💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with a lack of disabled parking spaces? We don't have enough spaces here and the board did not add any when the parking lot was recently repaved. Although there is ample parking, the handicapped spaces that exist are VERY far apart and might be 100 or more feet from a home. There is also a problem with WIDTH of spaces, even if one is found close to home.

Has anyone been successful at compelling their HOA to add or rearrange disabled parking?

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
My Association is in a town home development. There are no driveways, so everyone has to use what parking is available. We don't have disabled parking.
Instead, we assigned (in our case, two) parking spaces to each lot for their exclusive use. These spaces were as close to the property as possible. The few left over spaces are on a first come basis.

We are of the understanding that by assigning spaces, we are not required to have disabled parking. Note, check with your Attorney to be sure this applies to you and your specific development. I suspect that a condo with a parking garage or a development where that parking spaces are not near the actual lots/units, may be required to have disabled parking. Therefore, check to be sure.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Thanks Tim. We have a different situation than you do since we have driveways with overflow parking in a common area.

Do check out Fair Housing Law, however. The example from its site seems to support your belief about "reserved" spaces but there still seems to be a burden on the HOA to offer accommodation and a resident might be able to request HUD intervention.

"Requires housing providers to make reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities. A reasonable accommodation is a change in rules, policies, practices, or services so that a person with a disability will have an equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling unit or common space. A housing provider should do everything s/he can to assist, but s/he is not required to make changes that would fundamentally alter the program or create an undue financial and administrative burden. Reasonable accommodations may be necessary at all stages of the housing process, including application, tenancy, or to prevent eviction.

Example: A housing provider would make a reasonable accommodation for a tenant with mobility impairment by fulfilling the tenant's request for a reserved parking space in front of the entrance to their unit, even though all parking is unreserved." -http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/disabilities/inhousing

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/disabilities/fhefhasp

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 09/10/2013 10:41 PM

We have a different situation than you do since we have driveways with overflow parking in a common area.

Do check out Fair Housing Law, however. The example from its site seems to support your belief about "reserved" spaces but there still seems to be a burden on the HOA to offer accommodation and a resident might be able to request HUD intervention.

I would think that the driveways would serve the same as reserved parking.

Overflow parking is simply that, overflow parking and available on a first come first served basis. You might want to run that by your attorney to see if my thinking would be in compliance.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 09/10/2013 10:41 PM
Thanks Tim. We have a different situation than you do since we have driveways with overflow parking in a common area.

Do check out Fair Housing Law, however. The example from its site seems to support your belief about "reserved" spaces but there still seems to be a burden on the HOA to offer accommodation and a resident might be able to request HUD intervention.

"Requires housing providers to make reasonable accommodations for persons with disabilities. A reasonable accommodation is a change in rules, policies, practices, or services so that a person with a disability will have an equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling unit or common space. A housing provider should do everything s/he can to assist, but s/he is not required to make changes that would fundamentally alter the program or create an undue financial and administrative burden. Reasonable accommodations may be necessary at all stages of the housing process, including application, tenancy, or to prevent eviction.

Example: A housing provider would make a reasonable accommodation for a tenant with mobility impairment by fulfilling the tenant's request for a reserved parking space in front of the entrance to their unit, even though all parking is unreserved." -http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/disabilities/inhousing

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/disabilities/fhefhasp

My initial reaction is an HOA is not a Housing Provider thus what you posted is more applicable to renting.

I would also say as each unit/home does have their own driveway parking, that the HOA would not have to concern itself with handicap parking.

Not trying to sound unconcerned, but where does concern end?
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
The townhomes are 3 and 4 bedroom with a one car driveway, so the residents (whether renting or owning) need the use of generally one to three open spaces.

With your argument, a home with two disabled individuals would only have a space (driveway) that was close enough and wide enough for one person to come and go freely. It seems as if an accommodation would be required if parking is available close to the residents home and they need it for disability access.

I'm not sure of the legal definition of a housing provider, but any community that offers housing to a community for purchase or rental (many HOAs have a % rented -- mine is about 30-40%); it is a housing provider to that community. How can an entity exist to serve a community and then argue that it is inconvenient for all types of residents to live and enjoy the property?

