How to fire or ask for president to resign

Started by MaryP18 • 17 replies • 2232 views

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MaryP18 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I'm asking this because our president has just about wiped out our funds and most members do not want to pay their dues until she no longer in her position.She has been serving as President and treasure because she would not allow anyone else to help even ones elected as treasure. I am now the treasure and it took getting the lawyer involved for her to release the files over to me. I.m asking to see if we can avoid racking up for lawyer fees. Is there a way to do this with out having to go thru. him.
Any advice would be helpful

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryP18 on 10/20/2013 11:07 AM
I'm asking this because our president has just about wiped out our funds and most members do not want to pay their dues until she no longer in her position.She has been serving as President and treasure because she would not allow anyone else to help even ones elected as treasure. I am now the treasure and it took getting the lawyer involved for her to release the files over to me. I.m asking to see if we can avoid racking up for lawyer fees. Is there a way to do this with out having to go thru. him.
Any advice would be helpful

In most associations the board has the power to remove the president from that position (although the president may remain as a board member). Read your bylaws to find the section on removal of officers.

Also, if the president was elected to the board by the homeowners, they have the power to remove that person from the board. In many associations, the president must be a director, so removing that person as a director effectively removes them as president as well. Again, read your bylaws.

Now, this is all fine in theory. The problem is when you are dealing with a person like that they will seldom step down willingly, even when they are properly removed by following the procedures in the bylaws.

One final note. Is your board absolutely useless? The president can't spend any money without the authorization of the board.

MaryP18 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Thank you BruceF1 for your response. She was elected by the members years ago and every year attendance gets slimmer and slimmer. Which keeps her in her position so many members have been bullied by her and don't want anything to do with the HOA. We have the proof now that we have the files. The Vice President and myself have got out and started talking to more of the members to see what we can do to change and their main complaint seems to be her but they are scared and stated that she has gronies that come to elections to keep her there. And if we have to call a special meeting to get her voted out then they will show up and have her reelected. This is our deliema. Its like we can't get her out of her position. With the members electing her in the board cant fire or ask her to resign or ask for her dismissal? the bylaws state that the board can remove her but it also states that there has to be a special meeting?

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304

Posted:

Bruce is right. If your community doesn't want this woman on their Board then they would have to do a recall election for all members. All the Board can do is to remove her from her positions as President and Treasurer by a majority vote of the Board. I was also wondering the same thing- how did the Board President spend all of the funds without the rest of the Board voting for the expenditures.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Here goes my "devil's advocate" hat... A HOA IS a "NON-PROFIT INCORPORATION". If you are a Treasurer then you should know that means there is NO PROFIT involved in running a HOA. It is to spend on it's expenses exactly what it collects in. It can have a reserves account for future capital improvements. HOA's do NOT operate like you "home" budget.

You stated that people had stopped paying their dues out of protest. Does that NOT mean the HOA would be lower on funds and thus mean less money in your bank account? Could she/board NOT be paying out all the money they collect because that's all the money they have available to meet the bills? A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members for it's members. Seems to me if members aren't paying, then your going to be having the HOA go into debt. Proof of the whole spending everything you got.

I get a little frustrated at this so please forgive. My HOA was 107 patio homes. Our monthly bills were $5000 a month. Most months we had only 87 - 90 of the 107 pay on time every month. The other 17 were in various stages of being late, liened, or claiming ignorance of payment. Our dues were $50 a month. You do the math...

So I would me more concerned if your HOA is collecting enough money to afford the bills. Those "Protesting" have no foot to stand on. Liens cost money to file. Talking to a lawyer should ONLY be approved by the board and done by one person directly to the lawyer to limit confusion and costs. The HOA lawyer represents the BOARD/HOA as a WHOLE NOT as individual. Your going to the lawyer and using the HOA funds is yet again another drain on the money your HOA may or not be collecting.

Maybe stop looking at the President and start looking at your overall budget. Cutting off the head of the snake doesn't stop the bleeding in your HOA when you have people refusing to pay. Which also means they lose their right to vote or to be voted in. A problem in ever getting someone voted out of office, cause without the ability to be in good standing, you lose your right to vote who is in office....or if you can remove them.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Mellisa,

Te term "reserve account" typically would mean an account set up for the replacement and maintenance of asset ALREADY within the HOA's common area, not fro future capital improvements, which would only be allocated once the improvement has been completed.

For capital improvements to be funded, the money must come from the operating account, special assessment or possibly a temporary loan from the "reserve account".

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

spell check not working

Melissa,

The term "reserve account" typically would mean an account set up for the replacement and maintenance of assets ALREADY within the HOA's common area, not for future capital improvements, which would only be allocated once the improvement has been completed.

For capital improvements to be funded, the money must come from the operating account, special assessment or possibly a temporary loan from the "reserve account".

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

So, Mary. Do your governing documents, usually your bylaws, say that the Board alone can remove the prez from that position? Or not? Can you answer that question?

If your documents are silent, and your HOA is a corporation, your state corporation codes may tell you how to remove the president from the position of president. Generally it only takes a majority of the board to vote her out. Your board does not need an attorney to "fire" her as president.

