JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
http://phoenix.about.com/gi/pages/poll.htm?linkback=http%3A%2F%2Fphoenix.about.com%2Flibrary%2Fweekly%2FaaHOApoll.htm&poll_id=4452499263&poll1=1&poll5=1&submit1=Submit+Vote
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mike juuuust may have a point
Started by JohnB26 • 10 replies • 1514 views
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FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276
Posts: 276
Posted:
Mike definitely has a point. He is also correct IMO, as are others here, that HOAs are coming under scrutiny and will change. The 'hard ball, in your face tactics' employed by some posters here whenever pro-Board views are challenged is what many of us have experienced where we live just for questioning Board behaviors and practices. Those that refuse to be intimidated and take their time documenting everything are causing Boards to change their behaviors.
A willingness to expose self-serving behaviors to the general public is what is finally causing these changes IMO. While many citizens understand they can not have an impact on Washington, they realize they can rectify problems in their own communities that all too many of us have been subjected to. I pity the Boards with attitudes displayed here that do end up being sued. I doubt even wearing bikinis would have much of an effect on convincing jurors to not "throw the bums out". Hopefully posts like Out's, and polls like this will penetrate the pompous arrogant mindset dominating this site.
Thanks, I feel better!
A willingness to expose self-serving behaviors to the general public is what is finally causing these changes IMO. While many citizens understand they can not have an impact on Washington, they realize they can rectify problems in their own communities that all too many of us have been subjected to. I pity the Boards with attitudes displayed here that do end up being sued. I doubt even wearing bikinis would have much of an effect on convincing jurors to not "throw the bums out". Hopefully posts like Out's, and polls like this will penetrate the pompous arrogant mindset dominating this site.
Thanks, I feel better!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
John I wonder how many of the 51% who voted - All HOAs should be eliminated - were ever in violation?
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Who conducted this survey? Were the respondents from all over the USA? Or just Phoenix?
MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389
Posts: 389
Posted:
Don't be shy....you can say I have a point without the emphasis on juuuuust.
In fact,I will go out on a limb and predict that 20 years from now....HOAs will be looked upon as just some huge scam that
ran for a while, and like those racial deed restrictions from not to long ago....with the same disgust.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
BEGIN RANT......
unfortuneately the hoa is necessary to maintain the engineered utility otherwise known as a 'storm water system'
in order to hide the fact of this (future $$$$$$) required maintenance the 'builder' also makes a fancy entrance sign (cheap), a 'quick build' clubhouse, private roads (so they don't have be up to actual code), etc
in order to shield the actual owners of said property from personal liability the hoa generally incorporates
once incorporated it then requires a board of (volunteer) directors
THAT is where the problem lies
WELL MEANING but basically IGNORANT volunteers ~ 'protected' by their D & O insurance and usually 'indemnified' by the 'governing docs' (which far far too many members have not bothered to read)
so, the not-for-profit hoa hires a FOR PROFIT mgmt co. which proceeds in many cases to commit legalized rape
.......RANT OVER
unfortuneately the hoa is necessary to maintain the engineered utility otherwise known as a 'storm water system'
in order to hide the fact of this (future $$$$$$) required maintenance the 'builder' also makes a fancy entrance sign (cheap), a 'quick build' clubhouse, private roads (so they don't have be up to actual code), etc
in order to shield the actual owners of said property from personal liability the hoa generally incorporates
once incorporated it then requires a board of (volunteer) directors
THAT is where the problem lies
WELL MEANING but basically IGNORANT volunteers ~ 'protected' by their D & O insurance and usually 'indemnified' by the 'governing docs' (which far far too many members have not bothered to read)
so, the not-for-profit hoa hires a FOR PROFIT mgmt co. which proceeds in many cases to commit legalized rape
.......RANT OVER
RobertN5 (Oregon)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Board member here:
So 50% of those answering the pole would love to do away with their HOA. The question I have is, why did those 50% purchase a property in a community that was administered by an HOA in the first place? Did they like living in a neighborhood with consistently green, mowed lawns and regular landscape maintenance? Did they like that they were not responsible for repairing and replacing their roofing, calking and painting their siding and trim? Did they like the absence of some guy living in a camp trailer across the street, or the absence of the neighbor rebuilding a rusted '67 Chevy on his front lawn. Do they miss not having the other neighbor running a perpetual garage sale on his driveway? Did they like that the guy across the street couldn't paint his house fuschia with lime green trim? Maybe the community pool or the club house for your family get togethers was the attraction perhaps?
