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RV's

Started by RichardS25 • 17 replies • 2190 views

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RichardS25 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Our Florida HOA says you cannot park an RV for more than 4 hours in your driveway. I know a lot
of HOA's ban RV's all together. Another Board member says county law supersedes HOA. It says you may not have an RV
more than 48 hours. Our point is HOA can further define county rule for 4 hours in our HOA, if it stays over 48 hours both are violated. Board member says no we cannot say 4 hours it must be 48 per the county.

Don't most HOA have their own RV regulations?
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Do you have public or private roads? The reason I ask is that if you have public roads, people could just park on the road and be subject to the county rules, not the HOA rules.

What is the purpose of allowing them at all if they're restricted to only 4 hours? It probably takes longer than that to prep, clean, and pack/unpack one when travelling.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> Another Board member says county law supersedes HOA.

It depends on the text of the county law and the text of the HOA law.

The county law might have been written to prevent HOAs from imposing a restrictive rule. If this is the case the word "irregardless" or similar will appear.

It's like rules on paint color. The county doesn't restrict paint color. The HOA can impose (or more correctly, its owners can agree contractually to abide by) a rule that limits paint colors.
PatriciaH4 (Texas)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Our restrictions state: "No one shall park, store or keep within or adjoining the Property any large commercial-type vehicle (dump truck, cement-mixer truck, oil or gas truck, delivery truck, tractor or tractor trailer, and any other vehicle equipment, mobile or otherwise, deemed to be a nuisance by the Board), or any recreational vehicle (camper unit, motor home, truck, trailer, boat, mobile home or other similar vehicle deemed to be a nuisance by the Board).

That being said, our board feels homeowners/residents should be able to bring an RV in to ready prior to or after a trip, so overnight is allowed. It is the one's that are brought in and parked for longer than a day or two that are problems and are addressed.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 09/13/2013 8:22 AM
> Another Board member says county law supersedes HOA.

It depends on the text of the county law and the text of the HOA law.

The county law might have been written to prevent HOAs from imposing a restrictive rule. If this is the case the word "irregardless" or similar will appear.

It's like rules on paint color. The county doesn't restrict paint color. The HOA can impose (or more correctly, its owners can agree contractually to abide by) a rule that limits paint colors.

Very good answer Fred. One must look at the intent of the higher law, in order to know if another law is in conflict. If a more restrictive lower law is in conflict with a higher order law, it won't survive a test. If a more restrictive lower law is simply more defining/restrictive, but not in conflict, it will survive a test.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianB on 09/13/2013 9:49 AM
Posted By FredS7 on 09/13/2013 8:22 AM
> Another Board member says county law supersedes HOA.

It depends on the text of the county law and the text of the HOA law.

The county law might have been written to prevent HOAs from imposing a restrictive rule. If this is the case the word "irregardless" or similar will appear.

It's like rules on paint color. The county doesn't restrict paint color. The HOA can impose (or more correctly, its owners can agree contractually to abide by) a rule that limits paint colors.


Very good answer Fred. One must look at the intent of the higher law, in order to know if another law is in conflict. If a more restrictive lower law is in conflict with a higher order law, it won't survive a test. If a more restrictive lower law is simply more defining/restrictive, but not in conflict, it will survive a test.

Typical conflict. Local law says no fence can be more then 8 foot tall.

The HOA restricts fences to 6 foot tall.

The HOA says fences are not allowed.

Conflict? Which one could survive?

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:

>The HOA restricts fences to 6 foot tall.

>The HOA says fences are not allowed.

>Conflict? Which one could survive?

This is not a serious question, is it?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 09/13/2013 8:22 AM
If this is the case the word "irregardless" or similar will appear.

I hope not.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> I hope not.

My apologies. At least "regardless" is similar.

(BruceF1 is reminding me that irregardless is not actually a word)
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatriciaH4 on 09/13/2013 9:00 AM
Our restrictions state: "No one shall park, store or keep within or adjoining the Property any large commercial-type vehicle (dump truck, cement-mixer truck, oil or gas truck, delivery truck, tractor or tractor trailer, and any other vehicle equipment, mobile or otherwise, deemed to be a nuisance by the Board), or any recreational vehicle (camper unit, motor home, truck, trailer, boat, mobile home or other similar vehicle deemed to be a nuisance by the Board).

