fines to liens

You should always hire a lawyer to do your first lien. He will need to research your legal right to file a lien, what fees can be included, how much the lien is for, state law, local law, etc. before he does it. The HOA may have made mistakes in the paperwork. After your first lien, you can probably do it yourself.

Like anything else in life, if you don't know how to do something, you need to hire someone to do it for you.

This sounds like how to file a lien which we currently do for unpaid assessments - but my understanding is you can't directly file a "fine" toward a lien ... it has to become some form of monetary judgement first and then "certified" by the county and only then can a lien be applied??

Sorry Mike, you are correct, you cannot file a lien on fines, I misread your message. You would likely want to sue the defendant in small claims court for the fines, if you want it paid right away. I usually just let them sit, but the homeowner cannot sell his house, have an ARB form approved or rent their house until its paid in full. In small claims court, when you are awarded your judgment , you file the certified copy of the judgment with the clerk. The recording of the of the judgment creates a lien against any real estate that the defendant owns. Every 5 years you have to refile the judgment. You can also file a motion to garnish wages.

You are quite correct Bruce, however, Mike and I both live in Florida. I was answering for Florida. I am sorry I didn't make that clear. :-)

Typically fines can not be converted to liens. It does depend on your state and circumstances. Fines are work much like "speeding tickets" for the HOA. Look at how speeding tickets are handled in your city/state to get an idea of how that process works. Fines are not considered "Income". They are more along the lines of "Punitive" measures.

Now there are ways around this. EXAMPLE: If an owner has a house that needs to be painted, the HOA can paint the house and send the owner the bill. If that owner does not pay that bill, the HOA can place a lien for that amount owed. So that is not exactly a "Fine" but "damages" of which the court would likely award. A court can only make one "whole" so they would consider this money out of pocket to be what the HOA is owed out of it's pocket. (i.e. damages).

Keep in mind a LIEN is a form of a court JUDGEMENT. A Judgment is what you would get out of a lawsuit. A lawsuit judgment does NOT guarantee money. It is like a big "IOU" by the court. So the owner can simply NOT pay the judgment, sell the home, and move away without paying a dime. The judgment has to be renewed every 7 years or so. Since a HOA changes board members every 1 to 2 years... Who is going to remember a judgment is still out there to pursue?

A lien has more teeth to it than a lawsuit. The owner can not simply walk away. They have to pay the lien, legal fees, and interest before they can sell the home. It also sets them up for foreclosure if need be. Plus a lawsuit amount simply stops accumulating when filed. A lien does accumulate over time.

Considering my solid advice that suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors, a lien is a much better option. It's a collection option and not a punitive one that takes constant legal advice and care to pursue. Once filed it stays there until paid or lifted.

we are concluseivly proving Mike13's point

Another "legal tactic" I've heard of is to apply any payment first to the outstanding fine, and the remainder to the assessment, which creates a balance due on the assessment against which a lien can be filed.

I don't know if this "legal tactic" is allowed in Florida or not.

Simply a difference between salesmanship and trickery...........LOL

I do not support this at all. Too many chances for fines to be used against neighbors for trumped up or improper purposes or for just silly nonsense. Neighbors fining neighbors goes against everything I believe in. If your HOA feels it must do this, please, please, use all other means to resolve an issue before using this option.

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So if it's your neighbor that parks his rusted out truck with two flat tires in the middle of his yard, never cuts the grass or trims bushes, yard is full of weeds, paint on house is peeling, I think you'd change your tune. If someone doesn't like HOA rules ..... they should not be living in a deed restricted community in which they are contractually obligated to maintain their property. Why coddle the "trailer trash?"

This is a 2-year old thread, PaulM22.

Florida HB 667 is proposed legislation to be considered next year which would bring HOA's into the fold of condominium laws and regulations. Among other things, FS 718 says, "A fine may not become a lien against a unit."

That will be true in HOAs as well as condo associations if the legislation passes. The general wording of the proposed legislation makes the intent of the legislature clear: that liens are meant to ensure that assessments are paid. Fines are not assessments.

Bruce,

This thread is over two years old.

Since laws change it's best not to reactivate old threads as what was good advice in 2013 may be bad advice in 2016.

This is an old thread and best to start a new topic. However, did want to comment on the owner suing the HOA holding up the transaction. The seller is in a bit of a rub here. They will lose their case if they sell and will have to hold onto it till the case is settled. It's give up to sell or lose the case.

Why? Catch 22... Can't sue your HOA association if your NOT a member of it. Once they sell the property, they are no longer a member. They would have no invested interested anymore. Now if the HOA has a lien on the property for unpaid dues, then the seller would have to settle that lien. Some states (Florida) can have the actual buyer pay off the lien. So it's best to find out if the state your in can make you assume the debt upon purchase... You may want to shop around before purchasing this unit... Plus get a copy of the rules from the Records department at the county courthouse to see the rules...