Suing my HOA

Do your state laws say anything about the maximum amount (%) that HOA dues may be raised in a year without owners voting on the matter?

Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... A court can only make you whole. So unless you spent money or the HOA spent money, your not getting anything much out of this...

Is this joke? How could you possibly think that you can maintain your community based on what it cost to do so in the 30's???

To be honest, not too sure what you are asking about. What do the CCRs state about fees? Do they stipulate that they can only be raised by a certain percentage without the vote of the homeowners? What do the HOA's accounting statements look like? Are you accusing your HOA of collecting money and using it for something other than for what it is intended? At this point, if you do not have a case, are you at risk of having a judgment against you for the HOA's attorney fees?

OutC,

You elude to an issue of overcharging but you don't specify why you believe the Board is violating your CC&Rs.

What do the CC&Rs say regarding budgets and assessments?

As it appears that Missouri doesn't yet have any HOA laws (they do have COA laws), the language of the CC&Rs and any amendments to them will be important.

Stated my case as simply as I could because it's not complicated.

In 1939 land was outside City limits. The original responsibilities as dictated by the CC&R have now ALL been overtaken by City expansion, thus, taxation: street lights, fire and police protection, mail delivery, etc.
Document has a non-amendable cap on the ROA.
Document does provide for termination of the association.
No lawyer or court has the ability to change the doc. except 2/3 owners and they STILL cannot change the unamendable ROA.

This site seems heavily weighted to attorney-members. And no one responded to my question of the purpose of SCCt, i.e., "I understand Small Claims is about 3 things: Was/Is there a contract? Was there a breach? What will it take to make me "whole"? "

Oh I forgot, don't post on a pro HOA website and be surprised you get pro HOA responses. And for the record if we think the HOA is in the wrong, we say so. But as been posted elsewhere there are usually three sides to an argument, your side, their side and the truth.

The header at the top of this site's home page states:

"A positive place for association leaders to share ideas and learn"

Association leaders meaning HOA Board members.
"positive" meaning beneficial to the Board and the property

Not complicated at all.

OUT clearly is seeking support for his decision to sue his HOA. And reassurance that he has a good chance of being "made whole".

Going to court without a lawyer is a fool's charge. But when OUT can get himself to believe 3 simple steps leads him to a place where he cashes in well off we go.

Now what is OUT hoping to accomplish? Being pauid back for the dues he was charged without justification or authority to do so? And if OUT were to prevail how much is he looking to pocket to be whole again? Now if that occurs do we then conclude the rest of the owners would also need to be paid back? And if so WHERE would that money come from?? Anyone other than he owners???

So far OUT has filed his claim. He has a rpoblem with the HOA spending $5,000 of his money and that of his neighbors to defend this suit. So far OUT has cost his property at least $5,000. Other than the lawyer who has made out??

And OUT provides us with the news the city now provides police mail and fire services so therefore suggesting the HOA has little if any cost and no real need for funds of any kind. Is OUT familiar with the details of the preoperty's operating budget at all??? What's your guess?

And no this site is not weighted to attornies but rather to HOA Board members who have to deal with such lawsuits when the person bringing the suit has litle if any idea what is in fact legal, what is in fact permited to be done by HOA Boards, what cost their actions wilol have on the property, what damages a pending lawsuit might do to the property values and the difficulty a pending lawsuit might cause to anyone seeking financing through most banks.

So NO I don't really see much in the way of positive ideas here or anything I would like to learn. My guess OUT will learn a lesson when he appears in court suggesting to the judge about an existing contract, the contract in his view being breached, and what amount of money he now gets paid to make him whole at the expense of the rest of the property owners.

YES small claims court is simple. You show up and most days they cut you a check for whatever amount you decide. That's how it works.

Not complicated at all....................

I am confused by the 1939 date associated with this. It does not seem possible a HOA was formed in that time period. It sounds more like deed restrictions on the property that is the issue here. I don't know how the property is set up if it is condo's, townhouses, or separate homes sharing common property?

