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StevenC3 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I am the president of our HOA and I am fairly new to the position. We have 31 condo units in our HOA, so it is fairly small. One of our owners has a problem with their garage door. There is a broken mid-door hinge that has caused the lower section of the door to become bent. The owner wants the HOA to repair the garage door because it is their contention that it is part of the Common Elements. My initial thought is that the outside of the garage door is the responsibility of the HOA because it is part of the Common Elements, but the use of the door is a Limited Common Element and is therefore under the responsibility of the Condo Owner to maintain and repair the mechanical workings of the door. However, what about the damaged door itself? If a section of the door or the entire door has to be replaced, is that the Condo Owners responsibility or the HOA's responsibility? Where are the divisions of responsibility with regard to a garage door?

Thanks
JamesG (Connecticut)
Posts: 83
Posted:
You will need a careful reading of your documents to ascertain what is defined as the unit (owner responsibility) and the common elements (association responsibility). In our association the garage door inner workings (tracks, opener, etc.) are regarded as part of the unit. The door itself is a common element.

Limited common elements are still common elements, just with the fact that they are reserved for private use by the unit owner. These components must still be maintained by the association.

Jim
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
As someone said, read your documents. In one townhouse HOA I was a member of, the outside garage doors were rotting. It was the HOA's responsibility and the HOA was replacing them. That said, if the inner working of the garage door (opener, rails, hinges, etc.) failed, they were the responsibility of townhome owner.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
As someone said, read your documents.

In one townhouse HOA I was a member of, the outside garage doors were rotting. It was the HOA's responsibility and the HOA was replacing them. That said, if the inner working of the garage door (opener, rails, hinges, etc.) failed, they were the responsibility of townhome owner.

In my present HOA (standalone patio homes), the association is responsible for all home exterior shell maintenance thus the exterior only of the garage door as above.

One neighbor hit/dented his garage door. He claimed under our agreement the HOA should pay for the repair. He had to be reminded the Covenants say the association is responsible for "normal wear and tear", not damage.

StevenC3 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The documents are somewhat vague, however they do require that the owner is responsible for maintenance and repair of limited common elements. In this case, there is damage to the actual lower section of the door. It is bent in a couple of places. There is a mid-point hinge that is broken. The question for me is whether the broken hinge caused the damage to the lower section of the door. I would normally expect that the repair or replacement of the door movement mechanisms such as the spring, rollers, guides, etc., are the responsibility of the owner. But in this case, there is actual damage to the door itself that may require replacement of a section of the door. The outside of the door being part of the common elements. So I'm confused at what point does the HOA bear responsibility. I wish the Bylaws were more specific.

Would it be safe to say that if the door can be repaired, it is the responsibility of the owner, and if it has to be replaced, it is the responsibility of the HOA?

Thanks for your responses.

Steve
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Steve as others have said it should be in your documents and not in the by-laws but in the Covenants. I'm not an attorney but to me it all comes down to: "Who Owns the Door?" Is the garage deeded to the homeowner or is it HOA property that is a limited common element. If it is on the homeowners deed, I would think he was responsible, if it is a LCE, then it is probably the HOA's responsibility. We are fortunate, our CC&R's specifically state that the HOA will make garage repairs and special assess them to the garage owner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
StevenC3 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
In our Maintenance Responsibilities Schedule it states:

In Schedule 1, Page 1 - Item "Doors", section IV "Limited Common Elements Under Owner's Responsibility states:

Except for painting and routine maintenance of surfaces exposed to exterior, all, including all door hardware, locking mechanisms, weather stripping, and door sill, routine cleaning and replacement of glass, and replacement of doors, as needed, which shall be of the same color, grade, and style.

I believe that the repair and maintenance of the mechanical workings of the garage door are the responsibility of the owner. For example, if a spring breaks or a track or rollers are in need of repair, that would be the owners responsibility. I'm thinking that the door itself is a LCE and is thus the responsibility of the HOA. So, if failure to maintain and make repairs to the mechanical workings of the door are the owners, and that causes damage to the door (HOA), then it seems like it could go either way. I'm thinking that this may be a case where we make an offer to the owner to split the cost of repairs, unless the door has to be replaced, which may be the HOA's.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Steve

I think the question to be answered is did the internal damage (hinges, etc.) which is the owners responsibility, cause the external garage door damage?

Based on your description of damaged in several places, I doubt the internal components did such damage. I say, based on your description, the damage was done externally such as hitting the door. In either case, the owners responsibility.

