Board Member Conducting Board Business - being threatened with harassment

Started by DonnaW10 • 57 replies • 4856 views

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DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

I am the unpopular board member on my HOA board. Why? Because I bring to light in a business manner when the other board members are stepping either outside the bylaws or the law.

Now because I send emails in a business fashion stating my concern or opinion on a board decision - pointing out potential illegal posturing, or add to a discussion on a board decision - there are 2 board members who keep trying to harassment with claims they are going to file a harassment suit against me for sending board business related emails. Email communication has been the form of between meeting communications between board members - and my emails are no different, just possibly more frequently as I feel it is a responsibility of my elected position to speak up when the board is leaning toward potentially illegal or unfair actions, or to correct information for accuracy.

I have consulted 3 attorney friends - and all state a board member can not claim harassment under the Texas Harassment Laws as the emails are business in nature - do not contain threats of any kinds.

Do any other board members have information on this type of harassment from other board members threatening with lawsuits to basically try and Gag the board member who is bringing to light - to the board - possibly improper actions and decisions?

Regards,
Donna Willis

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Donna, I have to wonder how long you have held this Board position?

I also wonder if you were elected to the Board or appointed?

It would be helpful if you provided just how the other Board members are violating the By-Laws and what possible criminal laws you feel they have failed to follow.

Seems you have appointed yourself quality control officer of the Board. In doing so at least two other Board members seem to have issues with your actions.

I just have to wonder what is your end goal in all of this? To force the remainder of the Board to do as you say? Certainly, you must realize that won't sit well with most folks.

I for one would like to hear some details as to your concerns.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Donna, I have to wonder how long you have held this Board position?

John my term was for 3 years and that term is up November 2013.

I also wonder if you were elected to the Board or appointed?

I was elected

It would be helpful if you provided just how the other Board members are violating the By-Laws and what possible criminal laws you feel they have failed to follow.

John, I mentioned nothing about criminal activity. My stance is the 2 board members have implemented a parking and towing policy that is incongruent with our bylaws and potentially placing the Association in a position of paying 100K fines to the city of Houston for illegal towing procedures. They have not informed the community of their newly implemented regulations accept by piece mail - but no master document stands and as a document informing of proper procedure to adhere to the new regulations. I went on record as voting no to the newly suggested rules and regulations - because of the holes in the process and lack of proper notification to residents. Since this regulation can cause financial hardship to residents, especially when they were not notified properly of the regulations, and because the city of Houston could sue the Association for improper towing or illegal towing.

Because I bring legal information to the attention of the board members who have voted in these procedures, I am not very well liked. The board members would rather play God and Ruler than be legal and within their rights - but use their power and lack of business acumen to rule over the residents as ignorant serfs.

Seems you have appointed yourself quality control officer of the Board. In doing so at least two other Board members seem to have issues with your actions.

This was not my goal John, but the only way I have found I can function with a purpose on this current board. When injustices are put on the table - tell me who should stand up? Shouldn't there be quality control? And when harassment and lawsuits are threatened just because you are trying to bring out perimeters of what the board can and cannot do - is that a horrible thing? I represent the community - not the other board members.

I just have to wonder what is your end goal in all of this? To force the remainder of the Board to do as you say? Certainly, you must realize that won't sit well with most folks.

John - the answer to that is, my end goal is to hopefully educate others so that proper decisions, legal decision can be made - NOT MY version of what needs to be done...JUST LEGAL and JUST. Nothing to do with me accept I am a resident also and it affects me as much as others when I pay assessments also and those assessments could end up being used by the Association having to defend itself in lawsuits for illegal actions against the residents. So my interest is on both side - BUT not about ME only ever. I adhere to their rules and regulations even IF I voted no.

I for one would like to hear some details as to your concerns.

I put more details in my question......

So more so it is - Can another board member, who has called you an infant, called you a racist, tried to shut down your voice on the board that has been spoken with business tone only - able to harass another board member basically trying to put a gag on them so the community can not be represented by them? The harassment is only being claimed on the basis that I am writing business response emails on issues in the same manner as any other board member. But because this particular board member does not like my responses - does that constitute harassment? I think not. One board member suing another for conveying business level communications while operating as their elected function on a HOA board.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Donna,
I wonder how someone like you with with ethics and an obvious repugnance for skirting the law even get on these boards.

They must have thought you to be some weak willed sycophant when the "counted" the ballots in your favor.

I have seen this several times, and I predict they will have you resigning your board soon.....like your hair was on fire.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Mike,

Not sure how to take your message.

Yes I have ethic and I took my elected and voted in by the majority, and asked to stay by the majority, very seriously as representing the community - not the board.

As for a resignation....I have considered it several times. Why? Because of the constant harassment to keep my mouth shut and let business happen even if it wasn't properly conducted.

Are you saying that a board acting like this is feasible? or that it is common? Common I could get.

I have no interest in resigning voluntarily - as my term is up in November of this year 2013. I believe I can stick it out until then and feel that it is my duty to the residents.

My recourse is to move and I am working on that currently. I will NEVER live in a townhome community again!

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Let me add - there are 5 ladies on our board. 3 very vocal, with myself being one.

The 2 in reference to my concern seem to think that serving on a board is like a ladies tea party in which all ladies stay in agreement with each other for fear they will not be popular and liked.

So when I vote no on something - a simple no - It is taken as if I am personally attacking them - even if nothing else is said - It is seen as I am not supporting the board. They think it is a all for one and one for all board.

They do not get that each board member is representing the community as the Association, not each other board member.

They do not get that in politics many times committee members do not agree with the stance of another and that voicing that disagreement is business and not personal as the representative is just speaking for their constituents.

So they lash out as me - even though I am representing the adherence to the bylaws for the residents period, nothing more, nothing less.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

John, I mentioned nothing about criminal activity. My stance is the 2 board members have implemented a parking and towing policy that is incongruent with our bylaws and potentially placing the Association in a position of paying 100K fines to the city of Houston for illegal towing procedures. They have not informed the community of their newly implemented regulations accept by piece mail - but no master document stands and as a document informing of proper procedure to adhere to the new regulations. I went on record as voting no to the newly suggested rules and regulations - because of the holes in the process and lack of proper notification to residents. Since this regulation can cause financial hardship to residents, especially when they were not notified properly of the regulations, and because the city of Houston could sue the Association for improper towing or illegal towing.

Donna does you Board have the authority to make and enforce rules and regulations on your property? Is their a set of rules and fine structure in place?

In most cases if you violate the law that would be considered a crime.

