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DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Our process may or may not be correct. I would appreciate any expertise that can be offered.

We send out a proxy before the annual meeting. The proxy has the candidates listed and spaces for write-ins, and instructions on how many names to vote for ("no more than x").

The language on the proxy says "The undersigned member hereby appoints [names of BOD members], each of them jointly and severally, proxies with full power of substitution, to vote my vote, which I am entitled to cast as a member of the Association, on the election of two members of the Board of Directors and any other matter which may come before the Association at the Annual Meeting."

Members can mail in the proxy if they don't plan to attend the annual meeting. They can send it in to help fill a quorum (no vote needed) or they can indicate their vote on the proxy.

Members who attend bring the proxy with them and hand them to the secretary.

Our bylaws specify secret ballots. This hasn't been done in quite some time. Our property manager says the members decided they wanted to vote at the meeting by acclamation.

We also allow self-nominations from the floor at the meeting.

I'm the new secretary and I'm having trouble understanding how to conduct this.

What I believe has happened in the past is the proxies were considered ballots, and both absentee ones and ones from attendees were simply counted.

However, if we want to do secret ballots as specified in the bylaws, how would that work? Count the proxies by the nonattendees as we would ballots and issue ballots to attendees for each proxy that they bring, which would be collected after the nominating process?

Or should we just do it the way we have for the past 5-6 years or more?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Donna

Has anyone objected to how things have been done in the past?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaR5 on 10/23/2013 10:09 AM

We send out a proxy before the annual meeting. The proxy has the candidates listed and spaces for write-ins, and instructions on how many names to vote for ("no more than x").

You are using what is called a directed proxy form.
Directed proxies are as close as you can get to voting by mail without actually sending ballots.

Both general and directed proxies can be used.

Quote:
Posted By DonnaR5 on 10/23/2013 10:09 AM

The language on the proxy says "The undersigned member hereby appoints [names of BOD members], each of them jointly and severally, proxies with full power of substitution, to vote my vote, which I am entitled to cast as a member of the Association, on the election of two members of the Board of Directors and any other matter which may come before the Association at the Annual Meeting."

Ours specify that if no name is filled in, then the Board will act as the proxy.

Per law, members may appoint anyone they desire to serve as their proxy representative. They do not have to be assigning proxies to the Board. Proxies also do not have to be on a designated form. They only need to contain enough information so the Board can have good faith verification that the proxy is legit.

See the Virginia Nonstock Corporation Act (which typically applies to Associations in VA) for more information. Specifically VA ยง 13.1-847 as it addresses proxies.

I'm running out of time and will comment on the rest of this post tonight.
Hopefully, in the time I've had, I've provided some links that may help you.

Tim

DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
John, I am not asking because anyone has complained. I want to understand the process and carry it out smoothly. I don't want to perpetuate any process that may cause unforeseen difficulty or illegality. Laws change and an election screw-up would be a major headache.

I'm willing to take a "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" attitude when I'm just a homeowner attending the meeting, but if people are going to hold me responsible for something, I don't want to be bumbling around. I haven't been able to find a sample script for this kind of election.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I support your approach, Donna!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaR5 on 10/23/2013 10:47 AM
John, I am not asking because anyone has complained. I want to understand the process and carry it out smoothly. I don't want to perpetuate any process that may cause unforeseen difficulty or illegality. Laws change and an election screw-up would be a major headache.

I'm willing to take a "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" attitude when I'm just a homeowner attending the meeting, but if people are going to hold me responsible for something, I don't want to be bumbling around. I haven't been able to find a sample script for this kind of election.

Tim is in VA and knows VA procedures best. You could not ask for anyone one better. He is on it.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Donna,

I've done some more research and this what I've determined (and you should know that I am not an attorney nor do I work in the legal profession): Your Association must elect Directors as outlined in your governing documents.

Vote by acclamation is simply voting for something by a method other than ballots. Roberts Rules of Order allow this if there is no opposition. No opposition is typically seen as having no more candidates than there are vacancies.

However, per your posting, your Bylaws are very clear that the vote is to be done by secret ballot. If your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit (most are) then the applicable law, VA ยง 13.1-855 specifies "Directors shall be elected or appointed in the manner provided in the articles of incorporation".

Although not a legal document, the Fairfax County Community Association Manual, specifically the section on voting procedures helps to clarify by stating that Association bylaws often specify that the election of board members must use written ballots but allow discretion as to the method of voting when deciding other issues.

