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AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Just out of curiosity, what is the BIGGEST mistake your HOA Board has ever made? As in the biggest financial and/or legal repercussions.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
When I was on the board (2008-2010) we had one member ("Jack") assigned to interact with our property management company. At each meeting he would present us with incomplete facts regarding delinquent payments. I think Jack wanted to keep some of us in the dark but the management company was also at fault as their records were a mess. (We fired the PM while the rest of this was going on.)

Based on the belief that delinquencies were out of hand, we authorized Jack to turn over the unpaid accounts to our law firm for collection. No one at the time knew just how much each individual owner owed nor did we know precisely what the attorney was going to do. (Big mistake on our part.)

Our development is made up of large parcels (36-acres and up) and our only reason for being in existence is to maintain our dirt roads. We assess by the acre and the annual assessments on a 40-acre parcel are about $135. State law limits us to collecting a maximum of 3 years, so the most delinquent owners would owe an average of about $400 at most.

One reason we were having collection problems was that very few owners actually reside on our ranch and most are out-of-state. The most common reason for purchasing a parcel is for a retirement home. When the economy tanked in 2008, owners on the brink moved without forwarding addresses and we had no way to track them down.

I was voted off the board before the stuff hit the fan, but it really hit hard. Our attorney filed suit against at least 60 owners. That is, he filed 60 separate lawsuits. His average fee per lawsuit was $2500, and we were required to pay him whether he won or lost. Yep, we were paying $2500 of hard cash to collect $400 (or less). He filed lawsuits knowing that we could not find defendants. When you cannot find the defendant, the case cannot proceed but he charged us the full amount up front.

He filed lawsuits without making any demand for payment beforehand. One owner was sued because she owed a $15 late fee that neither the attorney nor the management company ever told her about. It cost her $4,000 to settle the case.

Over a two-year period the attorney charged us $170,000 for his services. I have demanded an accounting of how much was owed and how much was collected; the association refuses to divulge these records.

As the bills for legal work kept mounting, most of the board members began questioning the wisdom of the route they had chosen. Each time, Jack argued passionately to keep the attorney working. Finally the rest of board had enough and voted to terminiate the relationship with the attorney. Jack immediately resigned from the board and stomped out.

I cannot prove it, but I suspect that Jack was getting a healthy kickback from the attorney.

Bottom line was the we spent $170,000 to collect less than $24,000 and did not likely collect any of it.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Neighborhood A:

There was a neighborhood made up of 12 subdivisions. Each capable of creating their own HOA. Only 2 did. One of them decided it was the association for every section based on a letter they had from the developer back in the 80s granting them authority over the other sections while the developer was still involved. The board also changed their articles of incorporation to give them power over every other section.

Nearly 15 years some individuals got elected to the board of the HOA that the entire neighborhood believed was the rightful HOA and they decided it was time to start enforcing what little C&Rs we had and that the needed to do more all for property values. They got a new attorney and started sending out enforcement letters, they started pushing for new things, like a new perimeter wall or purchasing land to make a clubhouse. When homeowners rejected their plans they used a workaround, going to the county and getting a MSBU to tax homeowners for the projects they wanted (the county only needed a majority of returned ballots so the HOA got their wall and speed humps with only 20% approval).

The HOA then decided it was going to rewrite the C&Rs for every section, making them stricter and granting them sole control over the properties. The more controversial aspects were that the board can create "mandatory maintenance assessments" at any time they wanted (essentially special assessments) that they could place on every homeowner - even non-members. They did this buy collecting joinder and consent forms from only 51% of the homeowners in each section over a period of 3 years. Their were a few problems with this.

*First, since they collected the signatures over 3 years some of those homeowners moved away making their 51% in reality much less. They also misused their notary stamps and were stamping their own documents in the process.

*Secondly, they were converting negative covenants to positive covenants, which from my understanding requires 100% approval.

*The documents that they did file with the county after they got 51% stated that they converted even sections that did not approve the new covenants.

*They claimed that their rewrite kept the neighborhood voluntary so they did not fit the definition of a HOA per Florida law and so they did not have to abide by their covenants - something their attorney called a "gray area" of the law and that it would stick as long as nobody challenged it.

