No other religion celebrates Christmas as a holiday.

JH3 (Maryland)
Posts: 67

Posted:

The government changed the name from Christmas Tree to Holiday Tree to Christmas Tree for a reason. If the government is fine with calling it a Christmas Tree, since you know, its for Christmas, then I don't see an issue with calling it a christmas decorating contest. But I dont live there.

You're always going to offend someone no matter what you do. But the name should've been left alone to begin with, the simple fact of changing it is offensive.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here