Can the Board President sign a neighbor to neighbor complaint letter?

Started by JenniferC11 • 11 replies • 2087 views

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JenniferC11 (California)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I am a member of an association in California and recently our board has proposed an addition to the Rules & Reqs. I am new to the community, as we have just purchased our house 8 months ago. A special meeting was held to discuss the new proposed rule. My opinions were discussed as well as others of the community. I don't want the rule to be added and professionally argued my point. The day after the special meeting a letter was put together by 17 neighbors and sent to me stating that I am creating a "public nuisance" and violating county ordinances.
The letter states that I "indicate that I have practiced and state I intend to continue" such action. In the meeting I did state we practiced this proposed violation before this rule was brought up or discussed at any regular meeting or special meeting. And as for continued use, actions speak louder than words and there has been no practicing of any kind that has not already been deemed valid by the board since talks began. There was no mention of any specific dates or times of any such violation just neighbor to neighbor talks.
The thing I have a problem with is that this letter was on a neighbors letter head and signed by 17 neighbors who were not even at a meeting to hear me say anything at all. Not just that, THE PRESIDENT, THE TREASURER, and additional BOARD MEMBER signed this letter. The letter was CC to the board and as of today no further action has been taken and I have not responded.
My question:
Can a board president, a board treasurer and board member sign a neighbor to neighbor complaint letter w/o being in violation of their board duties? I was under the impression that board members are to be impartial during neighbor disputes. Any input at all would be so greatly appreciated.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I'm sorry, Jennifer. I'm having a difficult time following your topic. And I might not be the only one.

Is there currently a rule against the "practice" or not? If not, you were not in violation! The Board can take no action! They can't call you to a hearing or fine you or suspend your amenities privileges (if any).

But even though the Board cannot "do anything" to you, I'd think you'd want to repair relationships with your neighbors. Or, Jennifer, is there something else going on that you're not laying out for us?? What do they mean by "public nuisance"?

In CA, the Board legally could not have created this rule without having first sent it out by US mail to every owner for a 30-day comment period. Has that happened? If not, there is no such rule.

Your issue might make sense to more of us if you'd share the nature of the proposed rule. I don't think it'll identify your HOA as there aren't any rules I've seen that are totally unique to one HOA.

Hope my questions don't seen tough, I certainly have known of cases where a group of people can get themselves so very riled up--through gossiping with one another-- about trivial matters that all hell breaks loose.

Say are you detached homes? How many residences? What size is the board? Do you have a property manager?

A great web site for CA HOA members is davis-stirling.com written by HOA attorneys. Go to it -> Main Indez -> Rules for how rules must be made in CA. Go elsewhere on the site to learning about hearings for disciplinary action of members and how, legally, the process goes.

JenniferC11 (California)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Thank you for responding.
In my situation I live in a rural area of San Benito County and my family just moved into a community of 55 detached homes on at least 3acres on each lot. Most recently the Board has proposed a new rule that there is to be no recreational activity on an off-road vehicle (i.e. dirt bike, quad, etc.) on any given private lot. They are trying to impose this into the Rules & Req's because recently there has been activity on any given lot regarding the recreational use of off-road vehicles. It was brought up that it is already included into the county's General Plan that the use of such vehicles is limited to usage at the various parks. The board is trying to reiterate that county ordinance into the Rules & req's for future residents and current residents. The letter stating that the proposed rule was sent out for comments on July 3rd after a special meeting was held to discuss the situation. On July 18th the board will vote on whether or not to add it and then have it go into affect 30-days after that.
In the special meeting I stated that we have used these types of vehicles on my property w/o knowing it was against any rule whether it be county or hoa. Because I was opposed to this new proposed rule, I rec'd a letter from 17/55 (1/3) neighbors telling me i was creating a public nuisance even though there had been no activity on my property since the discussion began. The letter was sent to me from a neighbor but what i have a problem with, is that the letter was also signed by the President, Board Member and Treasurer. The letter is dated 7/4/13 so it feels like they are all ganging up on my , sort of speak. It feels like they wrote this letter and passed it around with the potato salad at a 4th of July picnic. The letter doesn't reference any specific incident or date or time or anything at all except that I said I have used our dirt bike before.

JenniferC11 (California)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I forgot to add the size of our board is 5. Described as: President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, Member at Large and we do not have a property manager.

DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565

Posted:

Jennifer,

Board members do not give up their status as members of the association when they join the board. Therefore there is no reason a board member cannot sign a letter to another association member. A smart board member would make it clear in any such letter that he/she was speaking as a member of the association and not expressing an opinion as a member of the board.

I really don't see how the identities of those who signed the letter bears on the issue of use of an ATV and whether the association rules can prohibit this.

JenniferC11 (California)
Posts: 5

Posted:

@DavidW5
I am new to dealing with HOA and I didn't know if it was deemed appropriate for the members of the board to sign this letter. You answered my question stating that it doesn't matter who signs it board member or association member. I just wanted to get it clarified.