A HOA is ONLY funded by it's member for it's members. It is to be a non-profit typically. Which means it is to spend the amount of money it collects on it's expenses for operation. So I don't see how your out any money if you enjoyed the benefits of it. That being any amenities, shared property maintenance/costs, property insurance, or other expenses of your HOA incurs. Even if you never go to the pool or use the insurance, it is there for a purpose that has to be paid for. A pool attract buyers. Insurance protects the HOA. It costs money and that expense increases over the years.

No your not going to get reimbursed any spent money on dues. It's your responsibility to pay those or be forced out by foreclosure. The court isn't going to make you whole by even giving you back your lawyer/court fees. This is something you brought up. It's more likely they will make YOU pay for the HOA's legal costs. Considering they are the ones not being made whole by being forced into a lawsuit.

We are NOT lawyers here. We are very experienced and knowledgeable HOA members who have an understanding of how HOA's work. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. We will tell you why that is and what options you have to correct or live with. Suing for suing sake is a sign of not having a grasp on the HOA concept at all.

Doesn't matter. It's a non-amendable cap.

OutC,

For whatever reason - you choose not to post the words from your CC&Rs – so I continue reading hoping that you might post the the exact words, dealing with “dues assessments”, and in context.

You also wrote “It's a non-amendable cap”. Again it would be informative if you would post the exact words from your CC&Rs that state this.

Has it occurred to you that a Judge might rule that your CC&Rs, contain an obvious “typo”? And that what was “really meant” and/or that the “intent was”, and that it should have been written “……………”.

Out, federal, state laws can and do supersede HOA docs.

Tell that to the homeowners association that sues itself (by suing its homeowners) several times per year.

Is it not the members that can change and amend the rules/CC&R's themselves? It is NOT the board's responsibility to change/amend the rules. It takes a majority vote of the ENTIRE HOA to adapt/change. The HOA board simply approves to pay for those changes to be drafted and paid for by the lawyer to file/write.

You need to read your rules and see the power to change is in your hands. It's not in the boards. The board just represent you all as a whole. So if you want to change a rule then you may need a special meeting and up to 90% of the owners to approve that change.

It gets me everytime how people think they should go to a third party source like a lawyer/court when all the power they need is in their documents to change. A HOA is only managed by it's members for it's members. Which means besides obeying local, state, and federal laws can create whatever rules they want to live by.

By the way, our HOA the city owned the streets, street lighting, street signs, and we had city water. A lot of things that would be considered duplicate resources. However, we paid for things like HOA insurance, lawncare, clubhouse, pool care, and garbage dumpsters. The city has these options too, does it mean we should stop paying? No cause we had to take care of our own.

Thank you, SharonH9, for finally addressing my question. That is what I thought. I have tried in vain for the past 4 years to get anyone on the Board to listen to me. At first they denied the existence of the governing document. Then "maybe" we had one but it was too old ("dusty") to be of any value. Now that it can no longer be swept under the rug, their lawyer tells them that as long as 3/4 members are willing to keep paying what the Board was charging, they should just keep "working around the kitchen table." (wink, wink!) I figured the only way I could prove a case against them was to 1) pay what the CC&R said, 2) make them declare me delinquent, 3) pay the difference of what they demanded, and 4) claim that back in SCCt. That led to my thinking that I might as well go back to each year since I've lived here. I have no idea if the judge will agree, but if he rules that my CONTRACT (i.e., deed to my home which mentions the document on file in the county courthouse) is valid, there can be no dispute that it has been breached by Boards who have overcharged me. Not being a class-action suit, others will have to fend for themselves if they so choose, although I believe there is a good case to be made for this as a class-action suit.

You also hit the nail on the head that there are no longer any "common elements" to maintain. That is why I have mentioned dissolution, provisions allowed in the document. Although some on here prefer to "take care of their own" it is duplicitous when my taxes do the same jobs, and better. Sharon, if there is a way to contact me outside this forum, I would like to hear more of your case.

MelissaP, you make a valid point that the Association is comprised of the members, whose Boards serve at their pleasure. However, I know that many of those 3/4 I mention above, having gotten used to the fees, just write the check and put a stamp on it like little robots, others do it out of fear of a lien on their homes, and of the last 1/4 who are non-payers, the Board has never put a lien on and won't because they will have to "prove" their inflated fees and they know they can't. So we are at a stalemate, which I hope to break.

