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Retention ponds - Why

Started by RobM2 • 22 replies • 2763 views

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RobM2 (Illinois)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I am the president of a 20-home association. We have two retention ponds down at the end of the street. Next to one of the ponds is a house that is closer to the ponds than any other house in the new subdivision. The lady that lives there loves to call the city and the alderman to complain about the trees being too tall, grass not cut in a timely manner, etc.

I got to wondering why we are paying to maintain those ponds when someone else is "benefiting" from them. I read a little bit about storm runoff but I still can't see why our 20 homes that aren't anywhere near those ponds just our responsibility. Shouldn't homes within a certain radius ALL have to "pitch in" their fair share? I wanna get a civil engineer out there to determine whether or not other homes in the area benefit from those ponds.

I mean, if an animal got stuck in one of the ponds and died, thus creating a bad smell of rotting flesh, wouldn't the home closest to the dead animal be the first to get a good whiff? What am I not seeing here?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Rob,

I understand your logic.
Of course the same argument can be used, and has been used, on other issues. Example:
I don't live on your street, why am I paying assessments to maintain your road.
I don't use the pool, why must I pay to maintain it.

The reason why everyone is paying to maintain the storm water retention ponds is because that is what it says in your governing documents. If you can gather support, you can amend the governing documents.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
Rob - check the plat for your community and see if the stormwater ponds are part of your community. Are the ponds marked as common area? If they are common area and on your sub-division plat then it should be in your Covenants that your Assn is to maintain the ponds. It could be possible the developer has future plans to enlarge your community. Which brings up another question, has the Developer turned everything over to your Assn? If not, then it is up to him to maintain the common areas until transition.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
Rob - One last thought. There should be a permit for the ponds. Is the permit in the Assn name or the Developers? Our Assn had this problem with our Developer and the Assn couldn't do anything to the ponds until the permit was turned over to the Assn. Hope this helps.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
As Nancy said, the plat should include a description of the ponds and their use/ownership.
I assume you have a county drain commission that established the need for the retention ponds. They would be the ones who can tell you the area served.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
the engineered storm water retention pond utilities are REQUIRED by federal, state, and local law and handle the storm water run-off for the entire community

they must be funded and maintained by the entire community

y'all built homes ~ y'all handle the water run-off

do you expect ME to pay for their maintenance ?

i'm already paying for the maintenance in MY sub-division !

? should these utilities be handled on a county or state basis ?

let the debate begin
RobM2 (Illinois)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Yes, forgot to mention that the developer turned over the association to us. Developer wound up going under not much later. We now maintain the ponds.
RobM2 (Illinois)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I could see if it was a cul de sac or something where the ponds sat in the middle of the surrounding homes. Then, yes, it would make complete sense as to why the homeowners association is responsible for those ponds.

Before the developer went in there and built those homes, I have to figure that there were no ponds there. I would still like to hire an engineer to do a study/survey so that I can see for myself why we're responsible and how those other homes do "not" benefit.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Rob

I know in order for our developer to get the land platted for homes, he had to build and maintain our storm retention pond. It is in our Covenants that we must. I am quite sure we could not relieve ourselves of that responsibility even if we wanted to.

Our pond it at the bottom of a dead end road. About 20 or us live around the pond. 80 or so of our neighbors never even see it as they have no reason to come down the road. I expect those 80 do not like the expense of the pond. Of course they might be the same type that say well I do not use the end of that road so why should I pay for it.

Bottom line. Like it or not, it quite common.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Rob,

You are probably correct that the retention ponds didn't exist prior to the development being built.

This all started with EPA regulations and Federal laws to minimize pollutants from entering drinking water. Depending on the State, most new/newer developments all have some sort of storm water management system.
RobM2 (Illinois)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Are those 80 or so neighbors part of your homeowners association? If they are, then they should be responsible for it just like the other 20? The ponds and homes that I'm talking about are all on one street. There is no slope that I can see with the naked eye that allows for water to run down to the ponds. I could see if our developer built all 20 of our homes at the top of a hill.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
The city required the development to put in retaining ponds prior to the development being approved, that is why they exist. If they are not maintained, the city may maintain it for you (at city worker rates) and attach a lien to each home. If you fail to pay the city will simply foreclose on your home.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Rob save your money on the engineer and pay a visit to your local Zoning Board Office. All of the requirements for your HOA including the size and scope of the water retention ponds should be there.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
the retention basin(s) are to absorb the run-off from the new (houses 'roofs', roads, driveways) impermeable surfaces created by the developement where there once was trees, meadows, grassland, etc.

there are probably several 'culverts' emptying into the basins as well as an 'outflow' weir assembly to control flooding in the event of a massive storm

you really really really need to become somewhat educated on the issue of stormwater BEFORE you do anything to modify your system in any way

ps. being a well meaning but ignorant volunteer WILL NOT absolve you of any responsibility in this matter AS PER FEDERAL LAW

your D & O insurance will NOT protect you against Mal-feasance or Non-feasance

as you have now been actually informed, it behooves you to BECOME knowledgeable
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
What do you have for drainage? Ditches? Curbs with drains?
Is there any water in the ponds or are they normally dry? and what maintenance are you worried about?
Our retention "ponds" are mostly dry and get mowed. Mowed around when they're wet. Not a big deal.
What benefit are you concerned about others having relative to your ponds?
RobM2 (Illinois)
Posts: 6
Posted:
no shit, dumbass. why do you think I came on this board? to ask questions! you think i'm gonna go marching down to city hall and kick the doors in? you think i'm gonna go to the phone book and call the engineer whose name I see first?

I'm not trying to get out of being responsible for the retention ponds. All I'm wondering is how a home literally 20 feet from one of the ponds is somehow absolved from all this yet they complain the grass is an inch too high and that the trees the developer put there are creating a mess of leaves for them in the fall.

I don't claim to know it all. I'm just looking at it from a simple layman's terms.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
I'm wondering is how a home literally 20 feet from one of the ponds is somehow absolved from all this yet they complain the grass is an inch too high and that the trees the developer put there are creating a mess of leaves for them in the fall.


It's likely her home was there before your subdivision and she hates that it was developed. I duno, doesnt matter why she hates you. Anyone can call the city on you for not maintaining it. Someone 30 miles away can call and it would be the same, you have to maintain it.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
The simple answer as to why you have to pay to maintain it even though you don't live near it and the woman who lives next to it and complains doesn't, is because it is on your (the HOA's) property.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobM2 (Illinois)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Like I said, we know we have to maintain those lots. We're not gonna get out of that and we accept it. That's not the issue here.
Yes, her house was there before we got there. And yes, she probably hates the fact that we're there now because the road that is there now didn't exist before thus creating way more traffic than anyone could have anticipated. Oh well
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
DOH
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobM2 on 07/22/2013 1:12 PM
Like I said, we know we have to maintain those lots. We're not gonna get out of that and we accept it. That's not the issue here.
Yes, her house was there before we got there. And yes, she probably hates the fact that we're there now because the road that is there now didn't exist before thus creating way more traffic than anyone could have anticipated. Oh well

Sounds like you answered your own question then. She was there first, the retention ponds exist because of your development. If your development didn't exist, neither would the ponds. What seems to be the problem then?

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
DOH DUUUUUUUUUUH DOH
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
ps.

y'all built something next to her home and she wants you to properly maintain same

evidently she is a real PITA

~ sarcasm ~

;)

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