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EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
My daughter, who lives in Tucson, AZ, has a concern regarding the management company of her HOA and asked me for help. Apparently the CEO/President of the company that manages her HOA was involved in an alcohol related domestic violence incident, arrested and charged with Domestic Violence Assault. The victim declined to testify and all charges were subsequently dismissed. As a result of this arrest, my daughter discovered that this individual had a previous felony conviction. The felony had to do with fraud/forgery. According to court documents, this individual forged a signature on a check and cashed it for personal gain. My daughter is obviously concerned about the possible mismanagement of funds. Doesn't a felony conviction pose a certification issue for the CEO/President of a property management company? Where would her association turn to address their concerns? Thanks in advance!
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Tell her to hire another management company immediately.
Jeanne
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Ed,

In Arizona anyone may call themselves an HOA manager. There is no licensing or supervision. If I had a history of fraud and wanted a fertile hunting ground, I would set up shop managing HOA's and their funds.

Your daughter's association should find another management company immediately.
EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
What about these credentials? CMCA, AMS? Wouldn't a felony conviction have disqualified this person?
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdL6 on 07/15/2013 9:38 AM
What about these credentials? CMCA, AMS? Wouldn't a felony conviction have disqualified this person?

If those credentials were imparted after the conviction, sure. If the company who gives those letters knows about it. If they were earned before the conviction, who knows. Also, anyone can pretty much put anything behind their names, if no one bothers to check...

brian

CMSP, phD, DOL, Navy SEAL, UDT/B, EMT-1, PMT, DDS, DOD, CSP, ACCI, POTUS.
EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
First of all, let me thank you all so very much.

Credentials were post-conviction. I've also learned this individual professes to have graduated from a major university and that is also false. What organization would be appropriate to report this type of thing?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Ed,

I don't think any management company should have the authority to issue checks. They should collect and track payments and make daily/weekly deposits. Other than that, the Board should maintain the checkbook/savings accounts and be the only ones with signature authority on the accounts.

It amazes me how individuals typically wouldn't turn over their household finances to a complete stranger but are more than willing to turn over control of Association funds to complete strangers.
EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I went to the AZ Dept of Real Estate and I can't find anyone in this company that has a real estate license.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Ed,

As much as you want to, you can't really do anything. This is your daughters issue. Additionally, if your daughter isn't on her Board of Directors, she is limited in what she may do about the issue.

She needs to bring this issue, along with any evidence, to her Board. The Board should review the contract and see if they can terminate the contract or must wait for it to run it's course.

Either way, the Board can take steps to minimize any potential damage by removing access the MC may have to the money. This will require the individual board members to actually step up and do the work for awhile. Hopefully, they are willing to do this.

If I may ask, what brought all of this out? That is, what prompted her to even look at this issue?
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
While I would not want someone with a check-forgery conviction managing my HOA, the most important question is whether there is any fraud NOW. Seems to me the first step here would be an audit.
EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
It was brought to light after this individual was arrested. Someone did a records check after her arrest and discovered the felony conviction. I was told in order to be a manager of HOA's you had to have a real estate license. I conducted a search by name and business name and can't find one there.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Not sure if any agency would take meaningfull action in reagrds to the complaints your daughter seems to have.

Having a criminal record or having been charged with domestic violence is not a crime to my knowledge.

I would wonder when the supposed forgery took place? Within the last 10 years or longer? Was it related to their business and the money of an HOA?

Not sure how the OWNER/CEO of the company plays a direct role on your daughter's property. Do they take an active day to day role in the operaions of that property? Do they have check writing abilites on the HOA's accounts? If they do it should not be so in any situation.

And IF the complaints your daughter has comes to be true should those who might also work for this compnay be made to suffer because of the actions of the owner? My question is what type of job is the MC doing in managing that property? How long have they served the community. And for what reason did you daughter begin a background check on the owner/CEO?
Did she conduct such a search on anyone else? Board members, neighbors??

MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdL6 on 07/15/2013 9:38 AM
What about these credentials? CMCA, AMS? Wouldn't a felony conviction have disqualified this person?

Ed,

I think you missed the part about no licensing and no supervision in Arizona. There are no qualifications and therefore no disqualifications.
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdL6 on 07/15/2013 11:06 AM
I went to the AZ Dept of Real Estate and I can't find anyone in this company that has a real estate license.