Since your governing documents specify the manner of electing Directors be done by secret ballot, then the Association must use a secret ballot and any other method could be challenged in court.

Additionally, since your Associations accepts nominations from the floor (ours does as well), this requires that the Ballot has spaces for write-in candidates. Therefore, voting by acclamation would eliminate a members option of voting for a write-in of their choosing (remember that proxies are not ballots and can not be counted as ballots so any write-in's on the proxy wouldn't be counted). Therefore, voting by acclamation would put the Association at risk to have the election results challenged.

Therefore, in my layman's opinion, Your Association must elect Directors as outlined in your governing documents (i.e. by secret ballot).

Now the reality of it is, it is likely that if the Board took a voice vote at the general meeting to vote by acclamation vs. by secret ballot and the members in attendance agreed, that there would be no challenges to the election. However, this would not be in compliance with your governing documents and does technically put the Association at risk losing any challenge to that election.

Worst case scenario (doesn't everyone love these), I could potentially see that not only the elections could be challenged but that decisions of a Board who failed to follow the procedures outlined in the governing documents to be elected, could be overturned by a court if challenged.

Again, the reality is likely that nobody would challenge. Why take that chance when it only requires a few more minutes and the cost of printed ballots to minimize or eliminate any such challenges?

DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Thanks,Tim. I'm grateful for your response. How, then, are the proxies from those not attending the meeting handled? If those votes are counted, they are obviously not secret, because the vote and the member's name is on each one (assuming they vote; some will leave them blank). Do we use secret ballots only for those present and add in absentee votes from the proxies? Or, if our bylaws stipulate a secret ballot for elections, does that mean that we can't count votes from proxies?
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Oh, there was one other thing. The people attending bring proxies with them, which in the past have been treated as ballots. Logically, I guess what we would do is take the proxy, hand them a ballot, and tell them not to mark it until after the polls close, so that they are not voting before the period in which nominations from the floor are taken. Correct?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Simply answered, what is marked on the proxy form is transferred to a Ballot.
1 proxy form, 1 ballot.

We have one Board member who is an attorney and once I got him to agree to using directed proxies he said that the Board should then take on the obligation of ensuring the proxies are cast as required. This is the procedure that he came up with.

1) Directed proxy is given to the Secretary or Election Official (if they are separate) at check in.

2) Proxy is verified and accepted.

3) Election Official, in front of Proxy representative, will mark a ballot as indicated on the directed proxy and give the ballot to the representative.

4) Proxy is retained by election official to become part of the records.

For general proxies or directed proxies that allow the representative to cast the vote as they desire, step 3 is simply handing a ballot to the Representative.

It takes a little longer at check in and you will need to explain why you are marking the ballot for them, but once the members understood, there were no issues.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Forgot to add that using directed proxies does eliminate the secrecy of how they voted, but that was the members choice when they used a directed proxy over a general proxy. The ballots themselves don't indicate who voted for who. It's only when someone looks at the proxies that this can be identified.

DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
I apologize in advance for being dense, but the whole proxy thing does rather boggle my mind with its complications.

You are describing the process for the proxies from absentees, correct?

Now, what about taking a proxy from a member who is arriving at the meeting, and he hands in the proxy already marked and is given a blank ballot, and then someone nominates himself from the floor? If that person decides to vote for the self-nominee rather than the one who was on the proxy, will this cause confusion in the election records? Conceivably, I could have a stamp for proxies handed in at the meeting that could invalidate what is marked on the proxy because the ballot may differ... Or should we require that people mark through and initial the choices on the proxy in case they cast their ballot differently? Or is it simply assumed that proxies from attendees do not necessarily reflect their actual vote?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaR5 on 10/24/2013 7:58 AM
I apologize in advance for being dense, but the whole proxy thing does rather boggle my mind with its complications.

You are describing the process for the proxies from absentees, correct?

Yes.

That is how we handle any proxies received for the general membership meeting.
It doesn't matter if the proxy representative is the Board or an individual. We process them the same way.

If you didn't use directed proxies (i.e. only using general proxies), the issue on how to handle them would be less.

For clarification if anyone is unaware:

A General Proxy is where a member identifies an individual (or the Board) to represent the member at the general meeting and cast ballot on the members behalf. The Representative (aka Proxy) is free to cast the vote how they wish and/or thinks is best.

