Getting a Home Owners Address for HOA

Started by ShonaJ • 9 replies • 1678 views

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ShonaJ (Arizona)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Hello. I bought a house in October 2005 in Queen Creek, AZ in a planned community. At the time of purchase I signed a number of documents with the title company, plus had a handover with the builder. I was told explicitly to have the utilities connected which I did, but they made no mention of the home owners association. All correspondence with the builder (Engle Homes) and the title company was to my Colorado address which has been the same since 2001.

Due to visa restrictions (work) my family was not able to move to the house. From October 2005 until May 2006, the house was empty and I visited it every second week to pick up mail. Never once was there a letter/account addressed to me. In May 2006 I let the house out - as you can appreciate we could not afford to pay 2 mortgages plus have an empty house.

My tennant has been very happy in the house and has looked after it very well.

In January 2007 I received a letter from an attorney stating that I was in default of the feels to the 'Declaration' (home owners association). Payment is not optional but mandatory. I have absolutely no problem paying any bill, but I do have a huge problem with receiving an attorney's letter to the value of $1713.58 that included $1000 worth of fees/penalties.

I have NEVER received a statement to my Colorado Address, nor have I received an account to my Queen Creek home - I have checked with the tennant. I have recently gone back through all my documents to find that in fact I did sign that there was a home owners, but there is no address, association name on the document that I signed.

If I didn't receive a bill, how do I know that I am supposed to pay anything. In the attorney's letter, it is stated 'it if your responsiblity to keep the Association apprised of your address'. I am still not sure how I can do this if I don't know any of their details. After receiving this certified letter from the attorney, I called them immediately and she told me 'you are not the only person in this situation'.

My questions are:
- am I able to go to small claims to claim the fines amounts?
- in the USA, how can a person pay a bill if they don't know that they are liable for it?
- where should the HOA source the home owner's address from? - I am not a voter, but all correpondence with Engle Homes and the title company are for my Colorado address.

Will REALLY appreciate some response!

BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418

Posted:

- am I able to go to small claims to claim the fines amounts?
Possibly, there isn't enough information here to tell. But be aware your tenet may be the cause of your fines and as the owner you are responsible.

- in the USA, how can a person pay a bill if they don't know that they are liable for it?
- where should the HOA source the home owner's address from? - I am not a voter, but all correpondence with Engle Homes and the title company are for my Colorado address.
People are liable all the time; the courts tend to view what is reasonable and what isn't so there might be an argument there. The law says that if you didn't update your address that sending things to the old known address works. Based on what you said, it seems to me that the Association made the mistake of using the physical address of the lot and not the known mailing address which the building and former HOA manager had on file.

That is one in a long chain of mistakes our former management company made as well and when we learned of it we waived the late fees and interest because the owner lived 250 miles away. Sure the tenet should have forwarded the mail but the past records we found showed the other address for that Owner and the management company ignored that when they populated thier systems.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Shona:

To cut to the chase you are liable for the amount they are seeking. It could be argued that since you were never billed you shouldn't owe late fees, I am not an attorney and can't speak to it. I do know in our association we have had a couple homes fall through the cracks when sold and we didn't find out for months later and waived late fees for new owners since they had not received a bill from us. That is what we did, in my opinion on the surface that is what should happen here, but as the other Brad said your tenant could be cause of it by throwing away HOA notices, etc. I know you said they did't but you never really know.

Options, I would send them a check for the dues owed and ask in written form that all late fees and penalties be waived. It could help to include a check for dues for the next two to three months as a show of good faith. If they refuse I guess you could go to small claims court over it, I really don't know how that would work.

Another option I have seen tried here is send a check for the dues and write "paid in full" on the memo line. Technically a check is a legal document and if they cash it they are agreeing that you have paid in full. That happened to us and we wrote back to them that we do not negotiate late fees, but it was a totally different situation than this. I don't condone misleading anyone and think the first option is the best option.

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

First you need to contact the HOA management company. Contact the builder to get the management company contact information.

Call on the telephone and ask to speak with the property manager for your subdivision.

Check to see what address they have on file for you. Ask them to forward you a detailed copy of the amounts you owe them, less the collection fees.

Let them know that you will immediately pay the account up to date, less the collections fees, which you will protest.

Find out where to send the money that you owe; how the check should be made out.

Make sure that they inform you how to pay the monthly dues as they come due so you can keep current.

Ask them to mail you copies of all written correspondence they have sent to you. This will prove where they have sent the collection letters.

At this point you will have let them know that they will receive a check immediately for the outstanding balances, minus the collection fees, and that you will keep current on the monthly dues.

When you receive the copies of the collection letters and correspondence you were sent, then you will have to make a decision as to whether to pay the collection fees, or to go to small claims court to fight the collection fees.

