Suspicious activity by renter.. Unit owner responsible??

Hello all,

I have had the weirdest week with HOA issues.. I know welcome to the board right?? LOL
This is no laughing matter though.

I have posted about the thefts and car thefts/ vandalism that has occured recently, people leaving remotes to garage doors in cars causing the issue more etc.

Today I personally was up at early.. to run errands. Our board posted two sets of notices.
The first one notifying everyone set ( 2) of car remotes were stolen, and the need to not have remotes in the cars, and the second indicating the recoding of our gates instructions on getting info etc. BOTH very important. These flyers were all over our property when I left this morning.

I came home to find the entire first set of flyers removed to the point they were ripped off the wall leaving tape and bits of paper, and the several second notices.

The lobby had a few removed today and I thought our cctv views would be easy to catch as it was such a short span of time.

Low and behold a renter who has had issues with rule obeyment in the past is seen ripping a flyer off the wall as she gets into the elevator. Her manner was peculiar as she walked passed it, then you see her arm reaching for notice as she enters the elevator, head down the entire time.. she was trying to be secretive about her body motion.. it's easily seen. It also leads me to beleive she must of remove the others that were missing, unfortunately the other area were not covered by camera.

I have asked the tenant and landlord to appear to our next meeting through the proper channels. I also sent the owner the clear image video of his tenant ripping our garage break in notice off the wall leaving what she did. While now rules were broken, is it a fair inquiry to ask the resident why they did this in such a manner?? It is obvious due to history there are issues with rule observance, but this one is bam bam on video.. I hope the owner finds this suspicious as the board does..

All the thefts reported as of late do not show any unusual entry via the cctv... so all we can do is speculate, why would a renter remove notification flyers??? yes, it was a renter...

Honestly, in my opinion, this isn't relevant.
Stick with the facts of the issue not the past acts of the individuals involved in the issue.


No proof, no eye witness.
Stick with what can be proved. Ignore speculation.


For what goal?

Is removing notices a violation of the rules? If not, it can be frustrating but what is the basis of the issue.

You need to know what it is that you want to make you whole.
Cleaning of the tape in the lobby (remember there is no proof for the hallway)?
Paying to reprint the one or two notices you have proof of being removed (what, a whole 50 cents maybe)?

What is the result you want from the meeting?


Fair enough.

It can be asked that if no rules were broken why did the Board even bother to inform the landlord and incur that expense (as I'm sure that stamp cost more than the one or two notices you can prove).


A fair question or not, does it matter why?

Yes, people like to understand why someone would do something that is seen outside the actions of the general public. However, in my opinion, the reason behind an action like this is not going to help the Board. Instead, the Board should be asking what can be done to prevent such action in the future. Here are a couple of suggestions I have that can be done to prevent this issue in the future:

1. Mail or deliver notices (perhaps by sliding under the door) to the residents vs. posting them in the hallways.

2. Purchase lockable bulletin boards to be mounted in specific locations. This allows the board to post notices without the need to worry that someone will take the notice down.

None of this is helpful... I can see that there is far better advice to be read..

We have a rule against damage to HOA property. If you have a similar one, call the owner to a hearing. In our case, we can fine $50 for the violation plus any expenses for clean up/repair. Owners are responsible for their renters' conduct, which I assume is in your governing docs. It does not matter if the owner didn't properly notify the tenant of the rules

There's no point, as Tim mentions, dealing with the tenant, asking about her "motives," etc. She shouldn't even attend the hearing. Instead make it clear to the Owner that the tenant has violated yet another rule (I assume you have written evidence of previous violations) and the tenant's behavior is unacceptable. If your docs permit, tell the owner that future violations of any kind will lead to a suspension of amenity privileges. Examples might be pool use, even parking for the tenant's visitors (if you can enforce it). If your docs permit, tell the owner that further violations will lead to doubling of fines.

When the owner leaves the hearing, make sure that all of your threats, backed by your docs, are in writing and are sent to the owner.

Tim also gives you some solutions. We have two elevator towers and each of our elevators have secure notice holders in which go important notices, such as the two you describe. Extremely important notices go under doors of the affected units, e.g., "The water will be shut off from floors xx to xx on date x from hours xx to xx for maintenance. We apologize for the inconvenience."

We also have secured notice holders in our two mailrooms, where important notices also are posted, as well as board meeting notices. (Also in the mailrooms are bulletin boards for residents to use. Most common are furniture for sale, and those with deeded parking spaces to rent or residents seeking parking space to rent.)

Now, such notice holders are not cheap, so you might need to budget for them.

I think that Larry's solution goes too far.

Just my two cents, I think posting notices is a terrible way to communicate with property owners. You have no guarantee that all property owners will read or even (as evidenced by the notices being ripped down) see these notices. If this is information that is critical, it should have been mailed out as a formal notice from the Association. If you formally mail such information then you do not leave any room for excuses (ie "I was never informed of..."). Notices should be mailed to property owners AND to tenants.