Now is the violation of the law you refer to "illegal towing"? So the fine for "illegal towing in Houston is $100,000 ???

Are the parking rules to be enforced on HOA private property? Owned by the HOA?
Then how would the city become involved?

Sounds to me like this is a confusing situation with many unanswered questions.

What is "piece mail"?
What notification is required under your documents or state law?
Does a parking problem in fact exist?
Is the Board making an honest effort to resolve this issue?
And if they do not institute this new policy how might they address the problem?

As to you concern about harassment charges being made against you I doubt that. But my guess would be if that threat does not curb your actions you might be ready to expect other consequences going forward.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

No Donna, I was not saying this is feasible. I was saying it is all too common.

HOA boards are generally run by some bully or group who do not tolerate any descent.

The lawyers and prop. managers love those kinds of boards, and will fight tooth and nail to keep them for a very simple reason...it puts large amounts of money in their pockets.

Someone like you who is trying to abide by the laws, governing documents or even fundamental principles of democracy is quickly identified as someone who is going to rock the boat, doesn't know her place ect..... you will be harassed and persecuted until you leave(sorry but I have seen it many times) .

Sad but true in these shabby private governance's called HOAs.

The truly odd thing though.....when homeowners finally have had enough and oust a corrupt board...they then take no steps to eliminate the underlying problem which allows this nonsense to happen in the first place.

And of course it is not long before it becomes another predictable rehash of the financial and legal abuse to be suffered by homeowners again.

So try this idea on your fellow board members:

Strip from the Board any rule making authority and vest it solely in the homeowners.

Strip from the Board any punitive power and vest that solely in the courts (impartial tribunals where "due process" is absolutely required)

Require the actions of the board to be made public in the "newsletter"

If you think you have problems now with the board now, just wait until they hear the heresy of attempting to make them more transparent and accountable.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 07/06/2013 1:56 PM
John, I mentioned nothing about criminal activity. My stance is the 2 board members have implemented a parking and towing policy that is incongruent with our bylaws and potentially placing the Association in a position of paying 100K fines to the city of Houston for illegal towing procedures. They have not informed the community of their newly implemented regulations accept by piece mail - but no master document stands and as a document informing of proper procedure to adhere to the new regulations. I went on record as voting no to the newly suggested rules and regulations - because of the holes in the process and lack of proper notification to residents. Since this regulation can cause financial hardship to residents, especially when they were not notified properly of the regulations, and because the city of Houston could sue the Association for improper towing or illegal towing.

Donna does you Board have the authority to make and enforce rules and regulations on your property? Is their a set of rules and fine structure in place?

This is the rub John - yes - the board does have the right as it is written in the bylaws to make, enforce rules and regulations on the property in the parking matter. It is within the fashion in which the rules and regulations have been implemented and parts of the procedures that I find to be pitfall decisions that are wide open for lawsuits. I have been trying to communicate what was too vague and potentially creating a legal hole, in which the Association could be held liable for improper business actions.

In most cases if you violate the law that would be considered a crime.

I stated that they didn't like my bringing to their attention areas of their rules and regulations that were not congruent with all laws and therefore potentially leaving the Association in a position of not adhering to all the laws stated in the Texas Towing Statute. As well, I have brought to their attention that their towing criteria if not adhered to in a consistent manner - could be riddled with prejudice grounds for a lawsuit - and the Association would NOT be the winner - as they have not covered all the proper bases. So as I said, potential legal holes. They have created "reserved" parking spots that are for a monthly rent on the property. I don't agree, but it is a legal action. They created an "extended stay" visitors parking procedure - but the criteria in which it is to be implemented is riddled with holes that anyone could bring a lawsuit against - easily. They ignore the areas I point out and even had my car towed ILLEGALLY after I voiced this concern of the written procedures. The parking and towing rules were voted in by only the board, and all of the procedures and requirements for adherence were NOT fleshed out and supplied to the community BEFORE the vote. The community was NOT notified of the vote to implement the regulations, nor were they given in a clear document. Then the board tried to vote to have them added to the bylaws - without notification to the residents. I am still waiting to see how that turns out, as I will vote no, so as to NOT make any future boards who would like to address their current parking situations- tied to this board's decision. The bylaws state the board can implement rules and regulations to cause adherence to the bylaw stated parking rules as they see fit. So nothing else needs to be legally amended which carries a cost. As well I thought the whole community is to get a vote when a board is amending the bylaws?

Now is the violation of the law you refer to "illegal towing"? So the fine for "illegal towing in Houston is $100,000 ???

The fine in Houston for illegal tow of a vehicle, on or off private property, is up to 100K per incident.

Are the parking rules to be enforced on HOA private property? Owned by the HOA?
Then how would the city become involved?

As I read the Texas Towing Statute, private property is governed by how they notify a parker of the rules and regulations for that property. If there are no signs stating these regulations so the parker can decide to break the rules or not - than it is an illegal tow. Like a shopping center lot. They have to post what things would get you towed. WE do not have signs supporting these new rules and regulations, and the tow company is towing even from people's carports. Which was NOT suppose to happen, nor can happen by Houston City Ordinance - unless the vehicle poses a danger.

Sounds to me like this is a confusing situation with many unanswered questions.

It is confusing John, and why I have been vocal in hopes to get the questions answered BEFORE things were put into "law". But that just got me heated backlash, harassment, and made very unpopular with some of the other board members, the authors of the regulations. Both on the previous board with me, and the other 2 don't know the history as their terms just started.

What is "piece mail"?

They made a flyer stating what the "extended stay visitors" rules were and posted it on fences, put in in mailboxes.

They posted in a newsletter about how to get a "reserved parking" space - but stated at the time of that posting that "Extended Stay" was for guest, visitors, family, and friends. But nothing more.

Then they sent a letter stating that the bylaw rules for visitors parking not "intended" for homeowners and that the tow company was going to begin enforcement. But not the ways to be in adherence.

When I asked if there was a master document a resident could be sent - stating all the new regulations in one spot - I was met with bitterness and "It was done, but doing the separate items". I stated that might not be the best way to make sure the Association notified owners....and Now I get threats of harassment lawsuits if I say anything more to them.

What notification is required under your documents or state law?

the notice is 48 hour notice to tow....but they are towing without giving notice because the 2 board members have given them permission to do so if any of the regulations are not followed.

Does a parking problem in fact exist?

