💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Our CC&R's state no permission is needed to repaint the same colors. The board created a new paint palate after mediation for a paint job that was out of compliance last year. An amendment to the CC&R's was NOT filed or recorded (I am a new owner and have the current documents. No amendments since 1996). The board has told owners they cannot repaint the same color, only the new colors. My house has been the same color for 30 yrs but it is not in the new palate. I initially turned in an arch. variance to comply with their request, but re-read the covenants and want to keep my house the same color. Can the board enforce a non-recorded change like this?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Can they - yes. Will they prevail - that's the $64,000 question. If the paint has been on your house for 30 years, I doubt it is the same color it started out, the sun tends to fade paint over time. How different is the new color palate from what you have? Are we talking about different shades of the same color or a radical change say from blues & greys to browns & reds?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Tj,

Probably not. But it can cost you a bundle to find out.

The board should have sought approval from the owners if they wished to amend the covenants. It sounds like they did not. While the board may have acted in response to mediation with a single owner, such mediation is not normally binding on other owners who were not served with notice of the complaint and who were given no opportunity to present a case for or against the relief sought. Due process requires a notice and an opportunity to respond before action is taken.

TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
The same color has been on the house for 30 yrs. It's repainted every 7 yrs. My house is a soft green - new colors; grey, tan, blue. I have expressed my views. Most members are new this year and agree that the prior board was wrong but, wait for it...still want to enforse the "rule change" & say I'd be causing trouble since they made others change their colors. How can they enforce a rule that directly conflicts with the CCR's? Will it matter that other members didn't read the covenant & complied?
TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Hi Matt, Civil code in Ca says an amendment must be recorded in the county to Override the existing CCR's. This was not done. They did send a letter that said basically " here are the new colors unless you're keeping the same scheme". That's the one I got at purchase. Then, they sent a second letter without the "unless you're keeping same..." phrase.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
TJ as I said there is no guarantee either party will prevail but they can cost you time and money arguing it out. You are 100% correct in my nonlegal opinion, you cannot write a rule to change a Covenant. I would notify the ARC & the BOD that you filed the application for a variance in error and that you intend to follow the Covenant on file with the county that allows you to re-paint without approval, and cite the Covenant specifically. Painting will begin on, unless the ARC or the BOD has proof that this Covenant has been rescinded by a valid homeowner vote and filed with the county.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you, that's great advice about the application error notification. I checked with the county & no change to the covenant was filed. I like our mngmt rep. & feel bad I'm putting her in a bad spot - but it's also more expensive to change a color on a house. Do you think owners who were made to change their color have any recourse with the Bod?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
IMHO the only recourse they are due is that the next time they paint, they can change back to the original color if they want.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
TJ, lets back up a moment. When you say it's in the CC&R's, where specifically is it in the CC&R's. If it is a Covenant or Deed restriction then you are 100% correct, the BOD can't change that by a rule. But if it is anywhere else then yes they possibly do have the power to change it. The devil is in the details. For instance if it was a rule that you didn't need approval if you were re-painting the same color then that is well within the Board's power to change. It would not need to be filed with the county only disseminated to the homeowners.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
It's definitely in the CCR's, Article 6.2, C - Exterior Surfaces... It's also repeated in the policies & rules. Maybe that's where they are confused?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
TJ, Can you provide the language of that covenant?
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
TjJ:
This might be more benign than you think. My townhouses rules specify colors which are no longer offered by the company and we started having a lot of variation in color as homeowners tried to match the colors on their own. So the association now species modern colors that are available.

So my question is, is the 30 year old paint color still available?
Jeanne
TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
The covenant states: "Board approval required for alterations of external surfaces...other than replacement with same colors or textures." There are no specific paint colors or brands listed. Owner have typically "paint matched" if records don't exist or the formula has changed. In fact, one of the newly enforced colors was the same name of a prior approved color but the formula changed & it is a bright royal blue now- the homeowner used it as directed, does not like it, the board does not like it either. The board is in process of updating the CCR's and wants to broaden the palate considerably, including my color and they also want to remove the "other than replacement with same" clause. This I know, because I am on the paint committee. At this point, it seems more about protecting a board error than compliance with existing covenant to block me from using the same color.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We had to change our colors because the paint industry about every 7 years or so changes their color formulas. So the paint colors originally planned for no longer exist or have to be customized. So we had to updated the color scheme to reflect the current availability of paint schemes. It is still in the "old shipping town of New England" color pallet. It's not like we changed them to "Miami downtown".

This is why a HOA needs to update their documents. Things like paint, construction, green energy, and technology changes. Satellites were banned because the disc were as big as a house. Now they fit on a tiny corner of your home. Without updating the documents, it makes people believe that satellite dishes are banned. They were banned because of their size almost 20 years ago. Not the case anymore and laws even allow one to install satellite dishes in HOA's/Condos.

Your paint scenario is more of an ACC change than a CC&R's change. The board can decide to adopt a new color scheme if voted on. We even started allowing to have vinyl siding made available. Although vinyl siding has it's own acceptable color schemes as well that have to be close to the existing paint schemes. Our Masonite siding homes were part of a lawsuit about Masonite and thus the vinyl option has been allowed.