Funny; it's like everyone hates cops when they get pulled over for speeding, but they sure like it that they're are out there arresting the bank robbers, embezzlers, drunk drivers and child abusers.
You guys sure like having someone to call on when one of your neighbor's does something that makes the neighborhood look 'tacky'. We board members notice that HOA board critics seem to come in pairs - for each angry owner who got a notice because he consistently leaves his garbage cans out there seems to be another angry owner who has complained to the board because his neighbor consistently leaves his garbage cans out.
For those of you who think those of us who serve on a board are on some kind of power trip, let me tell you, we put in a HUGE amount of UNPAID VOLUNTEER hours, protecting our, and your, investments. I got on the board because I wanted to be sure that when my roof needed to be replaced the money would be there instead of siphoned off into some guy's Cayman Island bank account while nobody was looking. It's happened to other HOAs, believe me!
We have board meetings almost every month. Let me share with you the statistics of the number of owners who are interested enough in the livability of their community and the maintenance of the value of their real estate investment to bother to attend a board meeting; ZERO! Ambivalence is so rampant that we have to call and beg people to cajole them into mailing in the minimum number of proxies ONCE A YEAR so we can keep a functioning board banging our heads against the wall protecting your interests. Like how difficult is it to carve out 20 seconds out a year to sign and mail in your proxy?
Yes, for-profit community management is an issue - we've burned through two of them before we found a company that provided a competent level of customer service and ethical management.
But Yeah, go ahead, get rid of your HOA. Patch your own roof, paint your own siding, beg your neighbor to maybe at least whack their weed infested foot tall lawn; and when you put your property up for sale, hope the realtor drives prospective buyers around where they won't see the dilapidated pickup truck bed rusting in the street.
If you don't like the way your HOA operates and you think you could do better, then do it; get involved, go to the meetings, run for the board. Most of those people serving on boards are there because nobody else could be bothered to step up to do the job.
I'll tell you two reasons why the 50% won't get rid of their HOAs: 1. they love the benefits of a managed community even though they don't recognize them, and 2) they would have to get off their duffs and actually DO something to make that happen.
I think anonymous commentary is cowardice. I stand behind my opinions. My name is Robert Neary, Secretary of the Meadows at Timberhill HOA.
Now my rant is off. RobertN5
So 50% of those answering the pole would love to do away with their HOA. The question I have is, why did those 50% purchase a property in a community that was administered by an HOA in the first place? Did they like living in a neighborhood with consistently green, mowed lawns and regular landscape maintenance? Did they like that they were not responsible for repairing and replacing their roofing, calking and painting their siding and trim? Did they like the absence of some guy living in a camp trailer across the street, or the absence of the neighbor rebuilding a rusted '67 Chevy on his front lawn. Do they miss not having the other neighbor running a perpetual garage sale on his driveway? Did they like that the guy across the street couldn't paint his house fuschia with lime green trim? Maybe the community pool or the club house for your family get togethers was the attraction perhaps?
Funny; it's like everyone hates cops when they get pulled over for speeding, but they sure like it that they're are out there arresting the bank robbers, embezzlers, drunk drivers and child abusers.
You guys sure like having someone to call on when one of your neighbor's does something that makes the neighborhood look 'tacky'. We board members notice that HOA board critics seem to come in pairs - for each angry owner who got a notice because he consistently leaves his garbage cans out there seems to be another angry owner who has complained to the board because his neighbor consistently leaves his garbage cans out.
For those of you who think those of us who serve on a board are on some kind of power trip, let me tell you, we put in a HUGE amount of UNPAID VOLUNTEER hours, protecting our, and your, investments. I got on the board because I wanted to be sure that when my roof needed to be replaced the money would be there instead of siphoned off into some guy's Cayman Island bank account while nobody was looking. It's happened to other HOAs, believe me!
