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NinaK1 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Greetings,

Firstly, your response and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

This is my first post on the forum, so please correct me if I am wrong.
I've done some reading on past discussions, but haven't found any solutions.

Here goes:

I recently moved from Canada to So Cal, and am a first time homeowner of a gated property.
About 2 months ago, I received a violation notice regarding a hot water heater vent I had installed on the exterior of my home. I had my first encounter when a board member walked by on his evening stroll and stated "You can't do that. That's real ugly." Of course, I had no idea this was going to cause such a hassle.

The HOA sent me a violation notice stating that I had broken the CC&R, devalue the community, and need to remove the vent ASAP.
Unfortunately, after consulting two licensed plumbers, they had deemed removal of the vent impossible. The original plan of the house was designed with a traditional hot water heater with vertical termination (the vent was built through the roof). I opted for a tankless water heater, which requires a horizontal termination, hence the new vent. I also consulted the opinions of my surrounding neighbors, all of whom reassured me the vent is barely visible.

Now, I had responded to the violation letter by stating the solutions available:
1. Reroute the tankless heater and existing pipes to other wall, punch new vent through other wall. Which will cost about $8000. Essentially, I am still making a modification to the exterior of my home.
2. Reroute the horizontal vent to the other wall, punch a new vent through the other wall. About $6000.
2. Throw away the $3500 I spent on the tankless heater and install another traditional water heater ($800), and go back to high gas bills which add up over time.
3. I offered to either paint the vent the body color of my home, or to plant a shrub in front of it.

I also stated in the letter that when I purchased the home, it was in run-down short sale condition, and through a thorough renovation, the property value has increased more than a single vent can ever offset. I find it unreasonable to require a homeowner to spend thousands of dollars to alter their home to fit the request of a few individuals.

Three days after I sent the letter, I received a final violation notice stating that I failed to respond to the violation notice, and had to appear before the board to explain myself. I then contacted the management company, and was ignored for another 3 days. Until today, they finally replied saying the letter was received after the HOA's morning meeting time, so it won't be accounted for. Also that the violation is not enforced by the board or the management company, but only by the association's rules. They will only respond to me at the meeting in 2 weeks.

What solutions do I have?

Obviously, I don't want to spend thousands on relocating a silly vent that looks similar in size and color of any of the gas meters attached to the homes. But the HOA's ignorance towards homeowners' opinions is infuriating.

I don't think I have enough to constitute a lawsuit. My fees are $250/month, with 1 playground and 1 park, no pool or clubhouse. There are about 100 homes in the community. The management keeps the turf at the park groomed. There has been recent mail theft and package theft, the gate is sometimes faulty. They spent $600k buying trees for the entrance last year. Is there anything I can use in my rebuttal?

Your help is greatly appreciated!
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
First, i have no idea what "not enforced by board or management company" means... if no one enforces, then... ???

second, the place to start is with a complete knowledge of the CC&R's. Look at your copy, and find the rule/reg you supposedly violated. Read carefully, and then check for definitions. Every word should be defined, either in the CC&R's, or you can use the standard dictionary definition, and make sure the rule applies in your case. If you don't know what rule you broke, then their letter was poor, and you can ask to see the specific rule, in writing, so you can study it.

after that, it's up to you. Your information about costs is good, and could be swaying, but it isn't enough by itself to prove that you didn't break the rule, it's only mitigating if it can be proven that you did.

another thing to do is check the other 99 homes, as you can, for similarities, and see of others have something that seems the same. Again, "he was speeding too" is not an excuse, but it can help sometimes (ie, I was simply maintaining a reasonable and prudent speed of the cars around me, so as to not be a singular hazard).

NinaK1 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you for your response, Brian B.

I checked my CC&R, the only item that could possibly stand is "modification of the exterior appearance of the property without prior approval from the architectural committee. "

Honestly, due to lack of HOA experience, I assumed that was directed towards say installing faux shutters/balconies, or painting the exterior wall an unconventional color.

According to a neighbor, the HOA has been more lenient the recent years, allowing decorative glass doors and paint colors not offered on the specific color deck from the HOA. Some homeowners have punched through the wall for range hood vents, but as the kitchen is located towards the rear, it is less visible. In your speeding theory, I guess I'd be the "Too bad, you were the one I caught."