Make it very clear that the only thing you are protesting is the collection fees, and make sure that you get current on the amounts due the association, minus those fees right away.

You really don't want to fight the collection fees in court because the expense is not worth it if you lose. Going to small claims court could also be a problem because you would have to file in the Arizona jurisdiction for Queen Creek, and that could mean several trips to AZ for the small claims court, and you could lose. But that's a decision you'll have to make after you receive the documents you need to see what happened with the correspondence.

While it is the responsibility of the management company to contact you, if they have mailed letters to your home in Queen Creek, and don't have your Colorado address, then that would be your problem. Because the Bylaws that you received at closing state that there are dues, then it would be your responsibility to follow up with the builder to see what those fees are and how they are paid. The courts may decide in the favor of the collection attorney if they have done everything by the book.

Good luck.

RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505

Posted:

Have you checked at the county recorder's office to see what address they have on the deed? Unless there is some clerical error, I would guess that address was where the letters were sent. If you want, I can easily find out that address and email it to you if you give me your Queen Creek home address. This is public information.

I would also decide where you want to draw the line in the sand. Would you be willing to pay some of the late fees if they HOA forgave the rest? Taking an All or Nothing approach might not get as far as showing you recognize you have responsibilities, but you just didn't realize how bad it was. Just a suggestion.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Shona I would immediately pay the past due amount and any current charges then request the HOA to waive the late charges and legal fees stating the reasons and request copies of any previous attempts to contact you.

While phone calls are convenient as far as the law is concerned in most cases if it's not in writing it never happened, how do you prove what was said in a phone conversation. (Yes I know you can record it but that opens up a whole other can of worms.)

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829

Posted:

In many states once the account is sent to the attorney and a lien is filed, the management company may not be able to speak with you and you can only settle this by going through the attorney. As always check with your states Planned Community Act as well as in this case your states collection laws. I would do the following:

1. Contact the attorney asking for a forbearance agreement.
2. In writing put forth your dilemma to the board (send to the attorney)and ask if; a) they would waive the late fees b) agree to a settlement.

The assessment amount cannot be negotiated and in most cases the attorney fees would not be negotiated since these are real dollar amount loss. However the late fees, fines or penalties could be settled upon.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

I am not up on my collection practices, but don't you have the right under the Fair Debt Collection Act to request a collection agent/entity stop contacting you and request that you work with the original party to satisfy your claim?

JM2 (Oregon)
Posts: 439

Posted:

Hi Shona:

If you contact the management company, it is likely that they will not be able to discuss what you owe, and refer you to the attorney.

The advice to send a check for dues to the attorney and a letter to the board through the attorney is the right way to go.

Here are some essentials (most listed above):
- get a copy of the records from the county in AZ re: the address listed on your deed - to know where the billing should have been sent.
- request (through the Attorney) copies of all the billings and collection letters that have been sent since your purchase (to see where they have been sent) as well as any other communication sent (welcome letters, etc.).
- if there has been any mistakes on the part of the management company, be sure to point those out to the HOA's attorney.
- if you are totally in the right and the HOA & attorney are unwilling to make an accomodation, be prepared to find your own attorney and fight this....but if (by chance) things were sent to the correct address, be ready to concede. This would include a situation where your tenant may have discarded mail.
- get dates for when billing did start, etc.

In my previous job as a portfolio manager, I discovered that there was one lot in a subdivision of 500+ lots where the proper paperwork was never sent to the management company, and we had no record of the sale. Our accounting dept. got a copy of the warranty deed, and I wrote them a letter explaining the situation, and suggesting that they contact accounting to set up a payment plan (which they did); this was about 3 years after the sale.

Best of luck!

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

ShonaJ (Arizona)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Hello and thank you very much for the information and appreciate the input. I took all the advice that everyone has provided, contacted the HOA. The lady I talked to was very helpful but did tell me that it was with the attorney. When I said that I had responded to the attorney, she mentioned that it is then probably with the 'board for review which can take up to 1 month'. The attorney letter stated that they are giving me opportunity to bring my acccount current.

I sent them a certified letter with:
- payment of all dues plus the next quarter (didn't include all the penalties)
- correction of address to be my Colorado address
- request for copies of all previous correspondence

Hopefully I will have it resolved in the next few weeks. What has really annoyed me is that it seems that the builder/title company has been bloody minded about things as when I initially contacted the attorney she said 'you are not the only person in this situation'. I am happy to accept liability but it is almost like it is a 'family business' in that they have intentionally not passed on the correct information - when I didn't move into the house, I notified Engle Homes that I was going to rent out the property. I have learnt so much about all this stuff and have checked my county records and it has me as 'owner occupied'. Anyway, hopefully things will work out just fine.

Thanks.
Shona.

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