So yes your HOA board or ACC can change your paint schemes. Mostly due to the fact that paint manufacturers don't keep the same formula and can be difficult to even have a copy of the original formulas on hand. Sounds like your HOA has discovered this and is now trying to just update to make it easier on everyone to purchase paint now and in the future.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TjJ on 09/05/2013 7:55 AM
The covenant states: "Board approval required for alterations of external surfaces...other than replacement with same colors or textures."

That language doesn't prevent using new colors.
That language also doesn't prevent using existing (already approved) colors.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/05/2013 9:07 AM

We had to change our colors because the paint industry about every 7 years or so changes their color formulas.

Although it's true that the paint manufactures will stop producing one color or retire a series of colors, if the manufacture is still in business, they can still produce that color for you in one of their stores (providing you know what the exact name, series and/or manufacturer number of the paint is).

Our Association goes through this all the time. We do approve new colors. However, even with being 30 years old, the manufacture's paint stores have always been able to reproduce the original color when asked.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes they can reproduce. We had a color called "Sawyers fence" for the trim. It is an off white. they no longer make it. However, no one remembered to save that information on the mixture ratio. The paint matching is not always accurate and depends on the type/brand of paint one buys. We tried to make it BEHR but not everyone can afford that. So the color may be slightly off but still an off white. Which general rule is NO white paint.

It is hard to match up paint samples. Plus the color changes a bit after sun fading. One color was right in the formula but when applied fresh turned out bright purple instead of plum... It looks great plum but it takes about 6 months to a year to fade out to it. In the mean time everyone is complaining about it...

Paint approval was not my favorite aspect of my job. Know more about it than I care... Had to add onto ALL of this dealing with a crooked ex president who created his own painting company ripping off residents did not help any. He was on the committee to pick the colors and had the color swatches in his possession... He would STILL paint the houses the wrong colors!!! Plus used a sprayer that often got everywhere... No paint is not a favorite subject of mine... I have vinyl siding... Let us not go there with those SEPARATE approved color scheme for that...

Former HOA President
TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Follow-up question: the same language that allows repainting homes the existing color is also in our Rulles & Regulations. I know the board can change a rule if it complies with the Covenants but our rules are also filed with the county. So, when the board changes a rule, does it also have to be filed with the county or is a letter notifying owners sufficient to update the rules?
Thank you, you've been a great help!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/05/2013 1:41 PM
Posted By TjJ on 09/05/2013 7:55 AM
The covenant states: "Board approval required for alterations of external surfaces...other than replacement with same colors or textures."


That language doesn't prevent using new colors.
That language also doesn't prevent using existing (already approved) colors.


This is also my view of the situation.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I'm not an attorney but I would say that any rule change would have to be filed with the county, until then the rule on file would be valid. They would also have to mail it to each homeowner, I believe following the D-S statutes. There is usually language in the CC&R's that if a rule or a bylaw conflicts with a Covenant, the Covenant is the ruling article. You also have the power to veto rules in CA if done in a timely manor.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
This is very typical mistake BOD's make. They try to override/modify Covenants via Rules and Regulations. They cannot do such.

In this case, I say they can add some new colors via R&R's but the original Covenant defined ones stay in effect until the Covenants are changed.

TjJ (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you. Yes, that's been my point all along. Rules cannot conflict with Covenants. Our Covenants don't include specific colors, the board specifies any changes to color palate in the rules. However, the CC&R's and Bylaws AND the rules say the homeowner does not require permission to repaint the existing color. I joined the board a few months ago to try and fix this misunderstanding because many owners had been forced to change their propr approaved colors but to deaf ears and a lot of "but we've already been doing it this way..." Even when the error was pointed out.

Now, the other board members have agreed in a flurry of emails, that did not include me, that they want to bring me to a compliance hearing - our property manager called to tell me she this but she had not sent me the letter yet, I told her to wait until they received my letter citing D-S, Ca civil code, our CCR's & current Rules which all show they do not have authority to make an owner change the existing color on their house (if it was a prior board approved color as mine was). Oh, and I also resigned from the board but will be very active in notifying members of any further "rogue" activity by the board. Again, I believe they thought they were right, but once the error was pointed out, they should have stopped the practice.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 09/08/2013 8:53 PM
I'm not an attorney but I would say that any rule change would have to be filed with the county, until then the rule on file would be valid.

Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/09/2013 6:31 AM
This is very typical mistake BOD's make. They try to override/modify Covenants via Rules and Regulations. They cannot do such.

Based on the citation provided by TJ, I don't think the Board was attempting to change a covenant. They were simply adopting architectural guidelines and misinterpreting the existing covenant.

As we know, amendments to the covenants are required to be filed with the county. As we also know, resolutions of the Board do not.

The CC&Rs said that prior approval is needed to make exterior changes. The Board made a decision that requests for exterior paint changes will only be approved if they are specific colors. This they formalized in a resolution and is something many Boards have done.

The Board is misinterpreting (or simply not reading) that a member may repaint with the existing color without Board approval.

TJ - you should simply point this out to the Board and ask that they clarify it with their attorney prior to taking any action against you for simply complying with the covenants.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here