A Directed proxy is where a member identifies an individual (or the Board) to represent the member at the general meeting and cast ballot on the members behalf. However the Representative (aka Proxy) is instructed to make the ballot a specific way (yea for this, nay for that, etc.).
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Can anyone tell me how the proxies from attendees are treated? My query above may have been confusing. Basically, I expect attendees to bring proxies that are already marked. If I give them ballots, it's possible that they may hand in ballots with a different vote. That is, if someone nominates from the floor, some attendees may decide to vote for that candidate instead of the one that was on the proxy.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Donna,

There is no law or guideline on this. The procedure you use will need to be established by your Board of Directors.

I've already told you how are Association does it. You are free to use this procedure, modify it so it fits your Association or not use it at all.

Again the procedure is:

1) Individual who has a proxy form shows up at the meeting and checks in at the sign-in desk (I expect that this is whom you are referring to as attendees).

2) Election Official/Secretary verifies proxy is complete.

3) Individual/Attendee signs in for the member (we have a check box on the sign-in sheet to indicate that this is a proxy)

4) If the proxy form is a Directed proxy (which is what your description of the form you are using sounds like), the election official marks the ballot as specified on the proxy form.

5) The election official retains the proxy form for Association records and hands the completed ballot to the individual/attendee to hand in when the polls open.

OPTIONAL - Our proxy form gives the option to allow the attendee to vote as they desire (also known as a general proxy). When this happens, the procedure we use is:

Step 1, 2 and 3 are the same.

4) The election official retains the proxy form for Association records and hands a blank ballot to the individual/attendee.

OPTIONAL - Since our form gives the option of specifying how an individual to vote or allows the individual to vote as they think is best, it is possible to get a mixed proxy (vote yea for candidate a and b but allow the attendee to decide the rest of the ballot). When this happens, this is our procedure:

Step 1, 2, 3 and 4 are the same.

5) The election official retains the proxy form for Association records and hands the partially marked ballot to the individual/attendee to complete as they desire and hand in when the polls open.

I've also attached a copy of our proxy form, as it may help to look at it when you read the procedures.

I hope all of this helps,

Tim
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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/25/2013 7:52 AM

I've already told you how are Association does it. You are free to use this procedure, modify it so it fits your Association or not use it at all.

Oops, should read I've already told you how our Association does it
BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
We sent a completed/signed proxy form to our secretary. Then we decided to attend the meeting. When we signed in, we were give a ballot and our proxy was shredded. So everyone at the meeting casts a ballot. This procedure was recommended by our lawyer.
BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
We sent a completed/signed proxy form to our secretary. Then we decided to attend the meeting. When we signed in, we were given a ballot and our proxy was shredded. So everyone at the meeting casts a ballot. This procedure was recommended by our lawyer.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Elections cant be done with return mail ballots AND write-ins, AND take nominations from the floor. They don't mix.

Close nominations on a certain date and print your ballot as a mail- in. . Members can mail them back in OR sign a proxy form for either a certain person to act as their proxy or the HOA secretary can cast the votes. Votes are tabulated at the annual meeting.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BH5 on 08/18/2019 2:15 PM
We sent a completed/signed proxy form to our secretary. Then we decided to attend the meeting. When we signed in, we were given a ballot and our proxy was shredded. So everyone at the meeting casts a ballot. This procedure was recommended by our lawyer.

That's how it should work as far as I understand it, Bill. I'm sure the original poster found the answer to her question somewhere along the line over the past 6 years, which is when she first opened this topic.
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Yes, that was me. We now use ballots at the meeting and if someone comes to the Annual Meeting who already sent a proxy, the proxy is eliminated and the person casts a ballot. Thanks!

This forum is so helpful.
MikeH27 (Alabama)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Couldn't agree more....but our Covenants require nominees(Election Committee) and nominations from the floor. Key word, according to our attorney, is the "and". We had a challenge this year and hard to back-track on the policy.
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
I would imagine that's the case for almost all HOAs. You have to accept nominations at the meeting. The system could be abused if you don't.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaR5 on 08/20/2019 7:42 AM
I would imagine that's the case for almost all HOAs. You have to accept nominations at the meeting. The system could be abused if you don't.

Not necessarily, especially in Florida. You're in Virginia so your mileage may vary. You are right about the potential for abuse. That's essentially Reason Number One why the FL legislature eliminated nominating committees and proxy voting in board elections for Condominiums. They didn't do the same for Homeowners Associations, though, so there are still HOAs that do use them.

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