NO - I did a study for 2 months with pictures in the morning, mid day and evening of ALL visitors spots. There was not over crowding or problem I could find. This issue began with a past board member, who is known for finding new pet projects to complain about and make the board jump to because of her past knowledge, complained for 2 years. So even though I surveyed the community and the results were No problem, I took pictures. I produced Texas Towing Ordinance documents, the Houston Towing Ordinance, the board just moves on.

Is the Board making an honest effort to resolve this issue?

John, truth be told - these 2 ladies believe they are doing good. I get their intent is good, they just can't "hear" or be with that something they have devised to address a perceived situation might need some more work.

And if they do not institute this new policy how might they address the problem?

They have already instituted this new policy. Without community vote. Now homeowners are coming to me, because they supported me in voting for me, sharing towing situations that are not on the up and up. I can't give them advice as a board member - and because they come to me - the other board member threatening harassment against me - is saying I don't support the board. To that I say, no I don't on this issue.

As to you concern about harassment charges being made against you I doubt that. But my guess would be if that threat does not curb your actions you might be ready to expect other consequences going forward.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR15 on 07/06/2013 2:23 PM
No Donna, I was not saying this is feasible. I was saying it is all too common.

HOA boards are generally run by some bully or group who do not tolerate any descent.

The lawyers and prop. managers love those kinds of boards, and will fight tooth and nail to keep them for a very simple reason...it puts large amounts of money in their pockets.

OH MY GOD MIKE...YOU ARE SO RIGHT. I never got WHY our management company would WANT to deal with a board like this, and were constantly having side conversation with me....as though they supported my views....then they would just shut up in a board meeting and let the bullying happen. I have truly sat there and taken beatings. I made a public statement in January that I held the board and the management company culpable for any and all acts of harassment, prejudice, slander or acts of malice from that point on. The management company squirmed...NOW I get it! I have served on many PROFESSIONAL boards...and I couldn't GET how a HOA board got away with such injustice.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

WOW Mike....YOU said it all..

My whole experience of this time of service to others.

There was a day I dreamt of being in politics....and this experience with the HOA board has stripped that pie eyed girls reality of truly making a difference away.

You are right - it cycles and cycles. It is horrific while still leaving me with - If not me then who? - but also the reality that I don't want to live in this moronic hell of ego driven ant rulers for the sake of justice that others won't carry for themselves.

I know what to look for now when buying a new home, of which I will do within the year. Not solely from this experience, I have wanted to move for years to a bigger home. And yet I know - boards change at least every 3 years. So staying knowledgeable about your community is important. Being this intimate ever again with my community - I don't know - I don't know if my sanity could stomach it.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Amazing isn't it?

This whole HOA thing is a monumental parasitic paradigm in housing, designed to funnel our savings and even the equity in our homes into the "service providers" pockets.

Why do you think the CAI (Community Associations Institute) have 57 chapters across the country (from their own website) which lobby the State legislatures into keeping the status quo of no oversight and consumer protection law to protect homeowners?

I have read that it may be the most significant consumer rip off in our country's history.

So if you feel like you are swimming upstream trying to protect homeowners from this system....

Well you are just starting to realize what is really going on.

The good news is that this pathology is not only being recognized, but that the legislatures (of at least some states) are being forced to turn away CAI money and start protecting homeowners by passing consumer protection law in this area.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Donna:

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Sounds like am complicated and difficult situation.

Under many By-Laws, not sure if this is the case with you the Board can modify the Rules and Regulations without a vote of the homeowners. They have that authority.

The illegal towing fine of $100,000 talk about a law I would like to know how that ever passed!

So in Houston on private property if you tow a vehicle in a manner the city determines to be illegal the city can issue a $100,000 fine.

Gives me another reason never to move to Houston!

Now in most cases the majority rules on HOA Boards. A vote was taken you disagreed, your NO vote was recorded and that's about all you can do.

I can see the pickle you are in. Some homeowners supported you for election now they feel you should act on their wishes and demands. Puts you in the middle.

Not quite sure if there actually exists all the legal liabilities you seem to have found with the new parking and towing regulations. And I have to wonder in reality just how many residents might pursue legal action as a result of these parking rules. My guess time will tell.

Now as to Mike. Mike is winding down a 10 year crusade against his own HOA. Similar to your situation Mike disagreed with the actions of his Board. He tried to force them to do things HIS way. After 10 years of legal fighting in the courts, $40,000 paid to lawyers who failed in representing him properly, Mike is at the fianl stage and things don't look good.

Now of course this does not prevent Mike from offering advice to you and anyone else foolish enough to listen as to how they can pursue conflicts with their Boards.

Just in the real world if it never worked for Mike chances are his advice won't work for you.

But if you think Mike is am source for agreement and support I am sure he has hours of advice and wisdom to share with you that just never served him all that well.

Mike has taken only his own advice for the last 10 years and seems to have fallen flat on his face. My guess his advice will do the same for you.

Good Luck!

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Thanks John, a fuller perspective does lend toward clearer consideration.

Appreciated.

You think I should just let my term ride out and never say another word? or resign, so as to not be co-mingled with their decisions - even if I have made my position clear - to avoid the hardship of money not well spent - of my own?

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

I can see the pickle you are in. Some homeowners supported you for election now they feel you should act on their wishes and demands. Puts you in the middle.

Not quite John.

I just stated that homeowners share with me their complaints. When I am in a board meeting, I vote on the feedback the community has given in the best business manner it can be obtained.

I did state that the other board members sided with a past board member and the management tends to cater to her every whim. That is how the parking issue started - she hated a past board member and would do anything to make him conform to a rule - she wanted his car towed as he used his garage as storage and parked in visitors.

I did not bend to her demands. And knew from her own lips the malice behind her request. That now the rest of the board has made all homeowners conform to.

I don't live in Nazi Germany - I live in a townhome community - that feels like it has hints of Nazi Germany if gone unchecked.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Donna, not sure how old you are. Myself I am past the half way point.

My advice to you pick your battles wisely.
Decide to expend you short time here on things valuable enough to tkae up some of that time.

Sounds to me like you have some personalities involved down there "deep in the heart of Texas"
sorry but I heard that song in my head!

Don't feel special we have them here too.

Some Board members get to the point where they use their positions to serve their agenda. Come hell or high water.

You voted NO on principle and because of concerns you had. Now can you continue to fight this fight? Sure but my question is at what cost and with what end goal in mind.

I approach such situations in life from the end and go back to the beginning..

How do I get to the end I want from the place I now find myself? And is this going to be worth my effort?

What do I wish to accomplish
What price might I pay?
What toll might this take on ME?
In the end will this be a short term victory or will what I have worked for last forever?