Although implied by some, I have never said I was not pro-HOA. What I am, however, is pro-document. I ran for office twice and got elected both times on the platform of "change/amend the documents if you don't like what they say, but don't keep making up rules by adding services, as you go." But I was a minority on a Board of recycled directors who had over 250 collective years of community residence and over 30 years Board service.

I know it seems a stretch to those who have disagreed with my lawsuit, to believe that there CAN be bad Boards who take advantage of their members when they follow only the rules that they want and flagrantly disregard the ones they don't like. I mentioned 3% who attend our 2 meetings per year as the ones who are making/allowing the decisions for all. I was one of the complacent "all" for years, but now I am going to claim my rights as a member in whatever manner it takes. To naysayers who say the judge may call a phrase a "typo" that's not going to fly. The developer who drew up our CC&Rs was a highly respected community member and businessman whose attorneys didn't make "typos".

The most insightful admonition was from TimB4 when he said "Please remember, what may be common knowledge to you is not common knowledge to us." That some things are not "common knowledge" to those of you drawing conclusions about how much my assessments have been or should be, how long I have lived in this HOA, or how much I am asking for damages, is really not germane to the question I have been waiting on to be answered. And I don't believe any of you really want to read through a Charter and a Bylaws, consisting of 8 single-spaced pages each so that you can know the "exact" language.

What you have all provided for me is opportunity to see the tactics the HOA attorney is likely to use, so that I can better prepare my case. And yes, very possibly represented by a fool. I may not know all the legal tomfoolery (technicalities) that he is likely to use, but at least I am confident that this fool knows more about my HOA than the attorney being paid to represent the HOA.

So then OUT seems you have it all figured out. Then what do you need from us? For us to agree with what you are doing and how you are going about it? Sorry I don't see it your way.

I find it amazing you see support from Sharon. Sharon who details some cases going from SCC to Superior Court and then onto Iowa Supreme court.
Do you have any idea of the timeframe involved with such a case? Do you have any idea the COST of following up that case? And here you sit without a lawyer. Like going into a knife fight without a knife.

And YES some of the questions asked of you are in fact germane but you would rather not provide that information for some reason. I get funny feelings when people like to give THEIR information and decide what parts should be told and what parts should be left out. How long you have lived there, how much you have paid and how much you feel robbed of is part of the story. Just how long did you sit back and see, hear, speak nothing? Oh that's right no one needs to know that.

And finally OUT confidence is a wonderful thing but you don't win cases in court be showing just how much you know about your HOA. That is not what is in question who knows more. It's about the law. What the law says, what the law allows, and whether you or the HOA is standing on solid legal grounds or not.

None of us here are lawyers so for you to think we now show you how a lawyer might approach this matter is flawed self serving thinking. Better to consider worst case senario rather than "I can't lose".

Sharon:

As you suggested the terms of settlement in the suit your HOA brought agains you and your husband were not deemed confidential I was curious if you cared to share on what grounds your HOA sued you?

In what court was your case heard?
How long did it take to settle?
Was there a court decision or settlement?
If so what decisiuon was rendered and in favor of who?
YOUR legal costs in the end?
The HOA's legal costs in total?
Did your case involve a breach of contract?

In the end what was accomplished by either side?

And as you now seem willing to suggest that in YOUR opinion dissolving this HOA is a viable option I was wondering just what you base that opinion on as you are not a lawyer. Have you ever been involved in dissolving an HOA? Have you yourself ever served on a property's HOA Board? Do you have any first hand knowledge of that taking place? Have you read OUT's property's documents? Other than OUT do you have any knowledge of what the other property owners think?

So from one non-Board member who was sued by their HOA to another non-Board member property owner who is suing their HOA you feel in your non-lawyer opinion dissolving this HOA is a viable option???

Sharon:

I appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions. And of course I understand you not wishing to disclose your location. But IMO why you were sued which you chose to not answer would be important. Tough for me to understand why an HOA would get to the point they might bring legal action unless they had no other option. And you also answer as to the outcome that "it did not go to court". Again, to vague to judge in any way what took place. Did both parties agree to drop the matter? If so sounds like a lose-lose for both sides.

