Bylaws and Declaration Amendments

For us:

CC&Rs - 51% of the membership

Bylaws - 51% of members present at meeting in person or by proxy (note, it is not 51% of votes cast)

Article of Incorporation - 51% of eligible votes

1. 75% to change by laws and Articles of Incorporation.
2. 90% to change the CC&R's.
3. A special meeting required for vote and changes.

However, we could skip the special meeting requirement if we voted to give up our rights to have it. That way could go door to door or have it available at normal meetings for someone to vote.

By laws are NOT required to be filed except with the HOA. CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are required to be filed. CC&R's at County and Articles at STATE level. There is a filing fee.

To parahrase what John is asking: what is it 75% of?

words and phrases mean specific things. For example:

100 members, 5 members have suspended voting rights due to delinquent accounts. At a meeting, 90 members attend and 80 votes were cast as 70 yea and 10 nay.

75% of the membership means you need 75 yea votes to adopt (100 * .75)

75% of the votes cast means you need 60 yea votes to adopt (80 * .75)

75% of eligible votes means you need 72 yea votes to adopt (95 * .75 rounded up)

75% of members present means you need 68 yea votes to adopt (90 * .75 rounded up)

As you can see, the number of votes needed to adopt can vary greatly depending on what the 75% is of.

We're at 2/3 of the units required to change both. So 14 out of our 20 units.

75% for the CCRs, 50% for the Bylaws (maybe less - I'll have to double check)

100% for the Declarations (the only issue within this document concerns some undeveloped land owned by the association - everyone would have to agree to sell it).

As far as I know the Declaration is a set of docs, and the hierarchy as follows:

Articles of Incorporation (if your state requires associations to incorporate. (most associations are non-profit and file 1120-H)

CC&Rs

Bylaws

Rules & Regs

Most Declarations require 2/3 of affirmative vote from the membership to amend the CC&Rs. Sometimes the same percentage is required to amend the Bylaws, and sometimes the BOD has the vested authority to amend. Rules & Regs are usually implemented and/or updated at the discretion of the BOD.

Actually, I was referring to Florida where I live 1/2 of the year, and not OH. In Florida there are Statutes for each type of associations, Condos, HOAs, Co-Ops. If and when there is a conflict between the language in the Statutes and the Declaration, the Statutes prevail. In Florida the Articles of Incorporation are the first in line.

"The Declaration of Condominium in Florida is an extremely important condominium document. The declaration as originally recorded or as amended may include covenants and restrictions concerning the use, occupancy, and transfer of the units permitted by law with reference to real property. (Fl. St. § 718.104). Buyers should be aware of any covenants or restrictions in their condominium documents."

It's not just Ohio. Half the people who post on this forum seem to think Bylaws and Declarations are the same thing.

Susan,

Governing documents also include Articles of Incorporation if the Association is incorporated (most are).

Here is the hierarchy of laws/documents for Associations:

Federal Law
Federal Regulations
State Law
State Regulations
County Codes
City Ordinances
PLAT (which identifies easements and boundaries of lots/development)
Declaration of Covenants Conditions and Restrictions (aka CC&Rs)
Articles of Incorporation
Bylaws
Resolutions approved by the Board (typical example: Architectural guidelines and common area rules)

No lower document may conflict with a higher document. If there is a conflict, the higher document must be complied with (controls). However, many laws will defer control to an Associations governing documents. Therefore, it is important to read the conflicting higher document to be sure which document will actually control.

Is there a way to edit here ?? I guees not. Oh well,

Susan,

No, I am not an attorney. I've never claimed to be one and, if you check previous posts, I often will point that out when I am posting. Additionally, I am not and never have been (and likely never will be) a member of CAI.

I offer advice and opinion based on what is contained in the original post, personal experiences, any research I have done and, hopefully, using some common sense.

Everyone may certainly have difference of opinions. However, I am more than willing to admit when I am incorrect if it is pointed out where I am incorrect and the reasons why. When this is done, I will learn and hopefully won't make the same error in the future.

Please let me know which comment is incorrect and/or skewed.
I would also appreciate it if you can provide the basis for why you believe what I posted was incorrect.

Perhaps I've missed something in the statutes or other reference material I've read.

Here is some of the research I have done which had me conclude what the hierarchy of the documents are:

HOA Governing Documents Explained a March 2011 article in HOALeader.

Hierarchy of Documents from davis-stirling.com

Governing Documents: Hierarchy of control a 2012 paper from condolaw.net

How important are state statutes and case decisions in governing your HOA from an attorney's newsletter

Fairfax County (VA) Community Association Manual see chapter 1

HOA Basics: An Introduction to Homeownership in a Planned Community a 2008 article from a legal firm

Subject: Hierarchy of Dedicatory Documents in Texas a 2011 thread in this forum.

I could not find a way to edit my most recent post. For starters, I would NOT trust HOAleader. The guy who owns that website makes money through subscriptions and quoting attorneys but he is no community association expert. Unless the reader has industry expertize , reader cannot put things in perspective.

In a nutshell what is called the "hierarchy" of documents of a particular association anywhere in the US has nothing to do with Federal Laws. The Federal gov has no relevance when a purchaser buys into a deed restricted community. The relationship between a unit owner/homeowner and the mandatory association is based on long standing state Corporate, Contract and Real Property Law. The laws that govern mandatory community associations were created in the past 10 or 15 years (depending on state) whereas other types of state laws including Real Property and Contract laws have been around for over a century.