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'm also in a townhouse community with limited parking. We don't have specific spots designated for the disabled, but I recall we had one homeowner who requested another space because he had a modified van. We were able to designate the space, but the homeowner had to pay to have a sign posted there and when he moved away, the sign was removed and the space reassigned.

I don't know how we'll handle multiple requests, but it may be an issue sooner rather than later because we have a number of older homeowners in the community. Our parking lots weren't designed very well to begin with - like most developers, our was more interested in staking as many homes as possible on the property than making sure there was ample parking. We would probably have to redesign the area to have designated parking and then there would like be a fight over who gets them, keeping up with passes and whatnot, so I suppose we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'm also in a townhouse community with limited parking. We don't have specific spots designated for the disabled, but I recall we had one homeowner who requested another space because he had a modified van. We were able to designate the space, but the homeowner had to pay to have a sign posted there and when he moved away, the sign was removed and the space reassigned.

I don't know how we'll handle multiple requests, but it may be an issue sooner rather than later because we have a number of older homeowners in the community. Our parking lots weren't designed very well to begin with - like most developers, our was more interested in staking as many homes as possible on the property than making sure there was ample parking. We would probably have to redesign the area to have designated parking and then there would like be a fight over who gets them, keeping up with passes and whatnot, so I suppose we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'm also in a townhouse community with limited parking. We don't have specific spots designated for the disabled, but I recall we had one homeowner who requested another space because he had a modified van. We were able to designate the space, but the homeowner had to pay to have a sign posted there and when he moved away, the sign was removed and the space reassigned.

I don't know how we'll handle multiple requests, but it may be an issue sooner rather than later because we have a number of older homeowners in the community. Our parking lots weren't designed very well to begin with - like most developers, our was more interested in staking as many homes as possible on the property than making sure there was ample parking. We would probably have to redesign the area to have designated parking and then there would like be a fight over who gets them, keeping up with passes and whatnot, so I suppose we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Eeek! sorry for the triple posting

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Eeek! sorry for the triple posting

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Eeek! sorry for the triple posting

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Eeek! sorry for the triple posting

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
And the quadruple posting - I'm all butterfingers today

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Tim - As you know, we live in a townhome community (fee simple ownership-Single Fam Attached).(Garage and non-garage) One the homeowners (who has their own garage and driveway) requested that we make one of the visitor spaces a Handicap space. Reasonable accomodation or fair housing might apply if it was an apartment/rental community or condominium, but here the attorney said that there is no requirement and the homeowner's garage and driveway were the best accomodation... so to speak.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
That's interesting. I wonder if the homeowner could file a claim with HUD for that? Is the community's position that there is no reason to accommodate disabled guests? What is the argument?

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 09/12/2013 2:29 PM
That's interesting. I wonder if the homeowner could file a claim with HUD for that? Is the community's position that there is no reason to accommodate disabled guests? What is the argument?

Karen,

The argument is that reasonable accommodation has already been made (with the driveways).

If the owner has two vehicles and all the accommodating spaces have been taken, just as can happen at any store, the individual needs to make the best use with what is available.

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Is that HUD's position? I would double check any confidences with regard to discrimination. The accommodation would be for guests or secondary residents.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 09/13/2013 2:26 PM
Is that HUD's position? I would double check any confidences with regard to discrimination. The accommodation would be for guests or secondary residents.

As Mike and I stated, we asked our Attorney's and not HUD directly.

Feel free to ask HUD about your issue and let us know what their response is.

One thing you may need to ask yourself, if one household has 5 vehicles, all with handicapped tags, does that mean that the Association needs to make reasonable accommodations and mark the overflow parking's choice spaces as handicapped to accommodate those other vehicles (even if it takes parking away from the members who only have two vehicles and no handicap plates)?

Now, what if you had 10 members who had handicap plates and enough vehicles to fill the overflow parking. Should those 10 members have exclusive rights to all the spaces? Once the Board makes accommodations for one member, they have to make those same accommodations for all members meeting that same criteria.

The question becomes is reasonable accommodation making as many handicap parking spaces as there are vehicles with handicapped tags in the development or Is reasonable accommodation making sure that all owners have exclusive use to the same number of spaces as close to the home as possible?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making accommodations. However, they need to be "reasonable" (which is always opened to interpretation) and as fair as possible to all members.