In your case from the little I know you might be in for quite a fight. Along with much work if in fact you succeed. Is that the road you wish to go down at this point in your life?

I had lunch the other day with a young man maybe 20 years younger then I. Successful, wealthy, owns several businesses. Over the last few years he has become active in local politics. Got himself into a position of having lots of influence on many people. At lunch he informed me he was stepping down. Long story short about two years ago I warned him about the consequences of his becoming involved with folks like this. In the end at some point things will get dirty. You will come to the point where you get close to the line I have kept in sight for years. The line between right and wrong. My advice to him then don't even get close
because sometimes close is to far.

My advice 2 years ago wife, kids, family, friends, and saving the world way at the bottom of the list. They can only bring you DOWN to their level and then they own you. He could never bring them up to his level they just don't have that in them.

So he says to me, you were like a Father giving advice to his son. I was just not able to understand completely what you were telling me. But I listened to your warnings. Now I understand what you were saying and you were 100% right. It's time for me to get out.

Husband?, kids?, family, friends. Savings the world is a full time job.

Hopefully you have better things to do. I hope so....

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

You have to love some of the characters who post on this website.

Like several others, the capacity for obtuse, sophistic bullshit is amazing.

Which prompts the real question here:

Is this website comprised of shills for the lawyer or prop. manager co's trying to prop up this insanely stupid system?

(on the premise that we are insanely stupid enough to swallow it)

I certainly hope so.

Because otherwise these people are selling out their homeowners neighbors for the abysmally pathetic reason of justifying their

own sense of self importance and power as

"HOA grand pupas"

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR15 on 07/06/2013 4:31 PM
You have to love some of the characters who post on this website.

Like several others, the capacity for obtuse, sophistic bullshit is amazing.

Which prompts the real question here:

Is this website comprised of shills for the lawyer or prop. manager co's trying to prop up this insanely stupid system?

(on the premise that we are insanely stupid enough to swallow it)

I certainly hope so.

Because otherwise these people are selling out their homeowners neighbors for the abysmally pathetic reason of justifying their

own sense of self importance and power as

"HOA grand pupas"

Funny Mike after all this time you still come back to this site.

Slow day up there or is reality starting to set in.

After a while Mike it is no longer necessary to warn people from listening to your recycled hogwash.

Your endless babbling does the trick on its own.

Just how will you explain all your personal failure over the past 10 years?

You know all those court cases you told yourself you were going to win just how do you swallow the fact NONE of it ever happened?

ZIPPO Mike that is what you have accomplished......

All your BS turned into nothing.

But by all means keep foaming at the mouth. Seems that is all you have left.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

You bet!

And you keep selling out your own neighbors for fun and profit.

"Like a father to me".....ROFL!

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Donna,

Sorry for the divergence from the topic.

I have attached a link to a position paper written by an HOA treasurer several years ago. This paper went viral for reasons you will soon see.

This guy reminds me of you. Someone who "got involved" thinking it was the right thing to do and that he might be able to make a difference.

His take on the whole HOA thing is very acute and informative.

Let me know what you think!

http://pvtgov.org/pvtgov/downloads/hoa_treasurer.pdf

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR15 on 07/06/2013 6:26 PM
Donna,

Sorry for the divergence from the topic.

I have attached a link to a position paper written by an HOA treasurer several years ago. This paper went viral for reasons you will soon see.

This guy reminds me of you. Someone who "got involved" thinking it was the right thing to do and that he might be able to make a difference.

His take on the whole HOA thing is very acute and informative.

Let me know what you think!

http://pvtgov.org/pvtgov/downloads/hoa_treasurer.pdf

Yeah Mike reduced to providing links to like minded folks such as you.

What was it almost one dozen people supporting YOUR efforts in Ma?

Quite a following.

No matter what sort of competition Mike 0-4 is nothing to brag about. In fact might be time to hang up the HOA bashing career. Tough to pass yourself off as some living legend when all you have ever done was fail.

How about posting the link for that $250 mail order legal course you swore was all you needed to take this matter on? Sure a lot of folks would like to throw their money away too.

Guess in the end it was you who got slapped...

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Hey Jon,

There you are again with your nasty personal attacks!

No doubt the master blue print for your board meetings (you must be a President of an HOA)

Very effective way of keeping those 'disgruntled' homeowners from asking silly questions like:

Where is my money going?

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

But more to the point of this thread.

Donna, this is EXACTLY the kind of treatment in store for you as you attempt to derail the service provider's

gravey train.

A tried and true formula of chasing away anyone with any ethics/intelligence.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am sorry but I don't believe in playing "Victim". It sickens me to hear "Oh woo is me, my HOA has done this to me". Well in my book there is probably a reason. Educate yourself on it. It may be the wrong reason but there is a reason... That is why one brings out the CC&R's/by-laws/Articles of incorporation/ACC documentation and uses them. Never go to a meeting without them nor not refer to them.

If your HOA doesn't do that, then make a change. Simply bring the latest and greatest copy to the meeting and plop it down on the table. No if's, and's, or but's or going to your state legislature. EVERYTHING you need is in those documents. Learn and teach others to read and use them. Otherwise your just as guilty for getting what you want out of your HOA by not following or reading them as well.

As for me... I'd rather eat "Crow" than blowing my nose on a hanky...

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaW10 on 07/06/2013 3:24 PM

You think I should just let my term ride out and never say another word? or resign, so as to not be co-mingled with their decisions - even if I have made my position clear - to avoid the hardship of money not well spent - of my own?

Donna,

If it were me, I would finish the term. I would minimize the number of e-mails (perhaps that is the issue vs. what the e-mails contain) and continue to raise concerns when concerns are needed. Perhaps, over time, you will have others see the same concerns you see. Perhaps, by serving your term, you will discourage those who are causing the concerns to not run again.

Changes happen slowly. Sometimes years. But changes can happen and you are in the best position by serving on the board to try and make some of those changes.

Therefore, as Jon said, pick your battles as this can lessen your stress while serving in the position and continue to try and correct what you can.

Hope this helps,

Tim

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Melissa,

Interesting you see me as a coming off as a victim mentality. I know our bylaw backwards and forwards. I started a community group before getting on the board to do just what you state - to educate the community that was coming to me on a regular basis with concern, as I am a trusted neighbor, so THEY knew their rights.

Not playing a victim though does NOT negate the fact that I am getting slammed left and right for holding this board to LEGAL and JUST acts. That is WHY I am getting the backlash - because the OTHER board members do NOT know how to READ a legal document. They pull out only sections and make rules and regulations off of just that section not paying attention to the LEGAL definitions of the document flow throughout the document.