The issue of the use of an ATV and the identities aren't connected. The board hasn't made voted yet and by 3 members already signing my letter, I know which way it will go already.

Thank you for your help.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

David actually answered your question, Jennifer; directors as homeowners have the same rights to makes complaints about rules violations as any other member. And I agree with him that they shouldn't identify themselves as representing "the Board" though they can list their position, e.g., president, etc.

I still think that the law states there must be a 30-day owner comment period, and your Board isn't permitting it. But if the vote will be to ban use of such vehicles in your HOA anyway, I don't know if you want to push the "legality" aspect.

Thanks for the details about your HOA--it's helpful. And if your county codes say that such vehicles must only be used in parks designated for them, seems you're stuck. Even though you weren't aware of that code when you bought in that county, unfortunately, you must still must follow that law.

I lived off & on--mainly on--in Santa Cruz county for many years and do believe that there's lots of land for dirt bike use in your county.

I'm sure you feel like others are piling on, but see if you can't make amends and enjoy your life.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JenniferC11 on 07/10/2013 11:23 AM

My question:
Can a board president, a board treasurer and board member sign a neighbor to neighbor complaint letter w/o being in violation of their board duties? I was under the impression that board members are to be impartial during neighbor disputes. Any input at all would be so greatly appreciated.

You need to remember that the members of the Board are also (typically) members of the Association. Therefore, providing that they didn't sign the letter as a Board member then I would say yes they could sign it just as any other member could.

I relate this to Military rules regarding political participation. If a service member wants to participate in a political rally they may certainly do so providing that they don't wear their uniform. Otherwise it can give the impression that the Military is supporting such an action.

Hence, in my mind, as long as the individuals didn't use their Association positional titles when signing the letter, they certainly had a right to do so.

JenniferC11 (California)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Thanks Carol.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

It was brought up that it is already included into the county's General Plan that the use of such vehicles is limited to usage at the various parks.

so ....... you are (or were) ALREADY in violation of the County Regulation(s)

your neighbors were probably loath to call the police on you

i hope, if you continue in violation, you receive the appropriate desk appearance summonses from local law enforcement (tickets are issued in lieu of actual arrests)

what, exactly, is your issue ?

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JenniferC11 on 07/10/2013 1:15 PM
Thank you for responding.
In my situation I live in a rural area of San Benito County and my family just moved into a community of 55 detached homes on at least 3acres on each lot. Most recently the Board has proposed a new rule that there is to be no recreational activity on an off-road vehicle (i.e. dirt bike, quad, etc.) on any given private lot. They are trying to impose this into the Rules & Req's because recently there has been activity on any given lot regarding the recreational use of off-road vehicles. It was brought up that it is already included into the county's General Plan that the use of such vehicles is limited to usage at the various parks. The board is trying to reiterate that county ordinance into the Rules & req's for future residents and current residents. The letter stating that the proposed rule was sent out for comments on July 3rd after a special meeting was held to discuss the situation. On July 18th the board will vote on whether or not to add it and then have it go into affect 30-days after that.
In the special meeting I stated that we have used these types of vehicles on my property w/o knowing it was against any rule whether it be county or hoa. Because I was opposed to this new proposed rule, I rec'd a letter from 17/55 (1/3) neighbors telling me i was creating a public nuisance even though there had been no activity on my property since the discussion began. The letter was sent to me from a neighbor but what i have a problem with, is that the letter was also signed by the President, Board Member and Treasurer. The letter is dated 7/4/13 so it feels like they are all ganging up on my , sort of speak. It feels like they wrote this letter and passed it around with the potato salad at a 4th of July picnic. The letter doesn't reference any specific incident or date or time or anything at all except that I said I have used our dirt bike before.

I don't actually think there needs to be a rule change. If this is already part of the county law, then it isn't up to the HOA to enforce or not enforce. However, if you've been there for eight months, then perhaps they feel that in this manner (i.e. including this ordinance in the CC&R), they can help inform every new owner of this county ordinance. Because you argued against it, perhaps they felt the need to help you understand how 1/3 of your neighbors feel.

While the letter was in poor form because it creates a hostile environment for you and I agree that the directors/officers should not have signed it as such, but simply just signed their names and I feel that this could be seen as a secret meeting since it seems that the majority of the board members met together and discussed HOA matters.

So I feel that both you and the board are in the wrong. Once someone brought a faux pas or violation of law to your attention you should have thanked them, apologized and asked where is the appropriate place to do such things in your new geographic location.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Jen

I have never heard of a neighbor to neighbor complaint letter but the name of it is self explanatory.

You violated the law and I guess the neighbors decided inform you. Me, I might have called the police on you.

You were wrong. Make with the Mea Culpa and stop challenging/fighting them.

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