This is a lawsuit just waiting to happen.

There is no certainty in a deed restriction that is subject to the arbitrary standards of the board and where those standards will change from one board to another. Courts have generally held that deed restrictions must be clear and unambiguous to be legally enforceable. This covenant is a real pig-in-a-poke.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Typical conflict. Local law says no fence can be more then 8 foot tall.

The HOA restricts fences to 6 foot tall.

The HOA says fences are not allowed.

Conflict? Which one could survive?

One would have to see what the context was of the statute when written (typically, it could be found in the preamble). That would explain if the writers wanted to limit the height of fences to 8 feet or less, or had some other idea.

From the wording used HERE, it would seem they wanted fences to be no more than 8 feet tall, period.

Thus, an HOA with a six foot fence rule is NOT in conflict. Also, an HOA that bans fences is also not in conflict.

Add a few words to the "law", however, and different results will occur.

All fences must be 8 foot tall: 6 foot HOA is in conflict, no fence HOA is not.

All lots must be fenced, and no more than 8 foot tall: 6 foot HOA okay, No fence HOA in conflict.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
As I pointed out in another thread, and has been explained by Brian, It's not that the HOA rules are superseded by existing laws. It's that the HOA rules may not be in conflict with existing laws. If a conflict exists, then the law is what has to be complied with.

Now, as Matthew pointed out, if there is disagreement on what is or isn't a conflict, then a determination would be needed by the courts.

RichardS25 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Understood no conflict
but for the last time does anyone know the federal law, so I can ascertain if I am in conflict
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:

I know of no federal law that addresses parking vehicles in your own driveway.

Typically it's the State, County and City that would address that issue, as it's a local issue.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
You can always do the research for any applicable federal law yourself.

Start here: http://www.dot.gov/
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

One of the main things being said here is quite often a Covenant will be more restrictive then a local law. Along this line, street parking regulations are quite often discussed on here.

If local laws says RV's can be parked for no more then 48 hours but the Covenants say no more then 4 hours. I believe the Covenants prevail as in win.

If the Covenants do not set a limit of less then 48 hours then the local law prevails. Could your association amend the Covenants to say 4 hours? Yes they could. Covenants can be amended. The procedures how to amend will be in your docs.

One reason many BOD's get in trouble is they try to over ride laws/Covenants/Bylaws with their own Rules & Regulations (R&R's). One issue often discussed is BOD's trying to limit renters. I say your BOD alone could not restrict RV parking to 4 hours.

Generally Covenants and Bylaws (which you signed to agree with) are fairly cast in concrete. Most courts have held that because you signed and you agreed, the burden is on you. They must be abided by unless "properly/legally" changed and rarely can the BOD alone change such.

BOD's can "clarify" with R&R's. Let us say your Covenants say the BOD must be between 5-7 members. The BOD could make an R&R saying 5 so the BOD is now 5 members. Now the same or a new BOD decides to go to 7 members. They simply make a new R&R saying the BOD is now 7 members. Now a few years later the BOD decides to go back to 5. This stuff happens..........LOL

Hope this helps.

FredO (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
The test to determine if the parking rule is valid is the reasonable test. If a 4 hour parking window is not reasonable to accomplish what activities you intend to accomplish regarding the RV (such as prep or unpack from a trip, wash & Wax, minor maintenance etc) then the rule is basically unenforceable according to our HOA Attorney.

Our HOA RV parking rules state that you can park during the day but the RV has to be removed at night. This is reasonable as it gives you time to pack or unpack from a trip.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Fred

We had a similar rule about RV's and boats. No overnight parking. We also looked the other way if it was an occasional infraction. Arrive home late at night (maybe after midnight) and park the RV in the driveway. Gone by late afternoon. Was that overnight?

Often if we got a complaint, by the time we "investigated" the violation it did not exist.

One busybody called someone on the BOD once and asked (ordered) they come immediately and investigate a complaint of a boat left in a driveway overnight. They replied I would like to but I am in Japan and this call to my cell phone must be costing you a fortune. The busybody hung up real quick....never gave the address of the violation....LOL

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