You see I have served on our Board for 26 years. During those years we have been sued 4 times. Not once has the party that brought the action against us won. BUT, as in your case the property paid a price. That makes little sense to me. I have yet to hear or read about a case where a suit was successful in regards to breach of contract reagrding an HOA and IF there are any there are not a large amount.

In fact one former visitor here had it all figured out. With a $250 online legal degree he filed sui against his property for "breach of contract" the court ruled against him. But he has since appealed. Just like OUT it was cut and dry until his matter got to court and then reality set in. And this man also decided he too was capable of handling his own legal representation. Sound familiar????

So from the answers you provided and from that which you left out impossible for me to have an opinion as to why he HOA sued you, was it necessary, what outcome was reached, for what reasons, and whether or not it served any useful purpose.

Now on to your suggestion OUT had a viable option in dissolving his HOA.
My question to you was just what did you base that claim on?

From your response it would appear not much. No I have never handled or particiapted in the dissolving of an HOA. Nor have I heard about any actually being done. Nor have I read about this as a frequent occurence.
So is it POSSIBLE??? Probably YES. Is it viable? Considering the hurdles and requirements in all cases including OUT's my opinion not even close.

But then again I was not the person who suggested it was in fact an option. That was you.

So no Sharon I don't live my life with the need to agree with you or anyone else. We can disagree and both of our lives go on. However, when you make a statement such as in this case that YOUR opinion is dissolving this particular HOA is in fact an option and a "viable option" I just have to wonder if you have ANY logical or factual basis for that opinion. Since you have never sat on a Board, never presided over the dissolving of an HOA, never actually been involved in such an action, have no first hand knowledge of this property, have no details as to the particulars of this property, have no legal expertise, I would find it difficult myself to conclude whether or not something was in fact "viable". But that's just me....

OUT seems to suggest he holds a belief that the judge in SCC can and will dissolve his HOA, can and will force the HOA to revert back to the 1939 budget, can or will order OUT be repaid any overcharges OUT now claims. My guess not going to happen. And if it does the community, including OUT's own residence will suffer. Now that IMO is NOT positive.
Another lose-lose.

And finally the sole purpose of an HOA is not simply to maintain common property. And then following your logic without common property there is no need for the HOA. That suggestion on your part suggests a lack of understanding by you as to what is involved in the management and operations of an HOA. It is simply not that cut and dry.

Just one point. What do you suppose might happen to your property values when you listed your home for sale as a "one time HOA that has now been dissolved, the owners bought into a contract for the purchase of an HOA but that property no longer exists, and those owners who were looking for services and HOA provided amenities are now on their own, the property has no regulations, guidelines, ability to collect dues or fees, cannot fund any services or amenities, and if your neighbor acts in a manner that offends you or damages your abiliy to live in your home peacefully hire a lawyer and take them to court for 3 years, foot the bill and see how that works out for you. How many current residents would wish to now stay???

Just myself I would not wish to live on our property without an HOA being in place. I know after 26 years what would occur if everyine were left up to their own devices... Not pretty.

So thanks for the response. I will then offer my opinion "dissolving this or any HOA is in most cases NOT a viable or positive option".

Just an answer to a percieved problem where the party involved hasn't bothered to think through the entire process and consider the negative consequences... But that's only MY opinion.

Out one other thing you need to take into consideration because the courts do. What was the INTENT of the document when it was enacted, you say the assessment was capped at X and is nonamendable. I'll take your word for it since you don't want to share but if the yearly assessment was capped at say $25.00 in 1939 then factoring in inflation and devaluing of the dollar in 2013 that would equal $410. (One 1939 dollar = $16.40 2013 dollars.) That would be the argument I would use if I were defending against your lawsuit.

Okay Jon, you have educated me that HOA's have another purpose besides maintaining common elements and that is maintaining property values. That is the reason I enjoy this site (most of the time) to become educated in the ins and outs of HOA's so that if I ever do get on the Board of Directors I have some knowledge to bring to the table. And yes, people can gain knowledge from reading and applying as well as hands on experience.