DavidB35 (Texas)
Posts: 19
Posted:
I had to deal with tbis problem 3 years ago. I got involved with ADA (Aid to Disability Association).
It states that for an apartment/condos that there must be a minimum of 4 Handicapped spots for every 200 units. If there are more than 4 disabled persons then there must be enough Handicapped spaces for everyone.
Our Texas ADA is VERY active and helpful.
Thank you.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
David,

Was this in addition to assigned parking or instead of assigned parking?
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
David,

I also have a question.

You wrote “apartment/condo”. Since there is a considerable difference between multi-unit Apartments and multi-unit Condominium Buildings, can you provide any further details?

I am specifically interested in how, what you found out, applies to Condominiums.

Thank you.
DavidB35 (Texas)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Sorry but I had no idea you asked a question of me. (I do not see a box to check to be notified...there is nothing in my email)
Anyway, I went to Texas Chapter of American Disability Acts. Here in Tx it is located in Austin.
Many of our condos are owned and rented. They ARE condos but landlords/tenants treat them as 'apartments', something that I would never recommend but we can do nothing about it our lawyer says without 100% of owners voting to halt any more sales for rental s. Not a chance!
Also, the handicapped space was in addition to the assigned space because we could make the handicapped space much closer.
DavidB35 (Texas)
Posts: 19
Posted:
I now see the 'email me if someone responds to this post' at the top of the page. I usually see it at each post at end of post in other forums....
JH3 (Maryland)
Posts: 67
Posted:
The ADA very specifically outlines parking space requirements as it relates to HOAs/Condos.

It tells you the count of spaces is based on the count of units.
It tells you the width of the spaces, walkways required, how many, where, etc.

However, the ADA's favorite phrase is "if such thing does not cause undue burden." In other words, which we are all more commonly used to, it must be "within reason" and/or "reasonable." Its very subjective and vague.
JeffreyB2 (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I noticed in several prior posts the HOA designated spaces to specific units. We tried to do that in our HOA. 1 per unit and there would be many additional nondesignated spaces still available. A resident said we could not designated the spaces as that would be giving communal property to a specific owner. Our Lawyer agreed. So no designated spaces because of 1 resident. How did others get around this or did you not ask when designating the spaces?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffreyB2 on 09/21/2013 6:46 AM

How did others get around this or did you not ask when designating the spaces?

We initially amended our Bylaws. Then when the CC&Rs were rewritten, we (with membership vote) amended the CC&Rs with the same language and removed that language from the bylaws.

Here is the language (under the heading of Property Rights):

Section 3. Parking Rights: Ownership of each Lot shall entitle the owner or owners thereof to the use of automobile parking spaces (not to exceed two per Lot) as designated by the Association. These parking spaces shall be as near and convenient to said Lot as reasonable, together with the right of ingress and egress in and upon said parking areas. Furthermore, the Association shall designate those areas within the subdivision as no parking zones, which could hamper access to and from the subdivision and endanger public safety. The Board will have the powers to remove illegally parked vehicles form the subdivision at the owners’ expense after a reasonable attempt to notify the owner that the vehicle is illegally parked.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> However, the ADA's favorite phrase is "if such thing does not cause undue burden." In other words, which we are all more commonly used to, it must be "within reason" and/or "reasonable." Its very subjective and vague.

Yes, "reasonable" is subjective and vague. But the best way to deal with it is for the board to have a discussion, to note the discussion in the minutes, and briefly outline the rationale for concluding something is reasonable or not. For example: the board concluded that it was not reasonable to make a parking space wider because it would require movement of a concrete column.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 09/21/2013 11:37 AM
> However, the ADA's favorite phrase is "if such thing does not cause undue burden." In other words, which we are all more commonly used to, it must be "within reason" and/or "reasonable." Its very subjective and vague.

Yes, "reasonable" is subjective and vague. But the best way to deal with it is for the board to have a discussion, to note the discussion in the minutes, and briefly outline the rationale for concluding something is reasonable or not. For example: the board concluded that it was not reasonable to make a parking space wider because it would require movement of a concrete column.

The BOD met and discussed if there was a need for designated handicap parking spaces. The BOD decided that since each home has at least a one car driveway for parking, that handicap designated spaces were not required and would be an undue burden to provide such.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here