You do not need a real estate license in Arizona to manage an HOA. He would need a broker's license to manage apartment rentals or house rentals, but the convicted felon can handle HOA business all day without any licenses of any type. He does not even need a sales tax license as Arizona does not tax services.
EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks again, very good questions; many of which I do not have an answer for. I need to do some more homework and get back to you.
BellaM2 (Florida)
Posts: 61
Posted:
I am concerned with our President who is always defending our Property Mgr.
Pres. emailed me when I got on the Board to tell me I sent the PR too many emails. Always has an excuse for the PR.
We just had an annual meeting and even though everyone knows the PR is not walking the property once a month as his contract says, he gets away with it. Pres. told owners that we are very happy with the PR performance and he is doing an excellent job. Even though 1 month ago I had to call the owner of the company because of a serious issue with a mentally ill man living in one of the townhomes that his mother owns and the PR would not come to see the conditions I explained to him on the phone until his boss got the attorney involved. Now I am the enemy of the Pres. & PR. I wonder if this Pres. got his townhome Free or he made an Investment like me and others?
I am greatly concerned and do not know what to do.

BellaM2 FL
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/15/2013 11:14 AM

She needs to bring this issue, along with any evidence, to her Board. The Board should review the contract and see if they can terminate the contract or must wait for it to run it's course.

Any contract can be terminated for good cause. A person handling your funds who failed to disclose a prior felony conviction for fraud or forgery is about as good a cause as one can have. The only better cause, of course, would to wait for the MC to walk off with all the HOA's funds. No court is going to require that the association continue to do business with a person convicted of financial fraud.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
It is surprising to me that with limited information some have decided the MC should be terminated. Does the OP's daughter have actual copies of the court records? Do they detail what in fact happened? What was the charge? Were they convicted? What was the sentence? When was this? Did it involve monies from HOAs?

Now as to the suggestion the MC could walk away with the property's money. Well if the Board leaves in place that possibility and allows the MC or some staff member of the MC to do so firing anyone with any criminal record won't prevent that.

Not sure on all properties but we have fidelity coverage that would pat off in the event someone acted in a criminal manner stealing the property's funds.

Again, what is the MC's job performance like? How long have they been there? Any other issues?

To suggest the time has come to terminate the MC with what we have been told is IMO a little premature.

And if not have you run checks on all the people working in your MC's office if not why?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
The association should carefully review a prospective management company before hiring them.

When our association hired our present management company, we solicited bids from several. After narrowing down the list to the top 3 or 4, we reviewed each of them to learn what properties were managed by each and spoke to the presidents of several of those properties. We also reviewed the records of the officers and employees or each. Finally, each management company was asked to have the person who would be assigned as our property manager to appear before the board for an interview.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BellaM2 on 07/15/2013 1:01 PM
I am concerned with our President who is always defending our Property Mgr.
Pres. emailed me when I got on the Board to tell me I sent the PR too many emails. Always has an excuse for the PR.
We just had an annual meeting and even though everyone knows the PR is not walking the property once a month as his contract says, he gets away with it. Pres. told owners that we are very happy with the PR performance and he is doing an excellent job. Even though 1 month ago I had to call the owner of the company because of a serious issue with a mentally ill man living in one of the townhomes that his mother owns and the PR would not come to see the conditions I explained to him on the phone until his boss got the attorney involved. Now I am the enemy of the Pres. & PR. I wonder if this Pres. got his townhome Free or he made an Investment like me and others?
I am greatly concerned and do not know what to do.

BellaM2 FL

I am sorry Bella but from the information you have provided sounds to me like you might have assumed the role of the bull in the china closet. The does not work for you as an individual.
More than likely they don't sit in their office waiting to address what you might view as an urgent matter day to day. Perhaps the President attempted to suggest you tap your brakes and take a step back.

How many times did you e-mail the MC? Over what period of time? Concerning what?

And why would YOU feel it necessary to call the owner of the MC regarding so situation YOU determined was urgent or an emergency? You reported it and you should allow them to take what action they deem necessary.