Case in point on their parking and towing regulations just recently imposed.

Case in point that one of the current board members when they first got onto the board - spent a year getting the board and management company to deal with HER foundation - although the bylaws clearly state that the foundations belong to the homeowners and are private property. The bylaws even give the method in which a homeowner deal with their foundations that are joined by a party wall. The steps - notify your neighbor of your foundation repair, ask that they sign a hold harmless waiver, then proceed with your repair. This board member instead made the board and management company handle that whole process for her. She had a legitimate lawsuit against her neighbor that was not signing the waiver - as the damage to the board members home was getting worse. Any court would have found in her favor but she didn't want to spend HER money on a lawyer or time in small claims court.

This stuff happens all the time - I am the "whistleblower" per say - bringing out that there can not be "gray" lines to how the bylaws are read. That they can NOT be read just to benefit a board member.

So Melissa - all I can say is wow. Are these forums just filled with people who are bitter and biting at each other - just like the HOA boards? John and Mike, not you come in and start making rash assumption of my character? Yep, just like the HOA board - belittle and be bitter.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Tim,

Thanks - that is what I am thinking as well. My goal is NOT to cause my family any more harm. Continue down my path to move - saving my money for that and not legal fees.

I appreciate your civil and conscientious response.

You response did help. That has been my biggest battle - fight the injustices, or get that some are not mine to fight and let them go...with hopes the people of the community stand up for themselves.

Not my job anymore to try and save the whole world - that was so when I was younger - I thought! LOL

Donna

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

So let me throw this at you all.

This is the extended stay visitors dictate they are trying to get added as a permanent amendment to the bylaws - without a vote of the community - which the board can do because of the language in the bylaws.

The document is at the bottom of the message.

My problems with this becoming a amendment are:

1. We have many elderly here who have home health care nurses visit everyday. The towing company can tow if they see a car parked on the property for 48 hours. Now this is not defined as 48 CONSECUTIVE hours and NOT MOVED - just that they tow company sees the vehicle more than 2 days on the property. So if the tow company came at 9am every day when the worker is visiting - and the car is there everyday because of their work for an elderly person - the tow company has been instructed to tow by the other board members. I have tried to get the other board members to see that the word CONSECUTIVE needs to be added - but they refuse to hear me.

2. Our management company is SLOW to act on requests - so trying to get an extended stay visitors tag is next to impossible or very difficult and can NEVER be last minute. So now residents MUST plan well in advance - like a month if they are going to have a visitors that might stay more than 48 hours. YET none of this has been addressed on HOW to have it run smoothly.

3. The tow company is using the other board members directive and towing even from private property when it was stated clearly in a meeting by the other board members and the tow company that NO VEHICLES would be towed from private property, under carports or from garages - yet they are now. THIS IS ILLEGAL - but the other board members are standing by the tows and stating they are legal. EVEN THOUGH if they were all called into court they would be lying if they said this was made clear to the residents, as it was actually decided by them at 2 board meetings that this would NOT happen. Of course these conversations WERE not put into the meeting minutes by the management company. Another objection I have with this board - records that do not reflect all that is said in a meeting.

4. Putting the board in the position of approving each and every request for a visitor's tag - opens the board up to prejudice claims - and the way the other board member operate - there would definitely be legal grounds one could find to claim prejudice decision making on behalf of those board member. I have suggested ways for them to make sure that all requests are honor equally but they won't listen to me.

5. Making this a filed amendment ties the hands of future boards to these rules, unless they spend money to have them removed. The bylaws clearly state that on parking situations the board had the right to enforce as they see fit at the time. Adding this as an amendment removes that option from other boards unless they spend money to remove that amendment and I think that is not proper.

So I am sitting back and letting the community at this point address these holes and concerns with the other board members who THINK they know just what they are doing to create a fix, while actually creating a HUGE problem filled with legal holes and ripe for lawsuits.

NOW there is my concern - lawsuits equals money spent that DIDN'T have to be spent if a document was clear, legal and fair by the law. Which is why I am moving per say - before they bankrupt the community with lawsuits.

One extended visitors pass per unit.
Request one week but, no more than two weeks.
Extended visitor pass is issued every 90 days.
Incomplete or altered visitors permit is not valid and will be towed.

1. Contact Randall Management 713-728-1126, Miguel Trevino, [email protected]
2. Complete the Residential Information, License number, Make, Model, and Color of vehicle.
3. Provide a copy of ID with permanent / current address.
4. Extended stay is anything passes the 48 hour limit and each application is decided on an individual basis by the board.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Your missing my point. My point is that if you bring a copy of your rules and refer to them, there is no room for argument. It gets people in line when you institute a policy that says that when responding or making a decision, a quote from those rules must be referred. It forces people to read the rules and follow them.

Are they up for interpretation? Yes, even the bible is up for that... However, if you differ to your rules and those rules don't work, then you all can initiate changing those rules or establishing new policies in your by-laws.

It takes years to make change in a HOA. The first year in office was just fixing my former president's issues he caused. It wasn't until mid-way through my second and then finally third year I made headway. Which by the way I measured my success by making sure there were "Bigger fish" in our pond who wanted my position. When I took office no one wanted to attend a meeting nor did they want to be on the board. When I left we had too many people wanting to be on the board and lots of people in attendance at meetings. That in a HOA terms is success... Less apathy...

Former HOA President

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Note: We are a 198 unit townhouse complex. We have 98 visitors parking spots - most of which are not used day in and day out.

We have one side of the complex that has street parking + visitors parking, in less numbers, and one side that has NO street parking and tons of visitors spots. On my side, the side with no street parking, we have no choice but to be held to these rules, while the other side has street parking available so their guest or visitors can come anytime they want and stay as long as they want. My side can not and we have tons of open spaces that are never used.

The parking problem that slightly existed for a while, was on the side with street parking - go figure.

One fix we did was to send letters to the street parkers side stating that garages were for homeowner parking use and to clean out their garages to use for parking - not visitors parking. This worked for a period of time. I felt we could keep focusing on that side and sending letters when necessary but the other board members went with this sweeping dictate to all to conform.

So the whole property suffers - even though their options are different - because of power hungry and poor business minded members.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Melissa,

Don't you think that I have done that? Of course I have. I have lived here 17 years. I know the bylaws back and forth and have POINTED out the points of the bylaws the other board members are not following properly. They ignore it and when my voice is ONE and their voices are 2, with a 5 member board - I get voted down and no one pays attention to what the bylaws state.

