Trying to Decide on My Next Action

Started by ErikaB2 • 13 replies • 1473 views

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ErikaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Hello,

We have a manager who is incompetent and at least half the board wants the PM gone. I know and have documents showing the PM to brake a law of our state 720 in July this month. A new law took effect on July 1st making PMs liable for these laws.

Now, up to now I have trusted the wrong person in the board to do the right thing. But this person has commingled with the PM and wants the PM to stay, but half the board wants the PM gone.

If we vote, the vote may be a tie because we have a vacancy and the PM will be stuck with us.

What should I do if the vote goes sour? I don't want to resign because I am here to live forever, but this PM can come and go. The PM has manipulated two people on the board and the third person I think has some mental issues honestly and don't know what this person will vote.

If the vote goes sour, should I report the PM using the new law in 468.436? Or would this action be going to far?

Thanks.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

ErikaB2, what did the PM do to break the law? There are 9 ways to skin a cat (I love cats, its just a saying!!)

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

If he broke the law by all means report him to the Dept. responsible for helping you.

The law is not up for a vote by anyone!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ErikaB2 on 08/02/2013 1:42 PM

If we vote, the vote may be a tie because we have a vacancy and the PM will be stuck with us.

However, he will also be on notice that the Board is aware of the actions s/he is doing. There is also nothing that prevents that vote from being called each and every meeting of the Board. It may take time, but if you vote every time there is a violation caused by the PM, the vote may change.

If a member is on the fence and you (or others) point out that the board had concerns in the past and took a vote to remove the PM which resulted in a tie. Well, it has been x days and the PM has again violated section 720xxx by doing (not doing) xyz. I'm concerned of the liability he may place the Association in and motion that the Board votes to terminate the contract for cause. If there is a second, a vote happens and the person who was on the fence may now agree that the PM has to go.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

"If we vote, the vote may be a tie because we have a vacancy"

Why is there a vacancy? I suggest the Board fill the vacancy immediately. Maybe you can find someone that will agree with you to join the Board.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Find a new property manager (PM) before you vote out the old one.

Start interviewing now, have the new PM talk to the board to discuss how they would do things better, etc. Let the board become comfortable with this new PM before you ask them to vote out the old one and have nobody.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Good points

Fill the vacancy then begin interviewing new management companies. Some of the BOD might come around when they hear the new people.

Might it be possible to change the site manager and not the company? We did that with one management company and it worked out well.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Better yet, just fire the manager. Who is working for whom here anyway?

We fired our manager, and the place runs just fine. This is not rocket science here.

We are saving an enormous amount of money as well.!

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

If at least half the board wants the PM gone, then why not vote to remove the PM? Sounds like you have the votes to do so.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

ErikaB2, you don't have to vote to fire the PM if he/she has committed a crime or has otherwise violated the statute. If you report him/her under the statute, you can avoid a vote altogether. Get all your ducks in a row before you make the call, have documentation of the wrongdoing, saved emails, bank statements etc. The politics of an HOA can sometimes turn my stomach, I understand your trepidation. The thought of a board member who wields influence and who falls prey to the PM who is good at manipulating that board member is sickening.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I would start entertaining bids and management options. You don't have to fire the PM directly right now as you need to find out in their contract the terms of termination. How many days notice do you need to give? When does their contract normally end? What do they have to violate in order to terminate the contract? One can't simply fire someone under contract unless they violate the exact terms of that contract.

So get some bids and look at other ideas. We used just an accounting firm to handle the collections and tax filing. After that we the board handle everything else. A PM should act in a similar way with them doing what the board instructs them to do.

Do you have any other PM company's available? I'd suggest looking for 3 of them and have those bids ready for the next meeting or two.

Former HOA President

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

If you are going to stay with the same company but just use a different property manager, you should be ok. But if you are changing companies altogether, I would suggest making sure you have all your reports and financials updated, ask for reports and bank statements before the deed is done. I experienced a bad situation when I let go one company; they would not hand over anything until the 30 day notice we gave them was complete, and they did not do any work for us during the 30 days. In hindsight, I should have gone to the bank and cut them off right then and there, and gotten the bank statements directly from the bank until the new firm was up and running.

ErikaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Hi All,

Thank you so much for all the feedback. Sorry, I haven't replied earlier, I forgot to subscribe to the thread and thought no one had replied.

To answer some of the questions:

Yes, we can just change managers and stay with the same company.

Since, this post I discovered 2 more laws that were broken. I don't want to say them here in case the PM lurks these boards.

One of the board members leaked the situation to the PM, and before the other members got all the details they were convinced by "that" board member and the PM that it was me and that we should give the PM another try, although they still complain that they don't like the PM. They seem to be convinced it would be a lot of work to change managers or companies.

This PM is so manipulative that I feel that if I report to the department, the PM would manipulate its way out of it and then make a ruckus to the board about me reporting it and then I will really look like the bad guy who can't forgive and try to work it out.

At the moment I really feel like I just can't win this and I also think the PM is not the only guilty one but so is the company. And something doesn't seem right between that board member and the PM. I always felt that board member was on the side of the homeowners but this person's actions says otherwise.

Maybe, I seem paranoid, but my gut is saying there is more here that may be wrong than what I have found out and I don't have a clue of what it may be and where to find the answers.

I did look through the financials and haven't found any evidence of kickbacks, but I did find something else that didn't seem right. But this is for another discussion. Maybe someone can help me figure it out.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

EricaB2, perhaps your board needs to remember that if there have been kickbacks, bid rigging or whatever illegal deed the PM has done, and the board has knowledge but fails to act on that knowledge, then they may be held accountable if, for example, a losing bidder sues. Not only does that fly in the face of fiduciary duty but D&O Insurance will not cover this kind of thing. I say do not be afraid to be the voice of reason; say what you think and put it on the record that you do not think the PM should continue on your payroll and why.

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