Change use of Amenity - Florida

Started by JerryS10 • 5 replies • 1521 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JerryS10 (Florida)
Posts: 5

Posted:

My situation exists in the State of Florida and I understand the law [section 718.113] in general. Basically that no no material alteration or substantial additions to the common elements can take place, except in a manner provided in the declaration as originally recorded. If the declaration as originally recorded or as amended under the procedures provided therein does not specify the procedure for approval of material alterations or substantial additions, 75 percent of the total voting interests of the association must approve the alterations or additions.

However, what I am having a problem is what qualifies as "material". I have heard some say it can be as simple as changing the color of the building.

This is my situation. There are 4 rooms designated as exercise rooms: 2 male and 3 female. The BOD is attempting to change one of the female designated rooms to a co-ed facility. Does this alteration require a vote by the owners?

Most likely it can be interpreted different ways, and ultimately might need to be determined in court. However, I am hopeful to receive opinions from this experienced and learned forum.

Thank you.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Not a lawyer, but I have a hard time seeing how that could be a material alteration.

As is asked in nearly every thread: What do your documents say? Do they say that there shall be exercise facilities at all?

JerryS10 (Florida)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Thanks for reply.

Documents state that there are to be two men and 2 woman exercise facilities.

Reasons stated several users in discussion as to why it changes.

1. The obvious change is it eliminates exclusive use of room by sex.
2. The equipment changes so that it better equips both sexes.
3. it states on blueprint that room is to be used by particular sex.
4. There are signs posted outside of room indicating particular sex.
5. Currently each ER has its own toilet, shower and sauna. Upon the changes,
men in the converted co-ed room will not have access to these. Instead he will
be required to access these facilities in another location in another building.
6. Though not yet detailed, it has been implied that this change will also require
equipment type changes in the other 3 rooms.
7. There are tv sets in each room for users enjoyment. Certainly men and woman do not watch
the same shows.
8. Certainly women talk more than men creating a different workout environment.

Is it still 'hard time' decision?

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Jerry, you wrote that there are 4 rooms-- 2 male & 3 female. Please clarify.

I'm pretty sure a "material" alternation involves removing walls, adding rooms, etc. It does not involve paint color. I agree that this isn't a "material" alternation.

But what you really seem to be talking about is someone trying to alter your governing documents, which clearly state room use based on gender. To change the governing doc probably would require a vote by owners.

But . . . wait a minute. Which document did you cite? CC&Rs?? Or Rules & Regs? How old are they? The blueprint which shows separate rooms for each sex is not a governing document.

I'd ask your HOA attorney if it's even legal for your docs to specify men only or women only in your common areas. There might be a legal issue here.

Having worked out in more than a dozen gyms in various states, including in HOA gyms, including a daily workout in my current HOA gym, I can promise you that:

1. Women do not talk more than men in gyms.
2. There does not have to be specialized equipment based on gender.
3. Why can't women & men use the same sauna?
4. Why can't men & women use the same toilets? Coed toilets are common in restaurants in the US and even a bank of toilet rooms in European restaurants are coed.
5. Men & men don't watch the same TV shows, just as women & women don't watch the same shows.
6. That there are "Men" & "Women" signs doesn't matter.

The toilet/sauna issue might be a problem if one must walk through the dressing/shower area(s) to access them. Otherwise, is it that far to a different building?

The approach to this issue in your HOA sounds oddly very dated--like a time warp kinda thing.

JerryS10 (Florida)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Again thanks for your response.

All your points are well taken.

Some of your questions would receive various answers based upon the age of respondents (re sauna, etc)Remember, this is Florida and the older persons often have a different perspective.

No question this will go to an attorney, but I just wanted to get some input here.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Jerry, in which gov. doc is the gender topic spelled out?

I've lived in Florida & was a member of a gym. Members were all ages. The gym was coed, the sauna was coed. The Jacuzzi was coed. Because there was no way to use the toilets without walking through the changing/shower areas, the toilets were not coed. Our toilets in my HOA's gym aren't coed for the same reason. We do have a coed toilet in each of our two lobbies. Many older residents use our gym. I'd say that about 60% of our residents are over 60 years old.

Most older residents, but by no means all, tend to ride the stationary bikes and use the treadmills. Our treadmills have little TV screens on them and users wear their own ear phones to hear them. In addition, we have 3 TVs mounted on the walls.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here