I suggest the following course of action. The BOD and the owner agree to have the garage door company (the one that originally installed the door if possible) come out to evaluate the cause of the damage and the repair cost. A BOD rep and the owner be there at inspection time. Based on the decision of the garage door company:

1. The owner pay as the internal parts caused the external damage.
2. The owner pay as the external damage was caused by him.
3. The association pay as the external damage was caused by wear and tear/cheap doors.
4. The association and the owner agree to split the cost.

Hope this helps.

StevenC3 (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you all for your help. It's helpful for me to get some of this feedback. I am out of my element in addressing these issues. Your feedback has been timely and helpful.

Steve
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I live in a townhouse community and owners are responsible for the doors and windows - all of it.

As everyone else has said, read your documents - I would think in this instance, the door would be a limited common element at best, and that would make both the Association and the homeowner responsible.

I'd also wonder about that mid door hinge - how long was it broken and did the owner try to fix it or wait until the pane began having problems. If the owner didn't try to fix it or notify the Association so it could be looked at to see who was responsible, I'd make the owner responsible for the whole thing.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Steven, based on the citation you gave us, it seems very clear to me that the problem is the owner's responsibility. I may have missed something, but don't see an alternative interpretation.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/01/2013 6:47 AM
I live in a townhouse community and owners are responsible for the doors and windows - all of it.

As everyone else has said, read your documents - I would think in this instance, the door would be a limited common element at best, and that would make both the Association and the homeowner responsible.

I'd also wonder about that mid door hinge - how long was it broken and did the owner try to fix it or wait until the pane began having problems. If the owner didn't try to fix it or notify the Association so it could be looked at to see who was responsible, I'd make the owner responsible for the whole thing.

Shelia

As a point of interest. The last townhouse association I was an owner in (MA, 1995 to 2001), the Covenants clearly stated the HOA was responsible all building exterior maintenance.

The wooden cladding/exterior of the garage doors (10 years old) was peeling/rotting. The HOA was replacing all garage doors (one building at a time) over a 6 month period.

It all depends on what the Covenants do, or do not say.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Outside of who is responsible for what, isn't the person responsible for causing the damage, responsible for paying for it? This is how our garage door got busted, it was not all the way up and I backed out and into it, it bent the hinges busted the spring and dented the panel.

So shouldn't the question be, like it is for car accidents and baseballs through windows, the person that did it pays it? Maybe I missed something.

Unless it was an act of nature of course.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Old thread reactivated for the posting of spam
ChaazydT (Arizona)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesG on 06/30/2013 2:10 PM
You will need a careful reading of your documents to ascertain what is defined as the unit (owner responsibility) and the common elements (association responsibility). In our association the garage door inner workings (tracks, opener, etc.) are regarded as part of the unit. The door itself is a common element.

Limited common elements are still common elements, just with the fact that they are reserved for private use by the unit owner. These components must still be maintained by the association.

Jim

Some valid points you have mentioned here

Regards
ArizonaGarageDoors.com
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Steven : "If a section of the door or the entire door has to be replaced, is that the Condo Owners responsibility or the HOA's responsibility ? Where are the divisions of responsibility with regard to a garage door ? . . ."

Presuming your community is registered as a condominium under Texas condo law ( rather than a Building Scheme HOA held together by registered (CCR) promises ) you need to come up to speed asap with that over-riding law and the less authoritative site specific documents. ( The garage door may soon be the least of your worries.)

Your Declaration & description should - subject to that overriding law - describe the bounds of the unit including the structural garage door.

There may be

a Standard Unit (redefinition ) by-law that expands those/shrinks any corporation exposure to repair/replace a basic unit, along with

a (unit) repair/replace by-law that may/may not be legislated capable of altering how the Texas condo law assigns UNIT repair & replacement after non-insurable deterioration or breakdown.

Unit repairs/replacement after non-insurable loss within the general condo universe are widely loaded on the unit owner. Volunteers trying to understand them, is a next challenge. An only marginally related condo issue is ownership or jurisdiction over exterior SURFACE eg condo exterior doors. Some states allow Declarations which vary who repairs/replaces what, and a charge-back mechanism where a unit owner ignores unit repair obligations.

You need to quickly get up to speed with that over-riding Texas law and what the other commenters suggested about your site specific by-laws.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Old Thread reactivated for Spam
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I've clicked on a few threads today that seem to end "prematurely". Whoever is nipping the spam in the bud, thank you.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
That would be the moderators.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
send them a note by clicking on Help then Contact HOATalk Support

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