Again, they like to pick out only parts and use them - neglecting that a legal document is read from first page affecting all pages after.

So in my case - by being the one who stands up for the bylaws - I get incredible backlash in harassing manners from the other members because I do work at holding them to the bylaws.

Glad you had such success. I had hoped to of had the same. Unfortunately it takes people with integrity in a leadership position to have this and this board has none. They do not see a president as a leader - they see no title as a facilitator role to keep meeting in line, behavior in check, etc. They all just do as they please.

In my case, my years of legal background serves no purpose for them accept to create fodder for ridicule of me - at meetings when points are brought out that are legal gray lines or out right not legal.

They have emergency meetings in which they schedule when they KNOW I can not attend. They have voted me out of my vice=president seat - which doesn't matter to me - but all because I was pointing out some areas in which the language was not thorough enough for a legal dictate for their actions. I try to keep the Association from the possibility of a lawsuit for cost savings - but they would rather carelessly plunge ahead with no legal thought at all. Knowing that the management company will back them - as the management company has expressed to me that they just want to KEEP their contract no matter what.

I am not allowed to let the community KNOW what is going on without threat of a lawsuit from the board - even on publicly open information - as every time I communicate even a meeting date to the community - they backlash me with I need to NOT communicate individually with homeowners.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

The board has also struck out on me by refusing to make repairs on my home in which I brought to the boards attention, and management companies attention in October of 2012 at our meeting, where I stepped out and spoke as a resident about my atrium wall.

We have brick walls at the front of some homes, mine has one, that are the Associations property to maintain. Mine was affected by some foundation work the Association had done - without obtaining a waiver from me, and now the wall is cracking and becoming weak in 3 spots, leaning in towards my front windows and not allowing my front gate to open at all. I brought this to the board in October and November of 2012. I sent pictures in March 2013 documenting the continued crumbling of the wall, again in May and now am about to send more as I am highly concerned this wall is going to fall and crash into my living room.

They ignore my requests. I have heard NOTHING from management or the board.

Tell me - when do I get to have the same consideration as either another board member, or resident? How long is a reasonable amount of time for a repair to be made by an Association? And how could this not be seen as harassment and prejudice toward me because the 2 board members who rule the board are NOT allowing my repairs?

I have resolved that when I move I will have the repairs to the exterior of my home fixed on my own dime then submit the bill to the Association. As I can't sell the home for it's full value with these repairs going ignored.

And all of this Melissa - because this board wants to retaliate against me for bringing to light that they are not following the bylaws properly. So how does your method work in this instance? When I have done this.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Hard to MAKE people follow a rule/bylaw IF they just choose to ignore it - even when I employ the method you state - showing the rules and dictates of the bylaws - then they look away and bash me instead.

They figure if they just keep my eye off of things - all is good for them. See the problem?

I am a person of justice...sometimes it doesn't work as cleanly as you would like and you have to walk away. There is NO governing body for me to go to and say "Hey, this board is not following the rules properly"...now is there. There is no governing body above the board to make them do the right thing.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

And to all, I really would like to know how others have addressed situations such as these.

I truly don't want to participate in the fodder that seems to be present on this site that some seem to have history with concerning others.

I just want to live here, do good in my elected position, and NOT be harassed or denied maintanence to my home - without having to file a lawsuit. I know exactly what a lawsuit does to the Association - takes money from my very own pocket in both ways - the attorney I have to pay for, and the attorney the Association pays to defend the lawsuit.

BUT there has got to be a way to NOT be under constant denial of services and be ignored for the legal points I bring to light for the sake of all.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaW10 on 07/07/2013 9:57 AM
And to all, I really would like to know how others have addressed situations such as these.

I truly don't want to participate in the fodder that seems to be present on this site that some seem to have history with concerning others.

I just want to live here, do good in my elected position, and NOT be harassed or denied maintanence to my home - without having to file a lawsuit. I know exactly what a lawsuit does to the Association - takes money from my very own pocket in both ways - the attorney I have to pay for, and the attorney the Association pays to defend the lawsuit.

BUT there has got to be a way to NOT be under constant denial of services and be ignored for the legal points I bring to light for the sake of all.

Donna:

I attempted to send you a heads up about Mike because you seemed to be willing to board the crazy train with him. In the many posts Mike has made here he makes bold claims and promises but in the end NONE have ever in fact taken place.

Like a snake oil salesman he promises people like you HE has just what you need. If you follow his advice and suggested actions. One being SUE SUE SUE.

Now sometimes when dealing with mental midgets such as Mike you need to go down to their level. Something MY guess you are either uncomforatble with or unable to do. Myself I have no problem calling a spade a spade.
Or in Mike's case a fraud a fraud.

But seems now you ARE comfortable with lumping me in with the likes of Mike. To be honest quite and insult. My other option allow you to swallow the crap Mike passes off as reality. Perhaps, I should have let you become one of Mike's followers.

So now as I have become part of the "fodder" I will leave you with your ability to filter and judge what others might offer you as useful information. Perhaps you might reconsider Mike even as a useful resource. I am sure he can do for you what he was unable to do for himself. Desparate people looking for answers tend to make easy targets.

Sometimes when you go out of your way to help people they really can't understand what has taken place. And worse they lack any appreciation of the efforts made on their behalf.

Carry on Donna...............

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

John,

My statement was more from a side of - Hey - let's not use my questions for fodder to advance others dislike or history with each other.

Not to bunch you in - but to separate me from it - as I DO NOT have the history to go off of.

I thank you kindly for the heads up and as I saw more revealed I am more than capable of discerning on my own what lies where.

I just saw the same mentalities that seem to rule HOA's happening in the exchanges. One stating X and the other berating back - even if the points were on point.

There seems to be some pretty rash judgements of others made here. I post my concerns and it turned into a back and forth rally among those who have knowledge or history of each other - trying to throw me left or right when all I wanted was sound reasonable camaraderie in dealing with issues.

Case in point. I knew nothing of Mike and his past. I took his information at face value and got the tone in which it was given. He has some (emphasize SOME) valid points about authority and abuse on HOA boards. Then I took your information and saw it's valid points and saw that Mike was seen as an outcast for his stance and gave validity to his history on the site and figured there must be some reason others are judging him and left it at that.