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Nina

Bottom line is you screwed up. You either never read the association docs or you decided well they do not apply to me. I assume you never read them close.

You can fight them for whatever esoteric reasoning you think, or make nice and try to resolve it. Do no play outhouse lawyer. Plead Mea Culpa.

Yes Dear, you are correct. Yes Dear, I was wrong. Yes Dear, I am so sorry. Yes Dear, I will never do it again. Yes Dear, how can I make it up to you?

You might stand a chance on arguing (politely) that you wanted to "update" to a more modern/eco safe system/green, etc. (CA loves that type $hit) method of hot water heating and like solar panel installation (satellite dishes, outside clothes drying), it might require some association doc modifications.

Yes Dear, I understand.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Sorry, Nina, that your welcome to your HOA and to California is off to such a frustrating start. It does seem, though, that you violated your CC&Rs concerning needing Architectural Committee approval. Your HOA might have Architectural Guidelines that are spelled out, possibly in your CC&Rs.

So now you need to--at a hearing-- try to persuade the Board that you're really, really sorry--be very contrite. And then, basically, throw yourself at their mercy. You'll do this at a hearing where you also will show pictures of the vent, suggest ways to make it less visible, etc. You also might reiterate the expense involved in restoring that wall to its original condition. And it certainly is the board who will decide how to "discipline" you--or not.

Meantime, do read all of your governing documents including your bylaws (if you're incorporated) and Rules an Regulations. Somewhere you'll find how the Board disciplines Owners. And it certainly is the board who will decide how to "discipline you. It may a letter, a follow up letter and then an "invitation" to a hearing where you present your case. Even if your documents say otherwise, the Board must, by law, follow the procedures below in CA.

The website is a very good way to learn about HOAs. It's called davis-stirling.com and is named after legislation in CA about HOAs. It has a great Main Index! Good luck.

"NOTICE OF HEARING
Before a board can meet to consider imposing discipline upon a member, it must notify the member in writing, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting (unless the governing documents specify a longer notice period). (Civ. Code ยง1363(g).) The notice must contain the following:
The date, time, and place of the meeting,

The nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and

A statement that the member has a right to attend the hearing, view the evidence of violation, and present a defense, including his/her own witnesses and documentary evidence."

Read more: Notice of Hearing http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/NoticeofHearing/tabid/1738/Default.aspx#ixzz2XN0lKzyB
from Davis-Stirling.com by Adams Kessler PLC.
NinaK1 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
John, thank you for the straight forward advice. I'll be sure to make use of your suggestions and play the green card.

Carol, thank you as well for the informative website! I will construct a presentation for the board and like you said, beg for mercy. My frustration is mainly due to incongruency in expectation and reality, I chose a gated community for safety, and didn't expect to be pestered by a group that is supposedly elected by the residents to offer guidance and governance over the community's funds, but instead is in my opinion, over-policing and creating unnecessary hassle for both the board itself and the homeowners. I understand that in their perspective, they are maintaining uniformity within the community, but really, with the majority of homeowners being highly educated taxpayers, I think most of us are more than capable of critically understanding the HOA's actions and well, managing our own properties.

The next time I purchase a home, I'll probably look for a more civic neighborhood.

Thank you for all the advice, your voice is greatly appreciated!
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I didn't see John46's most recent post. Playing the green card is a good idea. But it's also true that a lot of people in Cali are opposed to "tree huggers," etc.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NinaK1 on 06/26/2013 7:20 PM
I understand that in their perspective, they are maintaining uniformity within the community, but really, with the majority of homeowners being highly educated taxpayers, I think most of us are more than capable of critically understanding the HOA's actions and well, managing our own properties.

Yet you as (I'm assuming) a highly educated taxpayer, failed to request ACC approval before you made the alteration to the building.

BTW did you pay for and get a building permit before you switched out the hot water heater? Something that is required in most incorporated areas.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
tankless may be vented through the roof with the manufacturers 'vertical kit'

see: http://www.plbg.com/forum/read.php?1,501923

you needed to do your homework
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Are there environmental laws in place for homeowners in HOAs in CA? For instance, here in FL there is a law protecting homeowners who use solar-capturing devices preventing covenants from restricting things like solar panels or clotheslines. Same for our Xeriscaping laws that protect homeowners who plant native vegetation.

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