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JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Our California condominium has two units - each has a deck that's been mapped as an exclusive use easement
The structure is wood and has several sets of steps connecting the decks.
Each of the decks has some type of support, either attached to the building or supported by uprights from the ground.
Our CC&Rs do not indicate which entity - the unit owner or the HOA - is responsible for maintaining/repairing/replacing the decks.
California condominiums are governed by the Davis-Stirling Act which is an over arching legal document that does state that these things are the responsibility of the unit owner.
The other unit owner and I both agree that the decks are our responsibility but we aren't clear how to treat the pcs attached to the deck. We agree that the uprights are HOA's responsibility
But what about the planks of wood that are attached to the building with bolts?
And how about the blocks of wood that separate the planks and the building to allow the water to drain off the decks?
I don't want to be a stickler but we're having an attorney draw up some papers that state just who's responsible for these things and we want to get it right.
Anyone else have this issue?
Our CC&Rs simply say that the decks need to be kept neat and clean.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Jaime,

Keep it simple. Adopt the entire deck if you're willing to maintain even part of said deck. To split the "responsibility" is to lose control of maintaining your deck on your schedule; and it seems the deck is an important part of your lifestyle in that condo community. The fact is that some deck work can trigger up-fitting to meet modern construction codes in your area.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Jaime

What the attorney should draw up is something called a maintenance checklist. I had one drawn up for HOAs I managed. It was a 2 page, 4 column spreadsheet of
all the components that make up a condo and who has clear responsibility for what, either homeowner or association. These are drawn from your original CCRs.

Any changes the homeowners or association does outside of the CCRs would need a membership vote.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Typically decks are structural and with condos, they typically fall under the condo responsibility for replacement. Why not just adopt the decks as condo property..... but leave the exclusive use to each owner. Makes life so much simpler.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 10/22/2013 7:59 PM
Typically decks are structural and with condos, they typically fall under the condo responsibility for replacement. Why not just adopt the decks as condo property..... but leave the exclusive use to each owner. Makes life so much simpler.

This was the way it was in a townhouse association I belonged to. Decks were the responsibility of the association.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Even better Steve & John if the decks pair with the condo and fall under HOA maintenance. I can't imagine the hassle of separating individual components of the decking for maintenance purposes. You'd never agree on a schedule of replacement or repair.
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
JaimeR,

To clarify, would you describe further? You wrote the condominium has two units. Are these apartment type units with one Unit above the other, each with a deck?

Approximately how many Units total in your Association? And are there Just the two Units with decks that you describe, or are there more?

I am confused as to why you and the owner of the other unit are discussing “agreeing”. By that do you mean, that each of you are discussing how to interpret your Documents, perhaps as members of the Board of Directors.

And since the answer, while not spelled out, probably lies in your Documents, would you post the words that describe the Unit boundaries. And the words that describe the Common Areas or Elements.
JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18
Posted:
sure- there are only 2 units in the entire building - they are apartment type units with one above the other.
each unit has a deck extending from the rear door. the reason we're discussing this at all is because our CC&Rs are ancient and don't give us any direction whatsoever except to say that they must be kept neat and clean.
the Davis-Sterling Act however says that each unit owner is fiscally responsible for the decks as they are an exclusive use easement
I'd like to clarify that
1) there have been breaches of the documents also disagreements that have led to legal action because the upper unit owner has refused to take responsibility for items that are clearly his as spelled out in the CC&Rs.
there are only 2 members of the Bd for the HOA -
since there are only 2 units in the entire building the docs are difficult to enforce without substantial cost to us.
2) the upper deck needs to be repositioned because right now it's sloping towards the building and there is no flashing against that portion of the building causing water to seep into the building which is affecting our walls.
I'm attaching pg 7 of our CC&Rs as I can't seem to copy and paste.
It would really help if someone was familiar with the Davis Sterling Act.
Thanks for your help

📎 Attachments (1):

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📄11024101366571.pdf(17 KB)
JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18
Posted:
i'm a bit confused - are you suggesting that we take responsibility for the entire structure? or are you suggesting that we keep individual responsibility for each deck to unit owners?
part of our problem is that since we're a two unit HOA and the other unit owner is not very cooperative and totally irresponsible as far as upkeep and maintenance, we'd like not to be involved with him. if we can take care of some things on our own we'd rather.
thanks for your help
JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Ellie
I sent a response to your questions but haven't heard back. I sure would appreciate an answer since we're getting down to the
nitty gritty this week. The attorney will be legitimizing the portion of our CC&Rs by filing a legal doc stating who is financially responsible for repair, maintenance and replacement of the exclusive use easements (decks)
As mentioned it would be great if someone from CA could give me some help since the Davis Sterling Act governs condo law in our state. And if someone has had some experience with this in CA they may have a better grip on the issue
Looking forward to your response

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
JaimeR,

I want to make sure that I understand correctly. Does your entire Condominium Association consist only of one building? Or are there more buildings?