As others have said, removing her as a director would take a recall vote by the members because they voted for her to be a director in this case; the board didn't appoint her as a director.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I was just limiting words in the description of what a reserve account is. It was just a summation NOT detailed. Basic terms you have a reserve account in place to cover such things as road, roof, or other expensive long term/high expensive items. Which I would lump under "Capital" improvements for the shortest of terms. I believe an actual "savings account" should be set up for "emergencies" and budget shortfalls. Which I did not mention in my post as well. That being that I don't believe this HOA has a grasp on budget at all. If one believes there should be money in accounts when no one is paying dues to support those accounts...

Former HOA President

MaryP18 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

She has been able to freely spend the money because she would not let anyone help even if they were elected treasure she would tell them its just a title I do everything. Here is the kicker in December 2011 we were in the good by 10,000 and in the past two years has done nothing to help get dues that have not been paid but SHE HAS COLLECTED 113.00 a MONTH because she PAYS HERSELF. some how this got voted in since she has been president.
Her husband has also been paid every month for "mowing"
I'm still reading bylaws but how I read it we can have her removed as a board but it will still come down to the members.
I'm thinking if we send out a letter letting the members know we might gain some more support that away,

MaryP18 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

The money was there at one time I am not trying to cut off the head of the snake but she has paid herself 113.00 a month, has not paid her dues and spent money with no recipts to show, she is paying by debit card, atm trasations, cashier check and checks. invoices that have no name as to who did the work, hand written invoices, we can't tell who has paid and who has not since 2010, and using a credit card in the HOA name and by the way she started a business in 2012 that was a flop and has been out of work for 6 months.Please tell me how this is ok.
The board has basically been here because she will not let anybody help.
I turned to the lawyer the more members I talked to and more info. I found out I knew I had to get a hold of the files and sure enough its a mess.
I went to the lawyer with the vice president after she called and discussed it via phone and email to avoid racking up charges and it was her idea and the lawyer said we had every right to come to him with this.
I don't want to rack up a bunch of lawyer fee that's why I'm trying to get answers via internet

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Mary,

Keep in mind that the position of an Officer and the position of Director are two separate positions. When they are filled by the same individual, that individual is doing two jobs.

As Bruce pointed out, the Board of Directors may remove an individual from serving in an Officer position. This will of course require someone who is willing to take over that position. At the next Board meeting make a motion that the current President be removed from Office and that xyz be appointed as President.

Again, as Bruce pointed out, this individual will still be serving as a Director and have a vote on any issues brought to the Board. However, they will no longer be the face or voice of the Association. It is also possible that this individual will resign if they are removed as President.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Mary, Tim said it soooo much better than I. At the next Board meeting, make a motion to remove her from the office of prez. The VP can second it. Vote her 2 to 1, yes?

If you still think that only homeowners can vote her out as president, please type the section of your bylaws that says those words. There might be an interpretation problem here. I think when you say there has to be a special meeting, that refers to removing her from the Board.

It does sound like you really do need the attorney's advice. Your finances sound very bad and I don't think that you'll get very far on the internet. In my opinion, Melissa's remarks aren't very helpful in your case.

Are you, as I've assumed, a board of three? How many homes are in your HOA?

MaryP18 (Texas)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Yes we are a board of 3 with 75 homes.
I appreciate all the help everyone on here as offered.
Thank yall so much.
The vice president wants to contact the lawyer in the morning. Hopefully we can do it via phone or email if not the vice president and I have decided to pay the lawyer fee for this as to not put the HOA in anymore debt.
Thank you so much I now know where to go if any other problem come up.

ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244

Posted:

Mary as Treasurer you should be in charge of all checkbook(s) and/or debit card(s). Why does she have access? I would immediately take steps to cut off her access even if it means closing accounts.

DonnaR5
Posts: 162

Posted:

The lawyer should advise you beforehand of the steps to take to protect your finances. Take those steps ASAP.

At the next board meeting (schedule a special one if your bylaws allow), vote her out of the office of president. Have the lawyer present. The lawyer's presence will make things work without confusion.

Then, going forward, read your bylaws repeatedly until you understand them and how the governance of the community works. The president has no more power than the rest of the board members. Even in signing checks and contracts, this is only as a representative of the board, and the president is not empowered to do it without the board's decision.

LidanyG (Texas)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We have just had this problem a few days ago. We acquired the 1/3 signed petition to call a SPECIAL MEETING to remove all the board members. We had the required 51% to have a quorum to remove the board and at the quorum based on the 51% or more that showed up we had the 2/3 vote to remove but the board relied on wording from the bylaws that says
"those eligible to vote at the meeting". Whereas they interpreted as everyone being eligible even if they werent there because they could have used the proxy but it's supposed to be those AT the meeting. Which we were AT the meeting then!!!! We can sue because we are hurting ourselves because we pay for the lawsuit from our funds, and the attorneys being in the boards pocket would love to this, because they would drain our funds. The president has stayed on because no one shows up at the meetings thus the 51% isnt met and their is no quorum so by default they stay on. This has happened for 25 years. what can we do people!?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Lidany,

Good information and welcome to the forum.

It is best not to reactivate old threads as laws change and advice that was good in 2013 (the initial date of this thread) may be bad advice in 2016.

Again, good info.

Tim

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