Then Melissa comes in and her tone was a tad bit condescending in basic information being shared about bylaws, assuming I was so naive that I hadn't done that ending with her results of her HOA success as though I had done something wrong or was ignorant to and THAT must be why I was having these situations. And yet I still find her contribution of value - even if not congruent with what I had written before - If she had read the whole thread. I would have welcomed an exchange with her if it had been from a place of wanting to delve into the reason for my concerns instead of "this is what is wrong - do it" without checking with me first to see if I had done such. Assumptions are a terrible place to live in and a terrible place to speak from. I still welcome her contributions - just hope she steps back a bit to see that not all the up and up information she is sharing WORKS the way she thinks they are suppose to work - but gets caught in gray line areas.

Point is - maybe even on here - some might stop before making assumptions and do as YOU did JOHN and ASK for more detail or clarification BEFORE making assumptions.

I am THAT kind of FAIR minded person.....allowing each to show their character and allowing the individuals dealing with a person to discern their own view of that character.

John, you and one other person have given the BEST advice to my questions so far. That I appreciate.

And in closing....I am open to all suggestions - even the ones that come at me with "you must be wrong, stupid, or not doing something right". Somewhere in those answers there still might be information that can assist me without going to extremes.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why do people keep bringing in "Legal" in terms of a HOA. Seriously, it's HOA rules. There are no "HOA police". The police or legal enforcers are you the board/HOA members. If someone wants to go out and hire them there "Legal people with a fancy piece of paper" so be it. STOP trying to "prevent" a lawsuit. It's just a waste of time and money.If someone wants to sue, then tell them to go ahead. It's cheaper for the HOA to counter-sue than to bring a lawsuit anyways. Always doing the "legal" thing can get quite annoying as a HOA is to be run by what/how the members want it to be.

As far as your situation with the parking. You have yourselves a crooked tow truck company to deal with. Watch a few episodes of People's court. It won't take you long to figure out that your problem lays with the tow company. They make money off of towing and by using your own rules to do so.

What I would do? If your stuck with having a tow company, then bid the job out. Bring in some tow competition and stop the crap that is going on. If there is a lawsuit to be made of this... It may just be with your towing company of choice. Which has probably protected themselves soo "legally" you all can't touch them. Which is where your real issue lies. Finding out your tow truck laws and how to win against a tow truck company. Change your focus on what the real "Legal" issue is. It's in the REAL world with your tow and city laws...

Former HOA President

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Melissa,

Asking me what has been done might serve to save you some time in writing.

A) The rest of the board VOTED in this tow company contract. I voted NO.
B) The board is directing the tow company - not the other way around. The tow company is FOLLOWING the other board members orders.
C) I have brought to the board and shared with the community ALL of the Texas Tow Ordinances as well as the City of Houston's. They, the board, ignore the potential pitfalls of their regulations.
D) I have shared with the community how to process a claim for an illegal tow for the City of Houston.

These are the only things I can do...and you are right. I have no choice now but to sit back and watch the community uproar, that could have been avoided, watch as the lawsuits come in and the money to fight the cases flow out of our budget and still endure the harassment of the other board members because I have notified them of these Ordinances and holes in their regulations and the implementation of those regulations by the tow company.

I have told them by giving the tow company this amount of power they are asking the fox to watch the hen house - WITH US as the LEGALLY bound entity that can be sued for their actions.

Many times people are just intelligent enough to be dangerous...and that is the case I have here with the 2 board members driving this campaign. They know just enough and care just enough to do things that SEEM like the right thing to do - but HATE if anyone brings up a point that could better their plan. They take any additional information or correction as personal attacks.

Ever deal with a teenager? You know those years when we all KNOW it all...well that is the mentality I am dealing with - you tell the teen if they do X this is the consequence. They do it anyway, sometimes getting caught or times not. So the teen THINKS they are RIGHT for all decisions just BECAUSE they didn't get caught every time.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Donna, I completely agree with Tim. Serve your term, try to do what's in your docs & state law. Sometimes this'll mean that you make a motion. Even if there is no vote on it, your motion needs to be recorded in the minutes.

With Tim, I too think that your emails to directors need to stop. Whatever the topics are, they should be on agendas & discussed in meetings. If they are personnel matters involving other directors, place the topics on an excutive session agenda (depending on what TX permits)

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Thanks Carol...

I never thought about making a motion for the purposes of it being record even if all decide not to vote on it, or vote it down.

This would assist in making sure it is in the meeting minutes, as the management company produces those and I have had a problem with the fact they do not record all topics discussed for the record.

I will stop all emails to the directors and just function in the board meetings with all things being recorded there. I just want out from under the "we are going to get your for harassment because you are sending business emails to us" stance.

I know that a court would rule in my favor when documents were reviewed - BUT I don't want that headache in the first place. I don't have the professional and personal time to sit in court or to spend addressing silly allegations.

Thanks! I appreciate you guidance - truly. That is what I am looking for the proper stance that will keep me as effective in my role as possible without causing my life to become one big battle against those that think they rule all. I trust the community will begin to speak out on their own after I stop speaking for them and putting myself in the hot seat.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Donna

Candidly I can see it now when you come to a meeting. Sigh...sigh..."our play lawyer" is here to remind us of how we operate illegally.

Nothing personal, but this approach could get tiresome very quickly.

The two professions I have had the most trouble with serving on BOD's with are lawyers and teachers. The lawyers are scared to make a move without legal advice. The teachers want to treat/control the owners like school children.

I think you need to look inward and ask yourself if you are "playing lawyer".

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

John,

I have played open hearted citizen, bring the solution - not just the problem, teacher at times, and lawyer at times.

Please, how crass to speak down to an important function that all on a board should play at any given time when necessary for balance.

Just because I found myself in a place of searching for how to keep the residents rights intact currently doesn't make me the always lawyer.

Nor did it make me the environmentalist in my first year when I proposed a solution to lighting by using solar lights since our electrical underground system was old and in need of replacing at a high cost, and the city couldn't find the maps of the electrical lines buried.

I played the social gatherer when I participated fully in bringing together the community for it's first ever community picnic.

You get the picture.

I don't understand the level of tones some of you are taking, they are very accusatory. And yet, thanks to some who get I just wrote in here to find out how to be reasonable in a situation and keep from causing discourse to myself and to others.

Carol and Tim - thank you kindly for the suggestions to be able to be as effective as possible, stay within my principles to adhere to what is right by the law, and how to posture myself to keep me from being the focus so the message can be heard, if not now, at least documented.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Ouch.

Did I get thrown under the bus for my observation of how routinely dysfunctional and abusive HOAs are to homeowners?

All due to the lack of consumer protection laws....and more important....the absence of any real enforcement of the laws in

these places.

All of which greatly adds to the "bottom line" of the service providers?

Of course this is an unpopular opinion on this site! Of course some on this site will personaly attack me for them!