My question is this then, if there are no common elements to maintain but you want to maintain property values what is the purpose of collecting dues and assessments? What do these HOA's do with the money that is collected? Please educate me more. I appreciate the knowledge I gain from you and others on this site.

I made the statement that dissolution is a valid option because others on this site have said the purpose of an HOA is to maintain the common elements and others have said that the BOD does not have the responsibility to enforce the covenants. They can but it can also be up to the homeowner to sue their fellow neighbors who have violated those covenants. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted that and then I will send my apologies to Out for making that suggestion.

I can only speak from my own knowledge (or perceived knowledge)and personal experience. In my association the property values will not be greatly affected by having an HOA whose main purpose is to protect my property values. I live in the Midwest, in a development of single family homes in rural Iowa. I have never lived in an urban area or condo or in any town larger than 23,000 people. Swimming pools, tennis courts, club houses, golf courses, amenities like that are not the norm where I live or have ever lived.

Your experience with an HOA is different than mine. There are many variables. The people that come to this site can provide information based on what is applicable to them depending on where they live and what the purpose of their HOA is.

I am eager to gain some more information from you all. Thanks.

Well Sharon to answer all your questions due to my limited typing skills more than likely my fingers would be worn down to the knuckles before I got out all I would wish to say.

But lets take a swing at this. MY general rule in serving our property when faced with a decision or choice is simply "What is best for the property?" Simple, short and easy to answer. Under those guidelines I can see Out's actions as negative or selfserving. Hence my opinions as to why I would oppose HIS course of action. And to seek, force, or support any effort to dissolve this particular HOA would in my opinion be a serious error. In Out's mind perhaps a simple remedy just not one they may ever occur. And IF it does the entire property would suffer.

Now as to HOAs. HOAs are simply a form of property ownership. HOAs, Condos, Co-Ops offer in some cases benefits to owners or members they they may not have had with private ownership of property. I nsome cases it might limit costs, and expenses. Some people prefer private ownership others might have reasons to buy into an HOA. Some, not all offer amenities, services, maintenance, water/sewer, landscaping, snow removal, or as you listed golf courses and waterparks.
Have you reviewed the budget of YOUR property? Is there an MC? Does the property carry insurance? Is there any common property? Lawns, lakes, ponds, recreation facilities at all? My suggestion get a hold of you P&L or audit and go over the property's finances. Where does the money come in from and what is is going towards? Do you have private roads? Does the city, county or state maintain your roads within the community?
Most HOAs operate under a budget to cover the costs of operations. Those costs are split equally among the owners to cover them. As many people forget the HOA Board is made up of OWNERS just like them not some evil visitors from another planet far far away. The HOA Board also pays these same costs. Why would they act in a way to do harm to themselves?

That is why before I would suggest dissolving Out's HOA I would need to know the details of what is in fact included in those operations. Out claims the police, fire and mail services are now all covered by others, my guess the US mail has been around even longer than Out's property so I would doubt the mail service was ever covered by the HOA. Hence I have to conclude Out knows little about his own property's operations. Better to educate yourself and speak from facts rather than making no sesne at all.

As a general life rule Sharon I do not take what others say as Gospel. I prefer to find out for myself and in the situations where in fact I don't begin to know I sit back listen and let someone who has a clue talk. Many folks who hold the belief HOAs only maintain common property have never sat on an HOA Board. Don't attend meetings, and bought into a property which they have no understanding of. But rather than educating themselves they attempt to simplify the role HOAs have in the operations of their own communities and then suggest they play no useful role. Then waht was the reson you bought into one?

I am past the 1/2 point of my lifecycle. I understand by now knowledge is something you acquire not something you are born with. But I do not allow myself to take the shortcut of assuming someone else's opinion as my own without first understanding why what they think makes sense or in some cases makes no sense at all. HOAs are a complicated, individual entities. My guess no two are alike. My serving on our Board for the past 26 years has proven to be quite an education. Finances, maintenance issues, legal issues, law, taxes, accounting, bookeeping, newsletters, pool services, snow removal, landscaping, water and sewer service, cable services, insurance, critter control, fires, floods, gas leaks and all the rest. If you actaully do the job there is a lot to learn. Before you reach the opinion your HOA really serves no useful purpose. There are folks her who have no clue what in fac is done on a day to day basis and my guess some would hold the opinion the Board here serves no purpose.

