Document requests... What can we charge to cover costs?

Today we had a lady come into the office to request documents. Not one or two. We are talking everything. Basically all financial records over the past 3 years. From every single bank statement, credit card statement, copy of checks, deposit slips, aged receivable report, etc. Basically she wants a copy of the entire office concerning anything financial.

It is my understanding we have to give it to her all records per Washington State Law.

However there are two problems with her request.

1. Some of the documents requested like the credit card statements and bank account statements have our corporate credit card numbers and bank account numbers on them. So our temp office person will have to spend days just redacting all the sensitive account info.

2. The office temp estimates she will spend the next month doing this job due to the sheer number of records requested.

This is nothing but a fishing expedition that will cost the association thousands of dollars in just labor costs. In fact I may have to hire another temp just to perform this huge task as my current temp is now just working on upcoming litigation and delinquent accounts.

Can we bill this member for the labor? I plan to ask our attorney but he may take a week just to answer. Just thought I would get you guys and gals take.

So is it "reasonable" to actually charge the labor costs incurred by the association to fulfill this member's request of so many documents?

In addition to charging reasonable and accurate charges, the statutes you stated also state any such member must have a purpose for such request.

What is the witch hunt about? You may want to concentrate on that for your own HOA's good. The person must have something in particular they are concerned about to bring on a witch hunt. I would want to know what that is.

As for copies of the records... They have the right to INSPECT records at the office. Any copies they want made is on their dime. I would charge the same amount for copies as Staples or other office supply stores copy. The credit cards or those with personal/account information should have that information blanked out somehow. The name of company and the amount is okay but the account numbers not so much. They don't even need that information to that level.

Our accountant produced a monthly expense report and a collections report. The collection report was ONLY for Board members because it had the information about each individual account and what they paid/owed. The expense reports were open to any member and a few copies distributed at our meetings. The expense reports showed those checks and credit cards amounts on that without the account information.

The HOA should produce those monthly reports and an overall collection report without the personal information. Like this is how much collected this month. There is a fine line between privacy and the right to know. One has the right to know how much they owe but not their neighbors. Just the overall collection rate/amount.

If you have a lawyer to ask, great. If not, I would look at the rule in Washington State that was posted and go by it. Charge them the amount and make a policy at the next meeting in the meeting notes about it. The more you document the charge for inspection copies, the better your HOA is.

How large is your association?

The reason I ask how large an association you are is the ability to self manage yourselves or not. It sounds as if you are self managed. In my not so humble opinion, if you are doing everything someone could start asking questions. Not knowing whether you have monthly or yearly dues and what type of amenities your might have and whether or not you're a gated community, or single family homes on condo/townhome type, would factor into how much of a yearly budget you're dealing. Your annual income is probably somewhere between $50K to $1M, depending on your dues.

Not saying this is true in your case, but people tend to start asking more questions and demanding more documentation when they been told no. Properties of your size generally are run by a management company or an onsite general manager. Not sure that a property of your size is properly served by one board member and maybe a couple of volunteers, if, as you said, they haven't moved away.

If you are a homeowner association, I believe you would fall under Title 64.38 of the RCW.

RCW 64.38.045

Financial and other records — Property of association — Copies — Examination — Annual financial statement — Accounts.

(1) The association or its managing agent shall keep financial and other records sufficiently detailed to enable the association to fully declare to each owner the true statement of its financial status. All financial and other records of the association, including but not limited to checks, bank records, and invoices, in whatever form they are kept, are the property of the association. Each association managing agent shall turn over all original books and records to the association immediately upon termination of the management relationship with the association, or upon such other demand as is made by the board of directors. An association managing agent is entitled to keep copies of association records. All records which the managing agent has turned over to the association shall be made reasonably available for the examination and copying by the managing agent.

(2) All records of the association, including the names and addresses of owners and other occupants of the lots, shall be available for examination by all owners, holders of mortgages on the lots, and their respective authorized agents on reasonable advance notice during normal working hours at the offices of the association or its managing agent. The association shall not release the unlisted telephone number of any owner. The association may impose and collect a reasonable charge for copies and any reasonable costs incurred by the association in providing access to records.

(3) At least annually, the association shall prepare, or cause to be prepared, a financial statement of the association. The financial statements of associations with annual assessments of fifty thousand dollars or more shall be audited at least annually by an independent certified public accountant, but the audit may be waived if sixty-seven percent of the votes cast by owners, in person or by proxy, at a meeting of the association at which a quorum is present, vote each year to waive the audit.

(4) The funds of the association shall be kept in accounts in the name of the association and shall not be commingled with the funds of any other association, nor with the funds of any manager of the association or any other person responsible for the custody of such funds.

