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KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Our HOA had a policy of asking new people on the board to "prove" they were on the deed. A year and a half ago, one of the legacy members asked someone who lives in the neighborhood to be "president," which is what is commonly done here. That person gets all the proxies by default and then installs themselves and the board they choose who will not disagree with any positions. In any case, the person is a live-in partner and not on the deed. Rather than add the name to the deed, the person immediately took over the checkbook and complete control of our property management and hired lawyers to write new bylaws saying any resident who claims domestic partnership or familiar relationship can be a voting director of our association. The bylaws were not put on any agenda and were signed by three people. The president is claiming this is correct because he asked the presidents of the other associations on the property to agree to the bylaws for the Master association; thus, no member notice, input or vote. Now, anyone who lives here for two weeks can be a voting board member, manage all association funds and contracts. Don't bylaws need a membership vote?

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The way to amend any of the Association's governing documents will be within the document itself. What does the Bylaws say about amending them?
FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276
Posted:
Karen,

Based on the number of threads you have initiated, it appears there are numerous concerns with your HOA. Tim's advice is solid IMO, you need the support of others. Do you have that yet? If not, start building that support or reconsider if this heart burn will be worth it. Good luck.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
There were no original bylaws. Just articles of incorporation that were created before development was complete. In fact, the common property was just titled to us a year ago after taking possession in 2001. Because there were no bylaws, the board has always just done what it wants and the property manager has encouraged that. We have had elections by torn pieces of paper during an annual meeting, where members and nonmembers were voting.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
There should be some CC&R's on file at the courthouse. Those go with the deed and are stronger than by-laws. They are considered PUBLIC documents and can get a copy at your local Records department at the COUNTY courthouse.

Former HOA President
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Thank you. Most people want nothing to do with the board or the people who are on it. Others are not certain what it is and if they have a right to participate. It's a big stretch here because the board has operated in private and with the same people for so long it is like a "gang." The same property manager has been there as well and he is like an instigator. Changing a culture that is corrupt takes a lot of work and time - I realize. However, when I have done small things like hand out flyers about the office of Human Rights, the board members become irate and say I have no right. Any disagreement in meeting is seen as a person assault and starts a fight with board members.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
It's a master association and there was nothing but an old "articles of incorporation." I requested docs and did not get them because the property manager said "he didn't have them," although he has been the PM here since the beginning. I argued this with the state and they replied that he cannot be responsible if the board does not keep records (ie claiming the records were lost or not provided to him).

My association has covenants and those clearly outline rights. It also outlines that a member of the association is defined by the deed. I don't know if it says one must be a member to be on the board, but I'm pretty sure it does. I loaned mine out a while ago and haven't gotten them back yet. I have been trying to put all this behind me but the outrageous behavior of the board keeps escalating.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sorry but the PM is right. They are NOT responsible for giving you the docs. It is yours, sometimes previous buyer, or a COURTESY of the HOA to do it.

Former HOA President
LoriL1 (Florida)
Posts: 78
Posted:
In Florida, it is not a "courtesy" to provide certain documents, but a requirement in accordance with FL Statute 720.303(4) Official Records; and 720.303(5)Inspection & Copying of Records.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Yes, I have looked at that statute but the PM claims he doesn't have records, including the minutes past about two years ago. I can get the covenants but the Master association does not follow them. It's all so confusing. The PM provides no guidance. When I was on the board, he would always just say that we could do whatever we want and I don't believe that's true. That's why I'm no longer a part of that group.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
I think when you say, Docs, you mean the covenants, right? We can't even get meeting notices and minutes.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 08/28/2013 7:21 AM

Because there were no bylaws, the board has always just done what it wants and the property manager has encouraged that.

With or without Bylaws, as a corporation, the Association must also comply with the applicable Corporate laws (typically the Florida Not For Profit Corporation Act). Organizational procedures are usually addressed within Corporate laws.

Per 617.0206 of that act, the initial set of Bylaws are adopted by the Board of Directors. The power to alter, amend, or repeal the bylaws or adopt new bylaws shall be vested in the board of directors unless otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws.

NOTE: The Bylaws may not be in conflict with the Articles of Incorporation or the CC&Rs.
AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 08/28/2013 7:29 AM
It's a master association and there was nothing but an old "articles of incorporation." I requested docs and did not get them because the property manager said "he didn't have them," although he has been the PM here since the beginning. I argued this with the state and they replied that he cannot be responsible if the board does not keep records (ie claiming the records were lost or not provided to him).

My association has covenants and those clearly outline rights. It also outlines that a member of the association is defined by the deed. I don't know if it says one must be a member to be on the board, but I'm pretty sure it does. I loaned mine out a while ago and haven't gotten them back yet. I have been trying to put all this behind me but the outrageous behavior of the board keeps escalating.

Hang on, if there is a master association then there should be sub-associations. The subs often have a rule that states only the homeowner can be on the board, and only a member of the board can be on the master board. Is this a master/sub-association situation you have going on?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/28/2013 8:16 AM
Sorry but the PM is right. They are NOT responsible for giving you the docs. It is yours, sometimes previous buyer, or a COURTESY of the HOA to do it.

Melissa,

This is not an issue of a new buyer asking for info. It's an issue of a member asking for copy of records.

Once a member submits a request for the documents, it is typically the PM's responsibility to fulfill that request to the best of their ability.

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