Sounds to me like you have determined the MC should act when you say so. Respond when you determine something needs to be addressed ASAP. If not in your opinion there is a problem.

My suggestion sit back, let them do the job they are paid for and understand what you might consider to be a pressin problem just might not be one or might not involve the HOA.

How long have you served on your Board?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bella

You are sounding more and more like the neighborhood busybody.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Bella,

You should start a new thread rather than diverting this thread. This is because the issues are different enough and the laws in Stats vary that other readers may become confused by the advice offered.

You can start a new topic by clicking the words "add new topic" right above the blue bar that says topics.
BellaM2 (Florida)
Posts: 61
Posted:
I served on the Board in another state for 4 yrs. in Florida I had just gotten on the Board 1 month and asked lots of question to get familiar with this new position. Up to now after 2 yrs. on this present board $100,000. is unaccountable for and no one has an answer???Hello??
Yes!!I called the Owner because a person has destroyed the lives and scared to death adults and kids. One neighbor did a short sale, destroyed credit for 3yrs. and was ignored by PM cries for help. I saw hurt, pain, as I write this email the tears are flowing from my eyes.
The owner of MC immediately started work with attorney, we are moving quickly with lots of help. Hopefully by end of month this lunatic will be gone, and these people my neighbors will have peace, the kids will enjoy the rest of the summer.

Its not a Busybody, Its called Love, Caring, Compassion for your fellow man that our society is out of touch with.

Don't be so quick to judge. BellaM2 (FL)
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
EdL:
Don't be so sure this individual actually has the CAI credentials he says he has. Go on the CAI web site and see if he is listed as having those credentials.
Just last year a management company in Maryland, whose president lied about his CAI credentials, was co-mingling all accounts and forging financial statements. The company closed down taking the funds of over 100 associations with them. The associations have sued to get the money back but now the homeowners can't sell their properties because of the law suit.
Again, advise your daughter to mobilize the community to insist the board find a new management company.
Jeanne
EdL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Apparently management companies who act as third party collection agencies by collecting HOA fees and fines MUST be licensed real estate agents and/or have a brokers license. There is a pending law suit regarding this issue.

http://jrogerwoodlaw.com/homepage/class-action-filed-against-az-hoa-management-companies/

I am also in the process of verifying the certifications.

I also discovered that this felony was old, more than 30 years ago, so I'm not sure how relevant it is at this point.
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdL6 on 07/16/2013 4:30 AM
Apparently management companies who act as third party collection agencies by collecting HOA fees and fines MUST be licensed real estate agents and/or have a brokers license. There is a pending law suit regarding this issue.

Ed,

Collection agencies must be licensed by the Arizona Department of Financial Institutions. Their website is located at http://azdfi.gov/index.html.

The Arizona Department of Real Estate has nothing to do with licensing collection agencies just as it has nothing to do with licensing HOA management companies.

The basis of the lawsuit you referenced is that some HOA management companies have taken on the role of collecting delinquencies without being licensed as collection agencies.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EdL6 on 07/16/2013 4:30 AM
Apparently management companies who act as third party collection agencies by collecting HOA fees and fines MUST be licensed real estate agents and/or have a brokers license. There is a pending law suit regarding this issue.

http://jrogerwoodlaw.com/homepage/class-action-filed-against-az-hoa-management-companies/

I am also in the process of verifying the certifications.

I also discovered that this felony was old, more than 30 years ago, so I'm not sure how relevant it is at this point.

IMO it would than not be relevant. MORE than 30 years! And just what were the circumstances we don't even know.

So now you have left a domestic violence complaint that was not followed up on and some here have decided to terminate the MC based on that.

Sounds to me like the OP's daughter has a bone to pick with the MC and has decided to go out of their way to "find" issues.

Again, if the Board has procedures in place to prevent the misuse of funds no matter WHO the MC were than his would probably be a non-issue in the real world.

Just how does this wld goose chase serve the property?

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Some of Jon's points & questions are important, Ed. It seems as though you may have jumped the gun a bit in reaching certain conclusions.

Jeanne suggests going to see if the MC Prez is certified by CAI. CAI, Ed, is the Community Association Inst., a national org. Our Prop. Mgr. has a couple of certificates from them.

Our MC is very large and there's no way the Pres/CEO would sign checks.

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