*They then used these new covenants to demand mandatory payments from some homeowners (other non-amended sections did not have to pay) or face legal action and they started to threaten collections. They also decided to press their claim as the Architectural Control Committee even on sections that did not amend, such as suing a homeowner who installed a metal roof after a hurricane.

*The original C&Rs of every other section apart from their own had a covenant granting a local philanthropic organization sole authority to amend the covenants. This clause was placed in the original documents because when the developer went bankrupt another developer stepped into place and the organization wanted to make sure development was protected. When contacted they viewed the actions of the HOA as in violation but since they were not being directly affected they were not going to get involved.

*And perhaps the biggest issue was that due to MRTA the covenants on the lots they were trying to annex expired, meaning that when they filed a document with the county placing new covenants on properties they had no legal right to, they clouded every homeowner's title.

When they started to do all this people raised questions. I attended a meeting where a homeowner who was a lawyer tried raising some of these issues and the board refused to let her speak. The president just banged his gavel saying he didn't want her to speak and then proceeded to let everyone else ask questions. Another homeowner warned them of the legal mess they were creating and attempted to offer solutions. When the HOA did not listen, that homeowner decided to sue, along with every homeowner who signed the document clouding his title.

As more homeowners became aware and started to ask questions the board decided to ban all non-members, delinquent members, and members who did not become in "good standing" more then 30 days before the meeting (preventing someone from trying to pay at the last minute to attend). They also started holding them in private locations when a lot of people showed up to their last open meeting. They tried to hold it in a real estate office and a neighboring gated community's clubhouse. When those places were faced with legal action from a resident of our subdivision the board rented a conference room at The Holiday Inn and would call up only a few people (presumably those in good standing) and tell them where the meetings were held.

During these meetings the board insisted that their attorney will represent every homeowner being sued, claimed that the lawsuit was over a disputed $100 assessment, and that homeowners shouldn't worry about a thing. They also would lie claiming to have common property that needed maintaining and if homeowners didn't pay their "fair share" the neighborhood would fall apart (they held no property at all). They also lied as to why they were holding secret meetings.

The HOA's solution to the legal challenge was to drag their feet, filing motion after motion and delaying discovery, until the homeowner suing would run out of money. The attorney would then sue for legal fees making (the attorney actually threatened my family providing us with irrelevant court cases and stating that they will win against us and force us to pay thousands if we continued to challenge). The problem with this was that the homeowner suing had the resources to survive a war of attrition.

As the court case progressed it was determined that the HOA lacked any authority to act ever since the developer exited the neighborhood. That made their agreement with the developer no longer enforceable. The judge also ruled that the covenants did in fact expire and not only did the HOA lack authority to do anything out of their own section, they lacked the authority to essentially place new covenants on a property. Their attorney made such horrible arguments, citing mobile home and condominium laws and cases while insisting they were not really a HOA (just in name only) and then gave the Tinkerbell defense - homeowners believed them to be legal therefor they were.

In the end the association shut its doors, the board members and their attorney face personal liability suits. Because of the HOA's actions, not only did they go bust, 50 homeowners are now facing lawsuits for their ignorance (they were offered the ability to settle and have their name removed as a defendant but only one accepted that deal).The legal proceedings are still occurring but according to the board at the last meeting they were running out of money and membership dropped off the map once they learned the homeowner won their lawsuit.

Basically, since the HOA shopped around for an attorney until they got the opinion they wanted, and then refused to listen to any and all outside advice and go against the majority they destroyed a perfectly good association.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Neighborhood B:

This case is similar to Neighborhood A. Neighborhood B is older and had a little messier past.

Essentially one developer started developing then sold to another developer that created the covenants and restrictions and the neighborhood but they didn't create a HOA. There was then another developer involved that created a clubhouse several years later. That club house existed for the residents of the neighborhood to join but that was all. That is why the C&Rs make no reference of a HOA, clubhouse, etc.