One of the things you will certainly learn if you continue to try to "do the right thing" in your HOA.....

Is that you better develope a very thick skin.

Nobody likes to have their gravey train derailed.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Which whether you know it or not....

Is exactly how your efforts are being seen (by the board members and Prop. Manager that is)

The homeowners are the only ones on your side, and this corrupt system has, by design, rendered them powerless.

Worse, it has rendered them vulnerable....which is why they will melt into the shadows rather than risk the wrath

of your pathological dictator (almost every HOA has one) when you need them to stand up for themselves.

The risk to their financial security, and even the equity in their homes is far too great.

MikeR15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 389

Posted:

Donna,
Do you remember the mythological figure Sisyphus?

Pushing a tremendous burden, always uphill, to only lose all gains and start again?

What is the burden that you have taken to this website seeking “advice” for?

That your HOA does not abide the Law??? Or fundamental governing principles???

Is this some complex issue requiring reams of obtuse and incomprehensible responses?

I will put it this way:
If a used car dealer willfully violates the law….there are reams of consumer law that will come down on him like a ton of bricks.

Yet here we are in our homes…..exponentially more valuable than a used car….and there is little you can do about your problem….AND THIS IS NO ACCIDENT.

The folks on this website are shills for the ONLY folks who benefit from the virtual absence of HOA consumer protection law. And they will fight tooth and nail to prevent them from happening.

And for this observation, I will get from them the typical response of abuse and personal attack (reminds me of every board meeting I have ever watched on YouTube) from these folks who are selling out their own neighbors for fun and profit and want to continue to do this for as long as they can.

Which hopefully is NOT going to be too much longer!

ErikaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Hi Donna,

I really feel for you. I have been in the same situation. However, I have found someone who lives here in our neighborhood who knows how to play the "game".

First, I suggest you read all you can about "manipulation". Google "how to not get manipulated" and read an ebook on amazon called "Dark persuasion techniques" by Charles Steed. When you read these, you will see how the manager has been manipulating you and your board. It was very eye opening to me.

The neighbor helping me out opened my eyes that the manager was manipulating me. I didn't see it before he pointed it out. Then I read these articles and the book and was in awe.

I suggest that listen to Carol and Tim who are great. There advice will help you.

If you want to make any change, you have to stop emailing and befriend the other board members. Go to each one separately in private and ask them questions that make it seem like you are looking for them to find the solution. Make everything seem like it was their ideas. This way when you get to the meeting, and they are already invested in their ideas because they feel like they came up with it, the manager will not be able to dissuade them into what the manager wants. If the problem starts with that old board member, talk with that person privately and see if you can lead them to a solution that seemed like their idea but that is legal.

People don't want to be told what to do or that they are doing wrong. So go to it another way. Do it in a friendly manner.

Also, don't try to rationalize with a manipulator because it doesn't work. They are very good at twisting the truth to their benefit and confusing people further.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Donna,
My problem was not as severe as yours, but I did try to inform the Board of what our state laws were and what our documents stated. For a while I felt as though I was swimming upstream.

Then an owner got voted on the Board agreed with me on most items and it was easier to stand up for what I felt was right.

We had a Vice President at one time that didn't know our reserve fund was for capital expenses.

The Presdent who just resigned due to health reasons thought we could use our reserve fund to buy one of the empty units.

In the past (Before I became a Board member) the Board made decisions they had no authority to make. The decisions "amended" our documents. THis was being done when we were told our documents could not be changed. Of course our documents were not amended by a simple Board vote.

Our current President and myself have a goal of making things simpler for future Board members.

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Bonnie,

Thank you for being empathic by your own experience of what I might be going through. I have worked at coming from every angle.....

I am an executive coach & life coach, on top of I have built many boards, and have facilitated coaching many volunteers through over 20+ years in the non-profit industry. I can honestly say that being on this board has been the ONLY team of people that I have ever felt a failure at being effective in.

Some of the advice has already proven helpful and much more calming as a stance for me. Just at the last board meeting - I was not only verbally assaulted, a board member stepped into the resident role and began making allegations about me (as a resident) which was riddled with information only a board member would know, and was so twisted it was horrific to sit and listen to. I requested to have a rebuttal and each other board member said it wasn't a court and I needed to not take more time.

I don't have anyone that has come onto the board that is a civilized ally. I truly have never had dealings with people of this level of gang mentality.

Tell me more about how a board can not MAKE an amendment to the bylaws by just board vote alone? A past board member mentioned that at the last meeting as a resident, and I have read some about it - but not enough to know if these other board members who are voting in a few amendments that are severely changing out property bylaws are legal or not - I would like to know. Not much I can do - accept alert the community after I have moved - the retaliation for truth here can be brutal.

Regards,
Donna

DonnaW10 (Texas)
Posts: 26

Posted:

Erika,

I have truly taken heed to Carol and Tim's advice. Hopefully over time it will squelch the personal attacks.

As for the manipulation....you certainly hit it on the head. But I would be a fool to step foot in either of these ladies homes or have private conversation with them. They have proven time and again, no matter what they say in private conversation to me, their ideas or views, they change them when they are together. It is a game I can't win or fight. As well they both have strong passionate behaviors that can edge on unstable.

And I don't live in a world that caters to manipulation...so I am best served doing the rest of my term the best I can....and moving. I have wanted to move for 15 years....had small businesses I was growing, got hit by the mortgage crunch - but ready now.....and I wanted to move for a bigger home - not to run from this board.

But it sure will be nice to hopefully land with a HOA I have checked the record on, has a higher level of mentality...and law.

Regards,
Donna

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Tell me more about how a board can not MAKE an amendment to the bylaws by just board vote alone? A past board member mentioned that at the last meeting as a resident, and I have read some about it - but not enough to know if these other board members who are voting in a few amendments that are severely changing out property bylaws are legal or not - I would like to know. Not much I can do - accept alert the community after I have moved - the retaliation for truth here can be brutal.

Donna,

I don't think any Board vote that "amends" the documents would be considered legal.
The documents should state how they can be amended. Most items in our documents take 2/3 of the memberships approval before they can be amended. One article takes 100% approval.

A few years ago the Board at that time voted to "lower the age of residency to 50". Since this is a senior community we can not lower the age below 55.
At another time the board voted to change the word "register" to "apply" New owners are to register with the Secretary and apply with the Secretary.

Needless to say, the current Board is ignoring previous Board votes that "amended" the documents for two reasons. They are in my view point "illegal" and even if they had been voted on by the membership the amendments were never filed at the courthouse.

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