property mgr. making major decisions without authority from the trustees

Started by LynneM • 10 replies • 1514 views

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LynneM (Massachusetts)
Posts: 52

Posted:

Our property manager has made a major decision and acted on it without permission and without board knowledge this is not the first time but the first at this degree. He was told to stop on two occasions he has refused. The property manager has a very good relationship with our property attorney as the attorney is the attorney for all of the PM's properties (40). As a trustee board I think it's time for legal intervention. Should we seek advice from another attorney or should we contact our property attorney(who is very good and well respected in the legal arena in condo law).We the board have had discussions on replacing the PM but we think it unwise to do it on a whim. What I am asking is should we consult our own attorney or another attorney familiar with condo law. We the trustees are willing to pay out of pocket for consultation.

MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LynneM on 08/28/2013 8:05 AM

The property manager has a very good relationship with our property attorney as the attorney is the attorney for all of the PM's properties (40).

This is not a good situation for you at all. If the attorney advises taking an action favorable to you but adverse to the property manager, the attorney stands to lose 40 clients. You can be certain that the attorney will not risk losing that many clients. This, by the way, is a fairly blatant conflict of interest and once you became aware that there was some connection between your attorney and the property manager you should have terminated your contract with at least one and probably with both.

Quote:

Posted By LynneM on 08/28/2013 8:05 AM

Should we seek advice from another attorney or should we contact our property attorney(who is very good and well respected in the legal arena in condo law).

You have already established that your attorney is a scoundrel in cahoots with your management company. What more does it take to get your association off its butt and find an attorney without a built-in conflict of interest? You should immediately terminate your relationship with your present attorney and find someone else.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

What I am asking is should we consult our own attorney or another attorney familiar with condo law. We the trustees are willing to pay out of pocket for consultation.

Unless you're going to go after the property manager for damages, a long process, why bother? Simply find a new property manager and attorney and fire them both.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

The property manager takes direction from the board. The lawyer provides legal advice to the board to advance the interests of the association. If either or both are not doing their job they need to be replaced.

You should not need a lawyer to replace them; at most you might need a lawyer to write a careful letter of termination (and to act scary).

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Please explain "major decision."

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Lynne

If you are under Declarant control, the Declarant picks the PM and the PM works for him. Only the Declarant can replace the PM

If you are under owner control, the BOD picks the PM and the PM works for them. The BOD could replace the PM.

Often the BOD is quite happy having the PM take an active/adversarial role while they sit back.

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

You may have an option to file a complaint with the state Department of Business and Professional Regulation which offers community association manager licenses. The manager does have accountability to operate ethically and within the laws of the state. You could also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and/or your state's Bar Association if you feel it meets that level.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KarenC15 on 08/28/2013 1:42 PM
You may have an option to file a complaint with the state Department of Business and Professional Regulation which offers community association manager licenses. The manager does have accountability to operate ethically and within the laws of the state. You could also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and/or your state's Bar Association if you feel it meets that level.

Karen

9 of 50 states require some type of licensing/certification for association management thus 41 of 50 see no need for it. FL is one of the nine.

FL and CA have far more laws/regulations on associations yet you ask for more. I do not believe you are aware of what and how much there is in FL. I suggest you become familiar with what there is in FL before asking for more.

The OP is in MA which does even require a license for handling rental property. Only one of about 6 or so that do not require such.

When 41 out of 50 do not require licensing for something, might we assume it is probably not needed?

When only 6 out of 50 do not require licensing for something, might we assume it is probably needed?

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

Hi John,

FL has a lot but really no enforcement. In my opinion, other states need more protections for people in HOA situations and I suspect we'll see that happen in time.

Since we're on electronic speak I can't tell if you are being facetious or angry when you suggest I don't ask more questions. In any case, I'm confused now because talking about these issues and sharing experience is much more helpful than just reading a list of statutes (which I have). Are you the board moderator asking me not to post or are you a poster who doesn't like my questions? I'm not sure.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Karen

I am not a board moderator. I have no more authority out here then you do.

I was saying several things.

1. What the laws/regulations/controls are in one state is not always the same in another state. Thus advice to contact the "authorities" in ones state is not solid information as the "authorities" may not exist in that state. As per the OP. MA has no state authorities/boards/regulations, etc. for a property manager of an owners association. Thus advising one to contact such could well send them on an unfruitful trip.

One prolific poster on this site has this issue. Quoting local laws/experience that are not relevant/applicable in other states.

2. Many of us believe that FL and CA are so overly regulated that they often trip over their own shoe laces trying to help, thus they cause more harm then good. .

3. Being overly regulated often makes it easy for people to not understand and/or offer bad advice based on their state laws.

In SC, Davis-Sterling (CA) can go have sex with each other as far as we are concerned. Our only interest might be who is on top.

4. Some people can argue that the STOP sign does not apply to them and make an eloquent case for running it.

Even more basic is we have had long discussions on the difference between simple words like MAY versus MUST. Often ones reads/interprets it the way one wants to support their argument regardless of the difference.

5. Many of us believe that trusting an association's fate to politicians and bureaucrats is a really, really big mistake. Most of them are far, far from the sharpest knives in the draw....LOL

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MatthewW4 on 08/28/2013 8:39 AM

This is not a good situation for you at all. If the attorney advises taking an action favorable to you but adverse to the property manager, the attorney stands to lose 40 clients. You can be certain that the attorney will not risk losing that many clients. This, by the way, is a fairly blatant conflict of interest and once you became aware that there was some connection between your attorney and the property manager you should have terminated your contract with at least one and probably with both.

The thread should end here!
Immediately bail out on one of, and preferably BOTH the property manager and attorney.
If I learned of this in my HOA, I would immediately be in touch with the rest of my board, seeking a meeting ASAP for the sole purpose of voting on 2 motions: one to immediately fire the attorney, one to fire the PM

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