When a state legislature passes any type of law, legislators (most of whom are attorneys) for the most part are mindful of existing Federal laws and their state Constitution. New state Bills cannot conflict with US Constitution, Federal laws, or state Constitution.

I'm off the air :-)

Talk about skewed... Takes someone who is to recognize it. The Feds do have something to do with HOA's. Something called "FHA" loans. Maybe you have heard of them? Many purchasers who qualify use these type of loans. Many HOA's want to stay in "good graces" with the FHA standards so they can continue to allow to offer this option. The FHA loan process includes a "PUD" form of which the HOA fills out. It has 25 questions on it evaluating the "health" of the HOA. It's basically an assessment of the HOA which includes number of rentals, outstanding liens/foreclosure/court actions, fee simple, and it's rate of collections amongst a few other items. That form is also being used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac more and more. Which effects the rate of the loan, offering of that loan package, and refinance rates.

That is one way the federal side of things do effect HOA's but most people never know nor see it. We won't go into the whole "eminent domain" authority of the government. (I know I misspelled it). A HOA also can not discriminate according to the Federal laws regarding sex and race. HOA's can't technically even restrict rentals in most states.

Yes, it drives me crazy when people decide to go to their state legislature to make changes in their HOA. The reality is that they can fix their issues by just reading and understanding their own HOA documents. Which I will get off my soap box here on that... However, state and federal laws still supercede and is stated so in your HOA documents. If your HOA has a rule on not allowing "Satellite dishes" the Federal government says that can't be so even if written in your documents.

There are many conflicts in your HOA documents with existing local, state, and federal laws. The hierarchy comes in handy so your HOA does NOT have to keep re-writing the documents each and every incident. It can cost thousands of dollars and take years to pass a simple change of allowing satellite dishes in your documents. Why not recognize instead that due to the hierarchy of laws, that it is "understood" that federal law takes over and allows them without re-writing?

I am NOT a lawyer and neither are most posters here. That is irrelevant if we are or are not. It's FREE advice. Real advice is up to the professionals. We just voice our own personal experiences and knowledge we have to put you in a right direction to get help. Don't ever expect us to post something 100% correct nor fit 100% into your situation. Just know we are here to help you get onto the right field and direction...

All, please move on and quit quoting me on your replies. Not interested in debate with people who have a "chip on their shoulder" and/or use sites like this to "vent" their frustrations.

TimB4. I just joined this site 48 hrs. ago our of curiosity. I am NOT familiar with the regular or long time contributors, and you guys have no clue of my national credentials in the community association industry, profession, and and business. I do not need "lecturing" from amateurish bloggers, and I did not mean to hurt your feelings in a direct way. Enough said. Bye.

I'm glad when anyone takes an interest in the dealings of their Association. I also encourage you to stay.


That is correct. We don't know your credentials any more than you know ours. We only know what you have posted.

Based on those posts, we know that you are a member of CAI and that you know an author who was quoted in one of the threads here. Based on your posts, we know that there are disagreements between what you believe and what I (and others) believe to be correct. We also know that, based on posts, you and I also agree on many things as well.

To me, credentials mean nothing more than someone was able to retain knowledge enough to pass a test. Credentials may get a door or two open but it doesn't make anyone a professional. Professionalism is what is displayed in your work not what is in your title. There are plenty of people with titles who's work is anything but professional.

BTW, I have a past president of CAI who lives in our community and I've had the pleasure of serving with him on our Board of Directors. He and I also disagreed on a few issues. Sometimes he was correct, sometimes I was correct. Bottom line is, we continued to work together to make our HOA better than it was when we served together. I don't ever recall either of us becoming defensive with the other. Regardless of his title with CAI, I would consider that individual a professional.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the advice and opinions posted here. They are also entitled to form opinions of those who post them.

As stated earlier, you don't know our credentials in the industry any more than we know yours.

For me, I'll let my work and posts speak for themselves.


You did not hurt my feelings. Like I said everyone is entitled to form their own opinion of the advice offered here and on who is offering the advice.

I will say that, based on your opinions that what is posted here is being posted by amateurish bloggers, I do hope that you never serve on your Associations Board of Directors. I say this because if you believe this about individuals you have never met and have no idea of their credentials or experience, I'd be concerned about what opinions you may form about members of an Association who bring issues before the Board. Would those opinions cause you to no longer listen to the individual? Would you be able to put those opinions aside and consider the issue on it's merits? Would you simply cut the individual off by saying "enough said" or would you try to understand where this individuals issues are coming from?

Everyone is human and everyone will typically go into a defensive posture when threatened. It's the professionals who can get past that posturing and actually listen and discuss the issues based on their merits.

I would hope everyone would be able to truly listen and try to understand why people do things or see things from a different perspective. Understanding doesn't mean you would alter your decision but it may alter the way you interact with the individual.

Sorry, EllieD but with all the nonsense and iditioc remarks posted after you I had missed your question. In any event, perhaps the "regulars" here may wish to f/up with you. Good luck.

PS. people, quit quoting me over and over. Move on, get a life.

Are you allucinating ?? what did I ask YOU ??

Hi Jeanne. I reside in Maryland and I hope you can answer my question. Does the Maryland Condo Act supersede the Declaration or vice-versa?
My association's board members insist it's illegal to have reserved parking in our condominium community. In all my research, I've come to the assumption that it's basically the board's decision to assign reserved parking or not. Do you think this is correct?

Leslie

Thanks TimB4. I think I've done some research on my own that I'm even more confused. I don't know what's what!