I would wonder Sharon why you and your husband bought into an HOA? Was there a pricing advantage for you? Are there not free standing private owned homes in your area? What attracted you o this particular property?

Many years ago..... I can barely remember..... I attended my first year of college in Peoria IL. Bradley University. At the same time my older brother was attending Drake University in Des Moines. Over that time I visited your state on several occasions. And yes you are correct when you stated there is a differecne as to what we have both known in our lives in regards to "normal". In those days there were a lot of corn fields in Iowa I thought we would NEVER drive out of them! Hadn't seen many of them in mid-town growing up.

So Sharon I have begun to bleed on my fingertips. Time to wrap this up. Are HOAs always a good thing? Hardly. Do all HOAs operate in a positive manner? Only a fool would claim that. Each has its good, bad, and ugly. Each has its challenges. As an owner you have two choices involve yourself or allow others to run the place for you. My choice years ago to be honest would not be my choice today. As you stated I beleive in another post "life is to short". There is a price you pay when you choose to serve as a Board member. While the majority of the community does nothing close to THEIR fair share. But if you decide to serve gather the FACTS and form your own opinions. Don't gather opinions of others and let them form you.

Serving in the end is not all it is cracked up to be. Contrary to what some (who never have served) suggest it does not feed ones ego, or satisfies some need for power in my case my motivation was to maintain and improve MY home. And protect it from harm or damage. I myself am not the type of person who can sit back and watch people run my home and property into the ground and turn a blind eye or muster up only a whine or a whimper. So people do that very well....

So Sharon before I require a blood transfusion I have to go. Best Wishes to you, your husband, family? and community. Do they still grow a lot of corn out there or have they switched to some other crop???? Long, long time ago.....driving on the roads of Iowa.

Here is the basics of why my association sued me. Sorry for the length but it was a complicated issue.

1. The only common elements in my development are the sanitary sewer and 2 ponds. The roads are county, the water is a regional company, and the electric is a co-op.
2. When we bought our property we were attracted to the location in rural Iowa. My husband is a big fan of the great outdoors. He loves to fish and birdwatch. We chose the property because there is a big lake right down the road and a wildlife refuge practically in our backyard.
3. We bought the property through a local real estate agent. He gave us a copy of the deed restrictions for the area. All that the document included were architectural detail restrictions such as size of house, no mobile homes, siding requirements, that lots must be mowed, etc. Our agent verbally stated that the development has a common sanitary sewer so we would not have to go to the expense of installing a septic tank.
4. If you could see our development its very obvious that the deed restrictions are not enforced. Some of the homes are very attractive, have attractive lawns, and keep their properties well maintained. Others have mismatched siding, homes that look like used car lots, dogs are running loose, unimproved lots haven't been mowed in years. We chose a lot that sits off by itself. There are no other homes very close to ours and our section of the neighborhood is kept pretty attractive. Our conclusion was that the deed restrictions were not enforced but like I said we didn't really care because our property is kind of off by itself.
5. The day of closing on our lot we drove to the development to let someone know that we would be building a house sometime in the near future. At that time, we had a house to sell in a different state so we did not know when we would begin to build. We knocked on some doors and were given the name of a board member and where he lived. We went to his house but he was not home so we phoned him from our hotel. He told us what the annual dues were and said that we could send the dues to him, then he would pass them on to the secretary. In the meantime we sold our house and proceeded with our plans to build the new house. A few months after speaking to the board member, we sent him the dues along with a letter stating that construction of our house would begin soon and our contractor would be contacting him to get the details of the sewer hook-up. We then received a receipt from the secretary. The receipt also stated that annual sewer users fees were $200. She didn't send us any bylaws or rules and regulations. We didn't know they even existed. Our contractor spoke to the board member and he didn't answer any of our contractors questions. He deferred everything back to the County. So construction on our house continued and on the day of the sanitary sewer hook-up, our contractor's son located the association president to ask him about the sewer hook-up. He told him a few details about the type of pipe they had to use, that they would have to dig under the road to hook on to an existing sewer line, and that the connection would need to be inspected before covering it up. The hook-up was completed, inspected, and covered up. The house was then finished and we moved in. Nine months later the association president called us up and stated that we owed the association a $5,000 hook-up fee. And the rest is history. Keep in mind no one else in the development paid this fee. It had just recently been implemented by the BOD. The rules state that there is a $5,000 hook up fee for members and $15,000 for nonmembers so of course they claimed we were nonmembers. Then there are the litigation details but I won't bore you with all that.