We have board meetings almost every month. Let me share with you the statistics of the number of owners who are interested enough in the livability of their community and the maintenance of the value of their real estate investment to bother to attend a board meeting; ZERO! Ambivalence is so rampant that we have to call and beg people to cajole them into mailing in the minimum number of proxies ONCE A YEAR so we can keep a functioning board banging our heads against the wall protecting your interests. Like how difficult is it to carve out 20 seconds out a year to sign and mail in your proxy?
Yes, for-profit community management is an issue - we've burned through two of them before we found a company that provided a competent level of customer service and ethical management.
But Yeah, go ahead, get rid of your HOA. Patch your own roof, paint your own siding, beg your neighbor to maybe at least whack their weed infested foot tall lawn; and when you put your property up for sale, hope the realtor drives prospective buyers around where they won't see the dilapidated pickup truck bed rusting in the street.
If you don't like the way your HOA operates and you think you could do better, then do it; get involved, go to the meetings, run for the board. Most of those people serving on boards are there because nobody else could be bothered to step up to do the job.
I'll tell you two reasons why the 50% won't get rid of their HOAs: 1. they love the benefits of a managed community even though they don't recognize them, and 2) they would have to get off their duffs and actually DO something to make that happen.
I think anonymous commentary is cowardice. I stand behind my opinions. My name is Robert Neary, Secretary of the Meadows at Timberhill HOA.
Now my rant is off. RobertN5
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertN5 on 07/23/2013 7:56 PM
Board member here:
So 50% of those answering the pole would love to do away with their HOA. The question I have is, why did those 50% purchase a property in a community that was administered by an HOA in the first place?
Board member here:
So 50% of those answering the pole would love to do away with their HOA. The question I have is, why did those 50% purchase a property in a community that was administered by an HOA in the first place?
Yep. If you really want to make change and have all Associations abolished, the answer is simple. Don't buy property that has an Association.
Over time (not overnight) as developers lose money and local governments lose potential tax revenue, Associations will cease to exist.
This might require you to purchase property in a different part of the city than you wanted. It might require you live next to a property that is not properly maintained.
Now, I do believe that there needs to be better disclosure laws. That a full set of governing documents should be provided to every potential buyer and a real time frame (7-10 days) should be allotted for the buyer to read, ask questions and understand those documents (better yet, they should be provided online). This will giver the buyer an opportunity to decide if they can live by those rules or not.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/23/2013 8:15 PM Now, I do believe that there needs to be better disclosure laws. That a full set of governing documents should be provided to every potential buyer and a real time frame (7-10 days) should be allotted for the buyer to read, ask questions and understand those documents (better yet, they should be provided online). This will giver the buyer an opportunity to decide if they can live by those rules or not.
Tim along those lines we could change the sheet where you sign agreeing to be part of the HOA, it should be printed on neon orange paper and include some of the major points of the CC&R's.
PLEASE READ THE COVENANT'S, BY-LAWS AND RULES TO FIND OUT ALL OF THE RULES AND REGULATIONS YOU ARE AGREEING TO FOLLOW BUT HERE ARE A FEW OF THE HIGHLIGHTS:
No matter what you were told by the seller or their agent, there really is an active HOA and we do enforce the Covenants, By-Laws and Rules.
Yes, you really have to request permission from the HOA to alter the outside of your home, including but not limited to paint color, yard art, storm door, fences, roofing material and pools.
No, you may not park a commercial vehicle, boat, camper or RV in your driveway or on the street.
No, you may not park on the street at night.
No, you cannot put up a basketball hoop in the front of your home and any temporary hoop, must be stored in your backyard when not in use.
Yes, you really have to store your trashcans out of sight except for the 12 hours before or the 12 hours following trash pickup.
Yes, your pet has to be on a leash and you have to pickup after them.
Yes, you really have to cut your grass.
No, you cannot build your child that amazing 50' play area you saw in some magazine or home store.