Roughly 20 years after the neighborhood was created the HOA hired an attorney (the same attorney from Neighborhood A). He wrote a similar covenant that created a sort of voluntary mandatory membership. Nobody really questioned it because many of the residents were older and because of the way it was written those homeowners were allowed to leave if they wanted. My house was in the process of being transferred over to me during this time because of my fathers death and to be honest, I didn't really understand HOA law at that time and assumed that I had to pay. Mandatory membership was only tied to new homeowners. The neighborhood also involved lower income and limited income individuals so fighting any kind of legal battle was sort of out of the question. I researched the neighborhood and with my experience with Neighborhood A I had some questions. Looking back now I question that amendment not only on the mandatory conversion but also because technically you have a corporation writing themselves into the governing documents and granting themselves greater powers then before (the attorney was also fond of putting clauses in the covenants that referred to the by-laws).

8 years after they passed the mandatory covenant MRTA became applicable and the C&Rs expired. The HOA, with a new board and new attorney, filed a notice of preservation months after the deadline. Unfortunately for them the law is very specific what actions should take place in the case of covenants extinguishing. I had an attorney get involved and I got out. The HOA seems to think that losing me was okay but they continue to insist they are the HOA and that the C&Rs are still in play.

From my experience with Neighborhood A and considering the demographics of Neighborhood B, the HOAs actions have some serious potential to do great harm.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
So basically, the BIGGEST mistake both neighborhoods made was hiring a horrible attorney and not seeking a second opinion or listening to opposing viewpoints when something questionable popped up regarding something serious. While I wouldn't go running for a second opinion on every decision, when an attorney sells their actions as a legal "gray area" then you know something is up.

This attorney attempted to do this down the street in another neighborhood (he had done this all across Central Florida) and they were wise enough to decline his services. They wanted the same thing but were not willing to skirt the law to get it.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
It sounds to me, so far, that the common denominators are attorneys and power hungry Board members. I suppose I have seen that in my own community in a multitude of ways. Overall, I chalk it up to the wrong people serving on the Board.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnH5 on 10/13/2013 10:57 AM
It sounds to me, so far, that the common denominators are attorneys and power hungry Board members. I suppose I have seen that in my own community in a multitude of ways. Overall, I chalk it up to the wrong people serving on the Board.

I wouldn't necessarily say power hungry. I do not doubt these people became board members with good intentions wanting to improve upon the neighborhood. I think the problem lied with them obtaining office and then refusing to listen beyond their inner circle. The board became a sort of echo chamber and groupthink set in. Of course then a lawyer on top of ignorance doesn't really help.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
My HOA's biggest mistake:

Establishing a yearly operating budget that paid all the bills and set aside money for regular maintenance, but believing any "extra" money was profit instead of being necessary for Reserves. Dues were kept too low for too long.

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinK7 on 10/13/2013 12:31 PM
Posted By AnnH5 on 10/13/2013 10:57 AM
It sounds to me, so far, that the common denominators are attorneys and power hungry Board members. I suppose I have seen that in my own community in a multitude of ways. Overall, I chalk it up to the wrong people serving on the Board.


I wouldn't necessarily say power hungry. I do not doubt these people became board members with good intentions wanting to improve upon the neighborhood. I think the problem lied with them obtaining office and then refusing to listen beyond their inner circle. The board became a sort of echo chamber and groupthink set in. Of course then a lawyer on top of ignorance doesn't really help.


I think that Boards that try to force their will upon others using questionable legal tactics might constitute power hungry but that's just my own perception. As they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 10/13/2013 4:54 PM
My HOA's biggest mistake:

Establishing a yearly operating budget that paid all the bills and set aside money for regular maintenance, but believing any "extra" money was profit instead of being necessary for Reserves. Dues were kept too low for too long.


What did your Board do with the "profit"? Did they roll it into the budget for the next year or spend it on something extra? We are dealing with the same problem. Everyone wants to keep our assessments at 2003 levels and what has been going into the reserves isn't enough to ensure that we will have enough to do some very big maintenance projects that are coming due (and some may now be overdue). Combined with pet projects that aren't necessary, we are pretty sure we are going to eventually get hit with special assessments. That wouldn't be so bad but we also have people who seem to have trouble paying their regular dues so I can't imagine how they will be paying for special assessments.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Another mistake I could see as being big is mismanagement of funds.