To everyone who has given me advice on how and why to not sue my Homes Association, let me just reiterate that I asked a question on only one topic: contract law. Having been informed that I “do not seem” to present all facts or answer questions, or of “trying to slant info to make it easy for all to agree with me”, have I asked anyone to agree with me? I was looking for an answer to my “contract” question, and so far, only Sharon has responded in kind. (Thank you to Sharon for your explanation which I hope placates the Curious.) My gut reaction, however, is that many who have weighed in on my issue may be in condo or shared communities, rather than individual, single-resident HOAs.

JonD1 has put much effort into his (and others) questioning at the expense of his abused fingertips, so I feel he is owed a response, if only in exchange for the pain. If you are not an atty, why would your (or anyone's here) confessed non-professional review of my documents matter to me; documents that you continue to insist I should provide for clarity. If I misrepresent the truth, then that is on me, but surely at least some of the “PRO-HOA-ers” out there could take what I state at face value and render a “pro-HOA” comment when I say that our CC&Rs are not being followed...especially since I clearly understand this forum to NOT be legal advice. And even more clearly, I understand my own documents which I have been told “cannot be”. You must have missed that I was voted to my Board—-twice, in fact, during which tenure I never heard any discussions or specifics of our CC&Rs, nor did even once, any director counsel to “look it up.” So you will not disparage my intelligence or intent regarding what MY documents say. I ran for the office the first time, fully prepared and knowledgeable of the CC&Rs, which, sadly, could not be said for all. I can honestly and modestly say this was the first time I have ever been part of a small group where I had educated myself to the point where I knew more than the other members. And of course, most Board meetings were chaos because no one knew or was willing to try and follow Robert's Rules of Order. Back to the issue...

Posing an excellent question of logic it was asked, “why [would] an HOA would get to the point they might bring legal action unless they had no other option.” Logic is not logical if it doesn’t work both coming and going. So, please also ruminate “why would a member get to the point of bringing legal action unless they had no other option.” Four years after my discovery—-and make no mistake, I DID have to discover it on my own, no “long-timers” stepping forth to explain what or where it could be found—-this Board, with 4 “lifers” (nearly 40 years collective experience over the past 4 decades) is no closer to agreeing the CC&R should be either followed, amended, or terminated. (Feel free to question, as I have done repeatedly, why it would not be common knowledge to all members.) Pretty clearly, that leaves me with “no other option.”

We are universes apart when you (Jon) state:
“MY [your emphasis] general rule in serving our property when faced with a decision or choice is simply, "What is best for the property?"
“But if you decide to serve, gather the FACTS and form your own opinions.”
“my motivation was to maintain and improve MY [again, your emphasis] home.

I’m sorry, but those are really crappy reasons upon which to base your decisions as a 26-yr veteran in the trenches. To your statement of it being “not that cut and dry”, you will please tell me, when DO you go to your documents to find the answer in order to make INFORMED and FACTUAL decisions rather than the subjective decision-making to which you apparently resort? Would not 5 directors have 5 opinions of "what is best"? My CC&Rs are not ambiguous, leaving no room for me to form my own opinion. If not a lose-lose what do you, as a “lifer” call it when Boards knowingly and continually violate their CC&Rs?

