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PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
Dear Posters:
A question has been raised about an 'association' (resident group) being sued by a unit owner/resident who happens to endure a fall on the ice, lands in the hospital, requires extensive surgery & therapy, loss of wages, etc. It has been proved that the fall was due to icy conditions which the assn's 'board' did not authorize to have cleaned or maintained. And, to boot, it was trash night!!! The resident files a law suit against the association due to not having the ice/snow removed--resulting in their fall when they put out their trash for pickup.

Now, this is purely hypothetical. What do some of you think about the legality of this situation? If the resident who has been hurt actually wins their case, is the association as a group liable for the award money?

This question came up as we are looking to change our homeowner insurance provider. I would appreciate your input and any personal experiences you have had on paying court costs on a case which your assn. has lost.

Thanks to all for reading my 'fake but could be real--story' and for your thoughts.

BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
You are talking about Liability insurance and it isn't that much for our Association. We have Director & Officer and Liability Insurance for about $450 a year. Most By-Laws or Declaration of Covenants indicate that the board should do everything they can to insulate the Association for suits and to protect the board and officers. If your Association does not have Liability and Director & Officer Insurance I would get it right away.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You may also want to find out if the homeowner's insurance covers such "accidents". Some HOA's don't have "common property". Each individual is responsible for insuring their own property. If the HOA is responsible for "common property" they should have liability insurance PLUS the homeowner's should have their own policy.
Technically, the person shouldn't be suing at all. They should be directed to the insurance company to make a claim. However, their insurance may pick up the claim and THEN that insurance may sue the HOA's insurance. Much like any car accident.
Just make sure the HOA does have liability insurance. It not only protects the board members from bad decisions resulting in damages but ALL the homeowner's as well.

Former HOA President
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Paul:

If you association has common area you need liability insurance, and as someone said before it isn't too much. As for the hypothetical incident you described, ice is very tricky and anyone who walks on it accepts some inherent risk depending on where it is. That said, the HOA needs to make an above reasonable attempt to clear ice and snow from walkways in a reasonable amount of time.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
thanks, Brad. But, I'm confused. Am I to understand that if a resident sues the assn., goes to court, and wins the case, that the liability insurance the Board carries (on themselves? or do they carry liability insurance for all the association as a group?) will cover court costs and award money to the resident who won the case?
So, there is no out of pocket money expected from residents to pay for this settlement?

BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
No, there is always a deductible.

Also there are three types of insurance that an Association usually has. Liability, Property Damage and Director & Officer.
Liability is for the Association if they are sued because they are somehow found or assumed to be liable, as in the fall you mentioned if clearing the sidewalk is a duty of the Association. Property Damage is for when things get broken that the Association owns. Director & Officer is to protect the Board and Officers for decisions they made.

There are always caveats with insurance. For example, if the Board or an Officer is found to be pursuing a person agenda or is doing something clearly not in the best interest of the community the insurance might not cover them. I found a case where a board lived near each other in a very large community and restored/upgraded a playground/park near them while ignoring the other parks in the community. They also purchased golf carts with Association money and were seen regularly using them for personal business. I have forgotten some of the other things they did but the impression was that they were using the Association for their own benefit. When sued they were sued personally and the insurance company refused to help them.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
Sorry, still not getting it. My last question was if the residents were expected to pay for the award/settlement. You answered, no, theres always a deductible. Then who pays the deductible? Isn't this money out of residents pocket (in spec.assessment) if there is none in the general budget for court settlements (which usually there isn't). Sorry, don't get it.

Roger, can you speak to this issue as well?