For instance, at the last meeting the HOA held they were discussing their budget. They were trying to determine which expenditures got a higher priority. The Treasurer (of all people) argued it was a wise decision for the board to prepay for the year pest control for the year on all areas they maintained, which amounted for less then a quarter acre worth of land (a couple entrance way planters and the cul-de-sac islands they took care of). The reasoning was that they got a 10% discount. Ignoring the fact that they were already in dire straits and that they were paying over $1000 for this service which was roughly 1/15th of their budget.

They also created new expenditures over the years like installing electric and water meters for the cul-de-sacs and entrances. Also by banning homeowners from their meetings at the free conference room at the library they now had to pay for a meeting location for membership meetings.

Nobody was willing to make a budgetary sacrifice. When they discussed shutting off the water the Treasure got mad that "her" flowers would die. When they discussed shortening hours for entrance light operation the director in charge of security feared the neighborhood would turn into some gang-ridden cesspool. They paid a lawn maintenance guy to mow what they called their "common property," which in reality was county property that the county would maintain if the HOA ended their use agreement. Everybody wanted something but nobody was willing to give up something.
They also refused to read the writing on the wall and when they made their budget they anticipated increased membership and included the properties in the contested areas. That more then doubled their budget.

I personally think this was due to nobody on the board really having a management background. Everyone joined the board wanting to do something but they did not have the skill set to make it happen.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinK7 on 10/13/2013 10:32 PM
Another mistake I could see as being big is mismanagement of funds.

For instance, at the last meeting the HOA held they were discussing their budget. They were trying to determine which expenditures got a higher priority. The Treasurer (of all people) argued it was a wise decision for the board to prepay for the year pest control for the year on all areas they maintained, which amounted for less then a quarter acre worth of land (a couple entrance way planters and the cul-de-sac islands they took care of). The reasoning was that they got a 10% discount. Ignoring the fact that they were already in dire straits and that they were paying over $1000 for this service which was roughly 1/15th of their budget.

They also created new expenditures over the years like installing electric and water meters for the cul-de-sacs and entrances. Also by banning homeowners from their meetings at the free conference room at the library they now had to pay for a meeting location for membership meetings.

Nobody was willing to make a budgetary sacrifice. When they discussed shutting off the water the Treasure got mad that "her" flowers would die. When they discussed shortening hours for entrance light operation the director in charge of security feared the neighborhood would turn into some gang-ridden cesspool. They paid a lawn maintenance guy to mow what they called their "common property," which in reality was county property that the county would maintain if the HOA ended their use agreement. Everybody wanted something but nobody was willing to give up something.
They also refused to read the writing on the wall and when they made their budget they anticipated increased membership and included the properties in the contested areas. That more then doubled their budget.

I personally think this was due to nobody on the board really having a management background. Everyone joined the board wanting to do something but they did not have the skill set to make it happen.

I think adding things is also a problem. You have to be a visionary and expect that when you make any improvements, there is going to be ongoing associated expenses with maintenance. Few people in our Association ever seem to think this through. It starts out as "wouldn't it be nice if we had.....". They never consider on-going maintenance, insurance if needed, replacement cost, if additional rules or enforcement would be required, who would maintain or handle the improvement or if additional services are required, etc.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
The board more or less added things to justify their conversion attempts. There were no common properties or things that required maintenance before. They pushed to make what they called a "mandatory maintenance association" and then proceeded to add things. Then they would go to the homeowners and say "Look! We have all these things that require maintenance and we need you to pay your fair share!"

They also secretly tried to acquire land to build a clubhouse. That only came out in discovery along with their admission that they held no common property. They then went to the membership and... lied! They told everyone they had common property and as proof they showed pictures of the things they created, like the flowers in the county right-of-way.

My neighborhood had a lot of big mistakes. lol
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It seems to be a tie between not updating the CCRs when the issue first arose, but since that happened long before I moved in (and it's a long complicated story anyway), I'd have to say our parking enforcement debacle.