My other thought is what was printed on this notice. Did the notice specifically state that a renter had their remote stolen or lost? You can notify the property owner that their tenant ripped down a notice but it sounds to me like something else is going on.

I should think it would be cost-prohibitive to do a mail-out for every notice. Email is a much better alternative. For our subdivision, it would cost $350 for postage alone, not to mention copies, man-power used to stuff envelopes, etc. Unless it's an annual meeting or annual assessment invoice, our HOA tries to avoid doing mass mailouts - too time consuming and expensive.

This association has made a lawful decision on how to post notices to inform its members. The fact that there are alternatives is not relevant.

The question is who makes the decisions? The members through their board and officers or some piece of crap that a slumlord dragged in off the street?

The law provides a remedy for dealing with unreasonable people. Use it.

How much of a tax rebate do you get for taking the law into your own hands?

Besides, an injunction is a civil remedy and that parties pay their own expenses. Police do not get involved unless there is a violation of the court order.

I agree with you, Ann, that the gate recoding info should go out by US mail to all absentee owners (37% of our owners), and/or owners who only live on the property part time (about 10%) if members of either group haven't signed up for email-blasts.

Sending every little thing by US mail can be expensive and just isn't needed so much nowadays at least not in our elevator towers. Rule changes must go to Owners by US mail, at least in CA.

Right now and for the next week, we have new owners making a lot of construction noise two floors above us. For ARC approval, the Owners must notify all of us within a three-floor range, but our PM puts the notices under the doors. This project notice also is posted in our elevators.

This is a chance you take when you buy rental property in a distant location. If you are not willing to take that risk then do not buy the property.

Fiona, don't you call owners to hearings and then levy fines? Or are these not in your governing documents. i agree with Larry, that letter after letter is indeed a "namby pamby" approach.

Since you are just now finally calling the owner to hearing, how much could you possibly fine him per your docs and/or state laws?? I'm pretty sure he'll be less "passive" if you fine him to every extent possible!

At least you have a per trail. Can you withhold pool privileges the next time a pool violation occurs? But if fines and withholding amenities are not in your docs, well . . .?

Fiona,

I will add, that if you do want to bring up past activity bring in into the conversation as the Board considers this type of conduct under noxious or offensive activities. Typically CC&Rs have some sort of language or restriction on such activity. Additionally, the language is often vague enough that interpretation of what activity is noxious or offensive is left to the Board's discretion.

hope this helps,

Tim

I will come out and say it.. not everyone is meant for communal living.. was a comment I shared here. I am not stupid enough to comment that in a private meeting. yes, it's my opinion, and I think this renter and the yahoo owner are a pair of morons, but nobody outside our board and this forum would hear that comment.

Fiona,

I didn't think you would have actually said "not everyone is meant for communal living" in that meeting. However, I know that if emotions enter into an issue people will sometimes do what they normally would not do. I could tell from your postings that you are a bit frustrated by this individual. Combine that with what was posted, I posted my reply.

I'm glad it was a typo and you clarified that you wouldn't bring that issue up in your meeting.

Tim

This whole thing smells of a lone board member taking things into his or her own hands.

No mention of a BOD decision to post flyers or what the verbage should be.

This may make the victim feel singled out. A witch hunt if you will.

As others have said proper communication is likely requied to be via USPS first class.

Then geting up early to run errands. Really? What does that matter?

As others have said as well just stick to the facts.

i.e. A resident is seen removing (sanctioned?) flyers. What would you do?

Oh Larry.

What proof do you have the OP is anything stated?

What information do you have on exactly what the verbage is on this flyer?

"All the thefts reported as of late do not show any unusual entry via the cctv... so all we can do is speculate, why would a renter remove notification flyers???..."

It may be subjective or otherwise suggestive of who is believed to be responsible for the inconveniences created by these incidents of crime.

Remember this: "Neighbors are asking who the idiot is that did this.. and they are being told. Not necessarily by me but the news is out who did it and renter is getting heat from homeowners."

No I can't cite a Washington statute?

Can you cite what it may say?

Don't bother, I'm not interested.

Besides, you can't legislate common sense.

If you wish to communicate matters described as "BOTH very important" to ALL members, and in so doing have proof all were notified, posting notes in ad hoc places is subjective.

I would find them annoying.

It has been well established in the OP a week or so ago regarding this issue that the HOA can and must deal with the rentee to resolve these problems.

Deliver the rentee with the vioation notice, allow due process, and resolve the issue in the way the law describes.

If that means: "I have asked the tenant and landlord to appear to our next meeting through the proper channels." then so be it.

If not, do what's required, stop wasting time and creating drama.