If you have served on your Board for 26 years, that means you have cost your association quite a few thousand dollars yourself. Dollars that you have not had to pay by reason of your special position. Are there others who have been so “dedicated” for as many years also getting (while giving)? My apologies if your Board is not exempted from paying dues as mine is, nevertheless, have you considered stepping down and letting in some new blood rather than "re-upping" merely because members continue voting for you? What percentage of community votes reelect you? Are there no term limits, or do you cycle in and out so that you disrupt the continuity, thus allowing you to return in the same/some capacity? I have found that our residents are intimidated by our long-standing and/or returning directors. Also, by not passing the torch, it creates a sense of apathy. Yet our directors cry in amazement, “Why doesn’t anyone want to be on the Board?”

I never said the judge either can, will, or should, dissolve the HOA. Merely that those were his [legal] options and responsibility, given the language of “my contract”. If a legal requirement is taken as my having said it “should” be dissolved, then so be it. However, since you state not having been involved in a dissolution in your 26 years Board experience, you will not be offended that I reject your opinion on that issue. For the record, you may go to the Missouri Secretary of State website and search “RSMo chapter 355” where, about 3/4 through the document you will find the reasons a court may apply judicial dissolution. Our HOA meets every single one! Not saying it will be done. But with continued Board resistance to following the CC&R and/or working for more Community interest, perhaps dissolution should be a strong consideration instead of continuing to bleed this community into paying for dual services simply for a few to hold onto their Power Position.

You ended stating that HOAs preserve property values. There is not one thing—not ONE—that my HOA has done to preserve my property values per our Declaration of Restrictions (another apparently unknown document). In the last 4 years, however, my city has been called in to clean up vacant (and one especially run-down) properties, plowed snow from our streets without knocking holes in our curbs or obstructing our intersections with snow unlike the private snow plow guy we hire. The city has cut down dead trees (now on their property since we no longer own or are required to maintain formerly common grounds) yet we do pay to have them mowed and insured (why? can anyone say "fiduciary duty"?), and the local police presence can respond to 9-1-1 calls faster than our sham “security” company.

I know of no one, either here or in former neighborhoods, who either bought, or rejected, a house because it did or didn’t sit in an HOA. My bets are on the buyer who fell in love with the house and because it was in the right school district. Period. My reading has shown that many homeowners who, having had negative HOA experiences with recalcitrant Board members, instruct a realtor to show them homes only if they are NOT in an HOA.

Did you start a thread about this? I'm really curious to learn more about the "selective enforcement" as I feel our board is guilty of the same thing.

Perfect. Just perfect. Ask me questions on pending litigation, which specifics I have please asked for privacy, but let me ask a few questions regarding one's term limits, recurring directorship, or when/how those (HOA/non-HOA/conda/other) documents are followed and I can't be given another precious minute, (excuse me, half-hour), of this person's time. If it didn't sound so much like where I already live I would ask you all to please tell me where your wonderful HOAs are so I could see first-hand what a perfect-functioning association and Board looks like. Perhaps I’d even pick one in which to live out my remaining days.

But in response to Melissa, please do not taint my facts with your assumptions. What may appear as “bits of reality” were not essential to my original question. Most seem to have taken this in a whole different direction, including thinking the Association should be continuing services that are no longer reasonable since taxes now cover those services. You may get free oil changes for the first 100,000 miles with purchase of a new vehicle. Would it not then, seem “redundant” to take it to the corner Quicky-Lube where the same service would need to be paid out of your pocket? Consider those Home Owner Warranty policies. Free replacement and labor for a year. But some here seem inclined to pay for a plumber/electrician/builder out of their own pocket. Redumb-dant, to be sure.

Perhaps she fell asleep between my first post and her most recent. You will all be pleased to hear me say for the hundredth time (try getting those minutes back), that I have herein addressed the whole “courthouse” issue and (yes) “hidden,” “bastard” documents (because no Board member wants to claim them!). I have done my research 100% alone, and yes, I feel like the little red hen who did not share her bread because no one helped carry, plant, water, or thresh the wheat, or bake the bread. I will be happy to report back on how the bread tastes.

Sorry, I REALLY thought this was a pro-(for)-HOA site. From the responses I have gotten, it seems to be made up of PRO-(professional)-HOA document-evaders.