Seems like a simple math problem to me. Figure out what it costs to make a copy, how much the temp is paid per hour, etc. Then do a sample of like 100 pages, see how long that takes (pulling files, copy, putting back in order, etc.) estimate the temp's time to work on it, say 1-2 hours per day, and based on how much paperwork you have, provide an estimate of cost and timeframe to the person requesting it. Shouldn't take you more than 30 minutes to figure this all out.

PS. If someone asked me for copies of our records, I'd say sure. But bring a copy machine, I don't have one. And there is no staff, so you will have to do it yourself. You can copy between the hours of 5pm-6pm.

Just request a new credit card with a new number from your bank, and tell the bank to invalidate the old credit card.

I will redouble what most have already said...

1) request the reason, in writing... not out of spite, but because the rules say you should. After all, following the rules is the right way to run an HOA.

2) Depending on the reason given, you can determine IF it is reasonable, and if so, what the scope of the request/reason will involve (be liberal in your interpretation). It may not be reasonable to show every receipt, if the reason for the request is to "see the association budget" or something. You might be able to narrow down the scope of the record request.

3) Provide the estimate of time, scope and copy costs. Set up a time the examiner can come, and look at the records, with the stated goal that THEY can determine too, how much paper they want to pay to have copied. At 25 cents per copy, they may suddenly decide they don't want every receipt. And, although you are on the hook to stand there for hours while they do, THEY are also on the hook to stand there for hours, looking.

4) In other words, work with them, educate them, and share the potential pain/burden/cost with them. Be open, honest, transparent, follow the rules, but don't roll over. You have rights here too. Nothing wrong with letting the "whiners" have to expend a little effort.

In my experience, 99% of the people want to whine, and have YOU change/fix things. If you accept their whine, and then invite them to participate in the change, and require they work to achieve the solution, they tend to fade away and disappear for a bit, until they find another whine they can hope someone does for them.

I agree with Jeff and that is why I posted the correct part of the RCW.

Your personal belief seems to be the same as the law. The Homeowner's Association Act, as posted above by RichardP13, states:

"The association may impose and collect a reasonable charge for copies and any reasonable costs incurred by the association in providing access to records."

No requirement there for a purpose to copy.

A handheld scanner is a good idea. If the homeowner wants copies made, I would suggest you give her an estimated detailed cost and agreement to pay before starting and have her sign it; include the hourly wage of the employee charged with redacting and copying the documents and the cost of the copies (and if you dont have a copy machine, gas mileage to and from the Kinkos or whatever store you use for the copies). I would not like to see you hand her a bill after its all said and done and she refuses to pay. But it would not be fair not to warn her prior to starting the job.

Prepay is a great idea.

This isn't a standard document request. In order to meet this request to essentially make a copy of every financial related document in our office will require us to hire a temp perform the work. This is at the cost of everyone in the community.

Glen in our case the Board are all volunteers that work jobs. I am a full time student. We have no paid staff. We are not slaves and simply cannot put our lives on hold to fulfill this lady's request to spend a month of our time to make copies.

Just giving her our compiled Quickbooks reports isn't good enough for her. Also we already have an CPA coming in this month to do an official audit. And evidently having a certified CPA isn't good enough either.

This lady is basically another Amin. This is a fishing expedition that is going to cost the association several thousand of dollars in labor costs. I think she should bear all the costs and I am going to our attorney this week to see if we can legally bill her the labor costs to do all this.

Several thousand dollars of labor to copy financial documents for 3 years? That amount sounds a bit high. How are you coming up to that figure?

Three years ago when I became treasurer, I started a project to organize the files (receipts used to be stuffed in a envelopes and banded together) and digitize them. Granted we are a small Association (130 lots), but it really didn't take that long. I'd estimate 30 hrs per year. The payoff is that I can now provide our auditor (and of course any member who requests it) a copy of the digitized files. Once past years were completed, it's minimal time to digitize on an ongoing bases.

Depending on the size of the development, the number of files, the files organization and the speed of the copier, for 3 years worth of files, 100 hrs is probably a fair estimate.

I say the first shot over her bow should be:

Dear Miss So and So

As per your request, we have estimated the associations cost to provide copies of what you have requested to be approximately $2,500.00. This estimate is based on the time and material cost for our staff to provide such.

Please contact me so we can arrange payment.

Cordially yours,

Wait for a reply.

Can an HOA request your state residency and state tax form to prove it? Our condo is in a summer vacation area and I don't see the need or why they care what state that I legally reside in. I will provide them wjth my drivers license, reg and insurance.

They wanted to know my state of legal residency and if S. Carolina, I would have to register my cars and obtain a SC drivers license before I could get parking decals. They could issue me a temp parking pass until this was completed. Why do they care? She said it was the law.