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JoannK (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hello,

Our governing documents are signed by the director, (the builder) and another person, and they posed as each other's witnesses as well. We are governed by the state of MD and the county as well.
Thank you.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
You are welcome.

Please, feel free to come back anytime you might have a question.
JoannK (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I see that I did not actually ask my question,

Our HOA documents are governed by the state and county, and they are signed by the directors. Those same people are also the witnesses to each others signature which it was all set up. Is that legal in signing a contract? Does that void the contract?
Thank you
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Yes, it's most likely legal. I can't speak for every state and state law governing contracts, but what you describe is pretty typical.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannK on 10/02/2013 8:48 AM
I see that I did not actually ask my question,

Our HOA documents are governed by the state and county, and they are signed by the directors. Those same people are also the witnesses to each others signature which it was all set up. Is that legal in signing a contract? Does that void the contract?
Thank you

Joann

More information needed.

Are you asking about Covenants, Bylaws, Rules and Regulations? They are all "docs".

Are you asking about docs registered with the deed?

Are you talking about the docs you agreed to abide with when you bought?

What makes you ask?

My first blush is if they are the original "docs" registered with the deed then they are valid unless portions are against the law, then laws will prevail no matter what the docs say.

Thanks.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
John has valid questions. I'd also like to know what your concerns are

As for the witnessing, that would have to fall back to MD laws. From what I gather, some of your HOA documents were signed and witnessed by the same 3 people. Were they also notarized? Did they need to be? and do you have official copies of the documents as filed with your municipality/county? I would start with them, ask if those documents need to meet specific witness requirements or notary requirements. Having an official copy isn't a bad idea either.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Sounds like to me..... the developer made the bylaws, signed them and then had them witnessed. Since he is the developer, he can do whatever he wants.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Is the developer still in control or has he handed over control to the HOA?
JoannK (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks to all, Steve has it correct and it has been turned over to the homeowners. I am asking as I just discovered it myself as I was looking the document over. I am a homeowner and board member. It feels as if that should be wrong, and from what I've researched,the person who has a vested interest in said documents/contract can not witness signatures.
thanks again!
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
If you recently received the HOA from the developer, it would be prudent to make sure that the board has an official copy of the Declaration and Bylaws, as on file at the Register of Deeds. That is the official document, not any copies that were handed out to owners.

While there, I would inquire as to your concerns about the signatures. They may seen enough of that to know if it's normal or not. Or a quick call to an attorney, or perhaps your secretary of state.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannK on 10/02/2013 10:45 AM
It feels as if that should be wrong, and from what I've researched,the person who has a vested interest in said documents/contract can not witness signatures.
thanks again!

Do not tell that to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... The book of Mormon was witnessed by vested parties. Technically, so was much of the New Testament. And honestly, the entire Bible was re-written at one point at the behest of a guy with a HUGE vested interest in it, by a bunch of clerics with HUGE vested interests in it as well.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Great analogy!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannK on 10/02/2013 10:45 AM

I am asking as I just discovered it myself as I was looking the document over. I am a homeowner and board member. It feels as if that should be wrong, and from what I've researched,the person who has a vested interest in said documents/contract can not witness signatures.

For each specific document you will need to see if there is a state requirement regarding how they are signed. I know from experience that in my state articles of incorporation and bylaws do not require a notary or other witnesses. I am not aware of any statutes in my state that require signatures on a declaration to be witnessed or notarized. If there is no requirement in your state for notaries or other witnesses when signing the particular documents then the fact that one person claimed to witness the other's signature is irrelevant.

Having had some experience in the past with people who call themselves "developers," my first guess would be that whatever your builder recorded was not likely reviewed by an attorney. This is because attorneys want to be paid either before or when they provide their services and "developers" rarely have enough cash to cover those costs.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Joann

What is your issue/agenda?

What are you not liking about the docs you signed for?
JoannK (Maryland)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks so much for all of your help! I will research further from here!
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
It feels as if that should be wrong, and from what I've researched,the person who has a vested interest in said documents/contract can not witness signatures.


Feelings aside, there is no law against it.

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