Community Standards

Joanne could you give an example of a "Community Standard" that is not tied to a Covenant? You can't forbid or allow something that is allowed or forbidden in the Covenants by writing a by-law or rule to get around it.

I am curious about how your association was able to survive for 33 years without the community standard rules?

You claim (as many others do on this forum although never with any proof) that these standards are somehow tied to "property values." Are you saying that all owners in the first 33 years lost value in their property because they had no rules?

My experience has been that property values are dependent upon how much similar-sized homes in your general area have sold for in the recent past. The value of your property will be determined by the market and not by the presence or absence of rules, nor by neighboring generators or basketball hoops.

When I bought my most recent home I turned down any property in an HOA. I have enough problems to worry about without some snoopy old lady complaining that I put my garbage cans out an hour too early. So from my standpoint, as long as your home is in an HOA it is worth zero to me and a majority of home buyers because of the very rules you seem to think are so necessary. The majority of us adults do not feel the need for other adults to tell us how to live our lives.

Why do you subscribe to HOAtalk when you don't live in an HOA and dislike them so much? You obviously haven't done much research in the advantages and/or disadvantages and how your neighbors pigsty can affect your property values. There are well over 300,000 HOA's in this country and they aren't going away. When you purchase in an HOA you can expect to have rules and are expected to abide by them. If that's not for you, then you made the right choice because in an HOA you would probably be the biggest problem. We already have one so I'm glad you didn't settle here.

***** WELL SAID *****

You obviously miss the point of living in a deed restricted community. When you move in, you are given a copy of the governing documents, deed restrictions and bylaws, probably written by the developer when he created the community. There are also community rules which are developed by the board of directors; that address problem areas within the community - like people who park all over their grass thus killing the grass, people who run businesses out of the residential home like car detailing, people who just don't take care of their property. The rules are meant for them so others within the community who don't park all over their grass and keep their yards nice and don't break code enforcement rules can live in a neighborhood that's kept looking nice for them to enjoy. It isn't how you depict it. And I'm sorry but even as an adult, you still have a boss if you work and I believe that's an adult telling another adult what, when and how.

HOA talk is intended for people who live in HOA's to find out how others handle similar problems. I still don't get being responded to by people who don't live in an HOA or who hate HOA's. My response to that is - don't live in one - but stop throwing stones at those who do.

The original purpose of deed restricted communities was to keep out the undesirables. Black people, anyone whose name ended in a vowel, Catholics and Jews -- all the folks us WASP's don't want marrying our sisters. (In It's a Wonderful Life, Potter called them "garlic eaters.") All the civil rights legislation killed that off back in the 60's so now we have to go focus on the undesirables from another angle.

Take basketball hoops, for example. Black folks are good at basketball. Basketball hoops will attract black folks so if you get rid of the hoops, you may get rid of a few black people. And everyone knows Mexicans park their cars on the grass, so you can get rid of them by forbidding parking on the grass. I think I pretty well understand the point of living in a deed restricted community.


And this is where the problem starts. Instead of amending the recorded restrictions because you cannot get enough support, you (or someone with your mindset) decided to create additional deed restrictions and got a majority of the board to approve them several years ago. Your current president, who seems to understand things better than most, has wisely decided not to enforce any restrictions not in the recorded covenants.

I am curious why you have not taken on the task of enforcing these board-adopted rules. Are you afraid that if you took your case to a real judge in a real court that he/she would throw the book at you? Why do you expect others to take a risk that you yourself are not willing to accept?


Actually, I was self-employed most of my working life. I let the wage slaves live at the mercy of the man. Some people just love to be stepped on. I am not one of them.


As I previously stated, I do own property in an HOA where I have been both a board member and an officer. I do not recall when I signed up for this site being required to live in an HOA. A majority of the threads on this site deal with condo associations, which are not really HOA's. There would be little exchange of information if we all agreed with one another on every topic.

Just for the record, I am not anti-HOA. I am, however, opposed to HOA's that attempt to wield powers that were never granted to them by the owners. My HOA is not a bad model - it has a very specific mission to maintain our common roads without getting involved in trying to manage how people live. Your HOA, on the other hand, is toxic. People buy homes knowing the recorded restrictions only to find that the board on a whim may add more restrictions. It's like buying the proverbial pig in a poke.

There are a number of reasons to buy into an HOA; one is to have a sense of privacy and security, another is to maintain a community standard of beauty so property values can remain higher, still another is the attraction of the amenities the neighborhood offers and yes some, to keep undesirables out, although to me that means no drug dealers, no grow houses and no pedophiles. As president of my HOA, I assume everyone who owns here, bought in with eyes wide open. That being said, if the majority of the residents want to create more or lift some of the restrictions, you can amend your documents. But that does not mean the whole neighborhood will fall apart if that happens. I am not saying I agree with the board member's idea, but from his perspective, maybe he wants to remove the requirement from the board that they must enforce all the rules and restrictions and make people accountable to each other on their own. It would be lovely if it were a successful transfer of responsibility, but we know there will/may be problems. Remember, you have town-city-county codes that even those inside an HOA must follow. You can report to code enforcement many of the rules that appear in the rules and restrictions. I encourage you to look at your local rules to see how many are the same as those you have in your documents.

JohnC46 is right, I agree with him wholeheartedly. I would hope your homeowners feel the same and would not vote to amend your documents.

Do they want the HOA to pay for the stones or are they going to split the difference? If they do add the stone, who will keep care of the weeds that grows between them? That may be something your HOA will now have to address with weeds instead of the unmowed grass. Each action has a different reaction. So I can see the member's concern with this situation. Not everyone can do stone and then having to address weed control. If your HOA provides lawncare, then it could have to include paying for weed killer for these homes.

It's not always personal taste but most of the time it is in a HOA. A HOA is managed by it's people for it's people by which they want to live. Tastes do carry a big part of the aesthetic decisions. One may think a "motorcycle" trailor is different than a "Boat" trailer. So then those should be allowed.

I'd check with your city's codes on if they have any laws/codes for grass height. Go with what the city laws may have on their books. That would be a good guideline that the HOA can then restrict even more if they would like.

I may suggest leaving the grass area there or filling it in with concrete expanding the driveways....Decorative concrete with stone in it to make sure it's not a parking area and distinctive.

Joseph

We had a similar issue. Phase One of our HOA were duplexes. There are 40 of them. Single story homes that share an adjoining wall. In each duplex, their driveways are separated by a 3-4 foot wide strip of land about 25 feet long. The strip is planted with ground level bushes and covered with pine straw mulch.

About a year ago, two owners of one duplex asked if they could do "different" landscaping on the strip between their driveways. Our Covenants do not allow one to change the landscaping of their front nor side yards. Our HOA pays for all front and side home landscaping. We politely informed them what the covenants say.

This fits under "continuity of look" or "similar design" and for those reasons alone I would be against any changes.

As an aside. Phase Two of our HOA is all single homes. Both one and two story models. Duplexes are no longer allowed. Of 113 owners, 80 are duplex owners and 53 are single home owners (about). The 53 singles take up about 3 times the land space of the duplexes and overlook or are situated on a pond. The singles are down a hill so separated from the duplexes by about 50 yards. We are seeing a potential issue now as some of the pond owners want the pond area fancied up. I expect we might see some push back from the duplex owners. They cannot see nor do they pass by the pond (dead end, cul de sac roads) so it is not on their radar.....yet.