Re how many Board Members? You answered two (2). So are those 2 Board members, yourself and the upstairs Owner?

As I wrote earlier, the answer you are looking should be “in the words” that describe the Unit Boundaries, and the Common Areas or Elements. Do not expect that your Documents will describe in plain English who is responsible for what, but it should be able to be inferred.

Also IMO the fact that your Documents are “ancient” has no bearing- unless there is something in Davis-Sterling that supersedes.

The pdf page you attached only states that the Association is to manage the Common Areas. But that may be enough IF there are no other references to, or words that define Common Elements. However, I am not an Attorney.
JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Ellie
2 unit condo building no other condo owners - just him and me...no real board since nothing we contest can ever be settled with out legal expense..this particular issue is important as the ledger of the upper deck is causing (we think) a leak into our interior wall
There is a specific paragraph in the Davis Sterling Act that specifies how the exclusive use easement is handled
and that supersedes our CC&Rs.
Thanks for your help
looks like legal action is all we can do. RRRRRRGH!!!!!
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
JaimeR,

Would you be willing to post the “specific paragraph” in D-S that you mention?

For what it might be worth, using my Association as an example, for our buildings similar to yours, both upper and lower decks are defined as Limited Common (exclusive use area). But they are still Common Areas or Elements.

In my Association all of the support structure, the deck floor boards, the railings, etc are Association responsibility to repair and replace, and also to paint and/or stain. The individual Unit Owner is only responsible to maintain the deck area – where “maintain” as used here, means that the Owner is responsible only to sweep and keep clean.

In my Association should flashing be needed, as you describe, that would be Association responsibility, and any Contractor making such a repair would have to be fully insured with Liability, Workman’s Comp, and provide a Certificate of Insurance to the Association.

However, if the upstairs owner caused damage to the deck area, it would still be Association responsibility to fix. But there could be a possible “charge back”.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jaime has an interesting (not unique) situation. The entire association is one building with two units. Jaime owns one unit thus he is 50% of the vote/owners and the other guy owns the other unit, thus he is the other 50% of the vote/owners.

Took a bit of time to get the facts out, but this is quite common in older neighborhoods where a two family house was converted into a two unit condo.

The two family home (both rentals) I was brought up in greater Boston was later converted to a two unit, condo association as is Jaime's. By whom and how converted I do not know, but it is common in that area.

Talk about a standoff........LOL

JaimeR1 (California)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Thanks for your example. Here is what the D-S act states:

Article 3. Maintenance
4775. (a) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration of a
common interest development, the association is responsible for
repairing, replacing, or maintaining the common area, other than
exclusive use common area, and the owner of each separate interest is
responsible for maintaining that separate interest and any exclusive
use common area appurtenant to the separate interest.

"Exclusive use common area" means a portion of the common areas designated by the declaration for the exclusive use of one or more, but fewer than all, of the owners of the separate interests and which isor will be appurtenant to the separate interest or interests.
(1) Unless the declaration otherwise provides, anyshutters, awnings, window boxes, doorsteps, stoops, porches, balconies, patios, exterior doors, doorframes, and hardware incident thereto, screens and windows or other fixtures designed to serve a single separate interest, but located outside the boundaries of the separate interest, are exclusive use common areas allocated exclusively to that separate interest.(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of the declaration, internal and external telephone wiring designed to serve a single separate interest, but located outside the boundaries of the separate interest, are exclusive use common areas allocated exclusively to that separate interest.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jaime

You can quote al the D-S and/or laws you wish to, but when your fellow 50% owner says fuc# off...they mean nothing.

I often say the only difference between your scumbag lawyer and my scumbag lawyer is one of those scumbags is mine.

I say lawyer up.

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