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Paul, The insurance company may or may not pay depending on the specific circumstances based on what the insurance policy covers. The association must pay their deductable but that is usually only $500 to $2,000. We would recommend a contingency fund in the reserve account to cover the deductable if required. When insurance does not pay then a special assessment may be required. I recommend each HOA have their insurance agent thoroughly explain insurance options to a member who is experienced in insurance in the presence of at least some of the Board members.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Paul:

It is also important that you have D & O coverage on your board members which is seperate from liability. This will prevent them from personally getting sued. If you have these policies the only time you need to be worried as a homeowner about having to pay is when an someone in your neighborhood acts with gross negligence. Otherwise if you have a good policy the insurance should cover it.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Brad, I believe you meant to say D&O insurance would cover them except for gross negligence. No insurance prevents them from being sue. Besides D&O and Liability I recommend Fidelity (theft) insurance. And for some associations which have employees (beyond independent contractors) other insurance including Worker's Comp.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Roger:

Thanks, that is what I meant to say.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Paul:

There are so many variables to your "fake but could be real story", example, if you are an HOA and the Owner or guest fell on your steps leading to your home, then it would be your homeowners (for your home) insurance that would be sued for the injuries. As with any lawsuit, the attorney involved in filing the suit would sue all parties that could be brought into the lawsuit, they always aim for the deepest pockets.

I would check with your insurance agent, and others for the best possible price on liability along with an umbrella policy for the association. The board should always be covered with D&O insurance as well.

If your insurance policy is "old" (in that you have renewed many years over with the same insurance company) it would be beneficial to begin pricing out other companies for the best quote. Include your present insurance agent in the re-pricing too. Many times when they know you are bidding it out they will come down on their policy.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
Thanks to all for your input. I apologize that I was not clear in my original posting that it is 'me' as the individual who lives in the community who is asking this question for 'personal' liability insurance coverage.

I'll try to explain myself. Is it possible to carry insurance as a community resident for when/if an association (or is it the Board???) takes a resident to court, loses the case, and the resident taken to court is awarded a settlement. Does the Assn's Liability insurance kick in if the case is lost, and if not, does the award then have to be paid by residents?

I realize the Board has liability insurance on themselves to absolve them from wrongdoing. I have read on this site of problems with cases lost and a large compensation then must be paid by the residents in a spec.assessment/s. This is what I am asking about. Please bear with me in my questions. Thanks.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Paul:

As others have said if the HOA loses a judgement and their insurance does not pay, then yes the responsibility falls on the residents, either in the form of HOA reserve money or a special assessment to members or any combination of the two.
JM2 (Oregon)
Posts: 439
Posted:
Hi Paul:

A few things...
1) As a homeowner you would want to cover your own property for fire & other types of damage; you would also want liability in case someone sues you for whatever reason. You may want to get an umbrella policy that kicks in once you have paid your deductible and your other insurance has paid out, to cover excess losses.
2) On your hypothetical case, part of the answer would depend on whether it's a condo (the homeowner typically owns the airspace inside and everything else is a common element, including the private street that goes through the condo property) or a PUD where everybody owns their own home. If it's a condo, the Board has a duty to clear streets and sidewalks. If it's a PUD, it depends somewhat on the documents...the Board may have a maintenance responsibility spelled out in the Declaration for snow removal - or may not. Also, that may be dependent on whether it's a public or a private street and how the maintenance requirement is spelled out.
3) One way to think about insurance: everybody is insured...if you don't have an insurance policy, then you've chosen to self-insure - you cover any losses personally. The same with the HOA: they choose the insurance coverage they want or (in some instances) can get; that includes how high/low a deductible, the level of coverage, etc. A good board will want sufficient coverage to handle any occurrence with no out-of-pocket other than the deductible.

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
JM2:
Yes, I would want to cover my own property against damage, that is a given.
Re 2)--we are not a condo; the Board does have the duty of clearing streets and sidewalks, according to docs. However, in this 'instance' they did not clear. See original post.

Re 3)--So, I'm still unclear. If the Board/Assn. has 'lost' the case, is the award money to the resident who 'won' the law suit paid from the assn.'s insurance? or from residents? thru spec. assessment if not enough funds in contingency or otherwise.

Thanks JM2.

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