People were complaining about folks parking in their reserve spaces and at first, we got parking passes for every unit and told everyone to use them. Some did, some didn't and the complaints continued. Last year, we decided to hire a towing company to enforce the rules.

Looking back, we should have polled the community as to what homeowners wanted - it might have prompted people to start obeying the rules without us having to do anything. We should have also consulted our attorney about local law, which is somewhat contradictory on when you can tow, owner notification and all that stuff.

I was on a leave of absence from the board at the time, as I had an evening part time job and I suppose if I'd been at the meetings when all this was decided, I may have been able to persuade them to take a different approach or at least give everyone a 30 day notice. Instead, there was a notice in the newsletter about it and notices were sent to each unit. Unfortunately, these notifications came less than 10 days before the policy took effect.

And so, the trucks came, cars got towed and people were REALLY pissed. The next meeting was a virtual free for all, and in the end, it was cancelled. The Board then consulted with the attorney and held an executive session on how to clean this up and we decided to refund towing charges - that cost about $2500, plus a fee from our attorney to write up an agreement everyone had to sign relieving the association of further liability in exchange for the refund.

We also nixed the towing policy - on the parking passes, that is. Today, homeowners are responsible for going out and dealing with people who park in their spaces. They can also call our security officer, but since he comes through the community at differen times (he's also a cop), the offender may be long gone by the time he arrives. Our security officer does check for inoperable cars and will tag them for towing, as we've adopted the county's parking ordinances as community rules, and that has helped keep the junk cars out of the community.

I must say, although it raised a lot of hell, it managed to drive home the point that one cannot park just anywhere and we haven't had any major parking issues since!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
We have had a couple of blunders; one was when we switched management companies and the old company would not hand over any documents to the new company until their 30 day notice was expired. During that time and the months after until the new company could get all the accounts in order, we had unpaid and late paid bills, and no late dues notices being sent. This could have been avoided had we board members known how to log into online banking and been able to pay the bills online and even gotten into the lock box.

The other thing was last year's president (I have been president for multiple years in the past, not last year, and now I am president again) did some bad things with our budget. We had signed on with a new contract with our cable provider and got a sign on bonus. We agreed to hold the bonus in a reserve account to apply yearly to the cable increases. Also we have houses that we hold the title to (we foreclosed our liens) and we rent out. Last year's president used the cable bonus and rental income and additional income in addition to our dues income, and then raised expenditures that same amount. The problem with this was that we were applying the rental income to pay the current dues, the owed dues, insurance and a small maintenance account on the rental houses, and the cable bonus was going directly to offset decreases. So since we did not really properly fund our operating and reserve accounts, we finally ran out of money this month and had to dip into our investments (we have savings thank goodness). I equate her padding the budget this way to inexperience although she fought me tooth and nail on the issues.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
In my opinion, the biggest mistake my Association did was not having a Reserve study and failing to properly fund for future expenses. Hopefully that was fixed in 2010.

My biggest HOA mistake probably hasn't happened yet as I am still being elected to the Board. Hopefully, it's only minor math or posting errors in the individual lot ledgers.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Accepting management of a townhome HOA without first becoming aware of all the maintenance problems in the common area and the exterior of the 16 building (89 units) involved without adequate reserves to correct them. And now that we know about the severe maintenance problems involved we feel an obligation to help them keep their nose above water.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 10/15/2013 7:06 AM
Accepting management of a townhome HOA without first becoming aware of all the maintenance problems in the common area and the exterior of the 16 building (89 units) involved without adequate reserves to correct them. And now that we know about the severe maintenance problems involved we feel an obligation to help them keep their nose above water.

Please elaborate. By saying "accepting management", do you mean as a Master Association or as a property management company?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnH5 on 10/15/2013 8:41 AM
Posted By RogerB on 10/15/2013 7:06 AM
Accepting management of a townhome HOA without first becoming aware of all the maintenance problems in the common area and the exterior of the 16 building (89 units) involved without adequate reserves to correct them. And now that we know about the severe maintenance problems involved we feel an obligation to help them keep their nose above water.


Please elaborate. By saying "accepting management", do you mean as a Master Association or as a property management company?

"accepting management" relates to the property management company we own.

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