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ThomasM9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I have lived in my home for over 17 years. The lot borders on a pond. There is a gap between my survey line and the actual waterline and the `grey' area is about 635 sq. ft. Neither the original HOA nor the current HOA (we merged in 2008) has ever maintained the grey area. The sum total of their maintenance consisted of pond maintenance contractor who maintains water quality and kills algae, etc.

In early 1997 I built a walkway in part of that area for personal safety since I and a neighbor on separate occasions slipped and fell to the ponds edge. I did not contact the original HOA since it was my belief that the land was mine. In 2007, I did submit a request to place rip rap along the shore line since there was erosion due to muskrat dens and wave action. I did get approval, with no mention of their claim on the `grey' area.

The plot plan that establishes the boundary of the pond has a note:
Waterline of existing pond generally along lot lines except as shown.

All references in the original covenants to the common property refers to the pond. (A pond is a body water)

Also I am currently seeking a petition and have been since March for a special meeting. The Board has been less than cooperative and in some ways quite hostile. I was the President of the Board until I resigned over some proposed projects.

I have now been sent a violation letter for common area encroachment for my walkway with a directive to remove the walkway.

Could use some independent advice.

Thank you,
Tom Morris
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Yep, it appears that for some reason you caused the board to take notice of what you have done and they now know that the walkway is on common area.

My suggestion, explain that the walkway was installed for safety. That you thought the property was yours but now know it isn't. Tell them that you are certainly willing to remove the walkway in order to be in compliance but you would like to know what they will be doing to address the safety issue. Then simply ask that, since the walkway has been there for x time, if they would be willing to consider permission for you to leave the walkway.

Another option is to offer to purchase that small strip of land.

As for the exact boundaries of your property, you may want to pay for a survey.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
How far from the water's edge is your property survey line?

My take is that the survey line may be the legal edge of your property, and that even if your property was intended to be to the edge of the water-line, such a curved line would likely not be specified on the plot for the sake of simplicity. A narrow band as such that could reasonably be interpreted as having been intended to be part of the adjacent unit.

I have a similar situation with straight survey lines along a curved edge. I border a cul-de-sac. It's curved, my lot lines are straight. I have no reasonable expectation that the wedges & trapezoids between my legal boundary and the edge of the pavement are anything other than mine. The cul-de-sac is a private HOA-owned road, btw, so not unlike a pond.

My personal, non-legal opinion.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
How exactly do the original covenants refer to the pond? Would they suggest that the pond alone is intended to be common area and the adjacent property not?
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:

I have now been sent a violation letter for common area encroachment for my walkway with a directive to remove the walkway.


Simply ask the HOA why it wants you to remove the walkway? Maybe they have a different survey than you. The key is to keep talking and figure this out.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
it is NOT a pond or lake

it IS an engineered storm water retention UTILITY

as such the 'basin' was calculated and built to very specific dimensions / water holding capacity before allowing spillage over the engineered weir assemply (outflow device)

if one person modifies the 'edge' to prevent erosion the erosion on adjacent ares probably will be increased, not to mention any change in retention capacity

yes, the HOA really IS required to maintain its common ground INCLUDING the prevention of any modification to the REQUIRED and ENGINEERED retention utilities

these retention utilities are the reason most modern (post 1972) HOAs exist

sorry for these pesky things called .... um um .... FACTS

CAVEAT EMPTOR


ThomasM9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 9
Posted:
thank you, but the pond was built in 1955 by the farmer who owned the land. it was not engineered.
ThomasM9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 9
Posted:
The covenants refer to the `pond' as the common area.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 08/30/2013 12:14 PM
it is NOT a pond or lake

it IS an engineered storm water retention UTILITY


And what knowledge do the you possess that the rest of us are unable to see?
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasM9 on 08/30/2013 12:39 PM
The covenants refer to the `pond' as the common area.

What is the exact wording of the documents?

Maybe the farmer was a visionary
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
the farmer may have dug the pond, but, if the subdivision was built after 1977, the ammended clean water act REQUIRED storm water utilities ~ perhaps the existing pond was acceptable or was modified to comply ??!!

in any event - stop building things on property you do not own
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 08/30/2013 5:28 PM
the farmer may have dug the pond, but, if the subdivision was built after 1977, the ammended clean water act REQUIRED storm water utilities ~ perhaps the existing pond was acceptable or was modified to comply ??!!

in any event - stop building things on property you do not own

As harsh as this reply sounds, I think you did build on property you do not own. I suggest you correct it without assuming/justifying that you are right. Make nice.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
I'm not buying it without further info.

If the pond is round and the documents explicitly state that the pond (not the adjacent land or anything outside of the water) is common property, and the border of the pond is plotted with straight lines between markers, I'll argue that the intended ownership per the documents is that the pond is common and the adjacent property belongs to the unit.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
There is a survey that shows the boundaries. It should be pretty simple to figure who's land he built on. Regardless of who has maintained it or not, who owns the "gray area" that you built on?
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Ok, suppose you were laying out a subdivision with an HOA and you wanted to include ONLY the normal surface area of the pond as common area and the adjacent land as owned by the units. Let's assume the pond is potato-shaped with no straight sides.

How would you lay out they physical markers that identify the boundaries of the adjacent units? Straight lines between markers, curved shoreline of the pond. How do you do that to the stated intent above?

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