YES WE REALLY CAN AND WILL IMPOSE A MONETARY PENALTY FOR VIOLATING THE CC&R'S
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
FrankS10 (Kansas)
Posts: 276
Posts: 276
Posted:
Robert,
Cut and run is just not the American way. We stand on principle and most good Americans will work for positive change.
Most of us support the stated goals of an HOA. I have admitted that healthy functioning ones do increase the attractiveness of a neighborhood and in theory increase property values and reduce time on the market when trying to sell.
Your argument is one akin to if we disagree with how the U.S. government conducts itself, say like the IRS tactics, we should just move away from America. It is a lame and juvenile position.
It is not the HOA itself, but too often people who get on their Boards and do NOT enforce the HOA documents fairly/consistently exercising good common sense or enforce them as they see fit. AND, when this does happen, there are very few checks and balances in place that members can turn to for help. Americans also believe in proper checks and balances, our FF spent a lot of time creating 3 branches to accomplish this. So, for many of us, the stark lack of checks and balances with regards to HOA remains in sharp contrast to how we typically do business.
You sound like a Board member who conducts himself admirably. Thank you. Most do IMO. But again, too often when there are problems there is no where to turn to and then you have Board members who conduct themselves as witnessed here-attack those bringing issues forward. The attacks have been so vile in certain cases that members have had to ask their county attorneys for assistance in being able to live a harassment free life in their community.
Thanks.
Cut and run is just not the American way. We stand on principle and most good Americans will work for positive change.
Most of us support the stated goals of an HOA. I have admitted that healthy functioning ones do increase the attractiveness of a neighborhood and in theory increase property values and reduce time on the market when trying to sell.
Your argument is one akin to if we disagree with how the U.S. government conducts itself, say like the IRS tactics, we should just move away from America. It is a lame and juvenile position.
It is not the HOA itself, but too often people who get on their Boards and do NOT enforce the HOA documents fairly/consistently exercising good common sense or enforce them as they see fit. AND, when this does happen, there are very few checks and balances in place that members can turn to for help. Americans also believe in proper checks and balances, our FF spent a lot of time creating 3 branches to accomplish this. So, for many of us, the stark lack of checks and balances with regards to HOA remains in sharp contrast to how we typically do business.
You sound like a Board member who conducts himself admirably. Thank you. Most do IMO. But again, too often when there are problems there is no where to turn to and then you have Board members who conduct themselves as witnessed here-attack those bringing issues forward. The attacks have been so vile in certain cases that members have had to ask their county attorneys for assistance in being able to live a harassment free life in their community.
Thanks.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertN5 on 07/23/2013 7:56 PM
Board member here:
So 50% of those answering the pole would love to do away with their HOA. The question I have is, why did those 50% purchase a property in a community that was administered by an HOA in the first place?
Board member here:
So 50% of those answering the pole would love to do away with their HOA. The question I have is, why did those 50% purchase a property in a community that was administered by an HOA in the first place?
I would love to see a more detailed survey then this one. I would have voted for getting rid of my HOA, but then again I technically didn't really have a HOA to begin with. My family chose their properties specifically because they existed in neighborhoods with no HOA or voluntary associations. In both those neighborhoods problems occurred.
In the neighborhood with no HOA, a neighboring HOA insisted they were in charge and converted my neighborhood into what they called a "mandatory maintenance" neighborhood, being able to charge non-members any amount they wanted to at anytime they chose. Their attorney came up with a "loophole" by claiming the HOA was still voluntary but membership was mandatory after joining. They used this to try and skirt Statute 720 that defines HOAs as mandatory but ignored the fact that statute 617 states only members to a corporation can be held liable to that corporation. They then threatened legal action against homeowners like me.
That is not why we bought into that neighborhood.
In the neighborhood with the voluntary HOA, we were happy abiding by the rules and we were members for a long time but then the same lawyer from the neighborhood above did some kind of conversion in this neighborhood forcing every homeowner into membership for life. The costs then skyrocketed (assessments doubled and harassment increased). Again, not why we bought into that neighborhood.
Now both neighborhoods I got out of the HOA and life couldn't be any better. My next property I will again research what kind of neighborhood I would be moving into but I fear that nothing would stop some overzealous ignorant neighbors of mine from causing me more headaches.
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