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GeorgiaS (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I live is a 20 year old community that has a large pond (5 acres) located in our common area. There are beavers that are attracted to the pond and then go onto the adjacent homeowner’s property and significantly damage their trees (not in common areas). I’m not sure, but I believe they actually have their ‘lodges’ located on one of the homeowner’s lots.. not in the common areas. (Not sure if that even makes a difference.)

For the last few years, our HOA Board has arranged for and paid $2,000+ a year for the removal of the beavers. New beavers come to lake each year and cause us to have to repeat the process and expense.

I have two concerns:

CONCERN # ONE> Only a small percentage of the homes are actually on the pond, however the whole community continues to foot the bill. Since it is not damaging the 'common areas' I don't think everyone should have to pay these costs. How is it different from other pests that come onto my personal property like squirrels in my attic, gophers in my yard or even termites?

CONCERN # TWO> I am a little concerned about opening ourselves up to increased liability for ‘owning’ this issue. If the HOA continues to work on the beaver issue because it damages the property of homeowners (not the common areas), are we at risk of turning this into a liability issue for the whole subdivision if the effort fails? Examples: Costs to restore someone’s landscaping or what if a tree (damaged by a beaver) lands on someone's house or hurts a child?

Any advice on whether or not we (as an HOA community) should continue to cover this expense for the few homeowners that live next to the pond?

Thank you for your help!
Georgia Subdivision

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The issue here is that people are doing this out of perception of avoiding a possible lawsuit. It smells it all over it when I see a HOA spend money on these type things. Someone usually the home effected with say something about "Lawsuit if tree falls on my house etc...". Typical knee jerk reaction to just decide to use the HOA money to avoid that threat.

The reality is that if a beaver ate a tree and fell on the house, the homeowner's insurance would pay for it. If not, the HOA insurance may have to ante up something for clean up. The pond still sounds like common property so don't know your definitions for that.

I would instead do a bit of research and find out what liabilities the members face with having the beavers. Remember suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So if these owners want to threaten some kind of lawsuit let them if you find not liable. It's better to counter sue and it's a waste of money if they try. Stand on firm ground and get opinions from insurance, animal control, and not a lawyer in real estate.

Former HOA President
GeorgiaS (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for the response. No one has yet mentioned lawsuits (Other than me in my original post). I believe the decision to pay the costs to continually remove the beavers was because at the time, there were board members who lived on the lake. So they simply voted to use HOA money versus their personal money. Since no damage is occuring within the 'common areas'owned by the HOA, I am inclined to ask the board that we stop paying $2,000+ each year.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Georgia

You are assuming the lake is not common property. I believe it might well be common property. In our HOA about 10% of us live around a pond (not a lake) but it is common property for all 113 owners including those that cannot even see it.

GeorgiaS (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks JohnC46 for your reply.

The water (pond) is for sure common property owned by the HOA, but no damage is actually happening in the water. All the damage is occurring with the trees that are on the land. The land is owned by the individual homeowners. There is some common areas of land on the pond but no trees on that portion.

My thinking is that where the water line stops, is where the HOA’s responsibility also stops. No different than if squirrels that live in my neighbor’s trees have babies that then move into my attic. My neighbor would not be obligated to pay to have the squirrels removed from my attic.

This is my first lake/pond community. Being on a pond yourself, have you ever had pests that damaged your property that you own directly (not common property) that your HOA was obligated to pay to remove/repair?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think you hit the nail on the head... Are they obligated to? The truth is that it is up to the HOA to decide if they want to use their funds for this or not. It's not an obligation than an agreement to use ALL their funds to pay for this item.

You have every right to mention this at the meeting that you feel the needs of a few does not justify the needs of the whole. That maybe the HOA should stop providing this service at their cost. Explain the money being used is ALL your money and not just a few. Yours and your neighbors dues are a pooled amount of money done so to keep up with the costs of the HOA. Is this beaver removal such a cost and should it be? It can if you all vote it is.

Former HOA President
SharonH9 (Virginia)
Posts: 216
Posted:
If it were not for the lake the beavers would not be on your neighbor's property. Beavers are not like squirrels. My Daniel Boone husband said that beavers only lodge in the water and do not stray far from their lodge. Which means homes located by the lake are at risk for damage caused by the beavers.

IMO since the lake is a common area, I believe the HOA is responsible to continue to remove the beavers. Have you consulted with the Department of Natural Resources to see if there is something that can be done to keep the beavers from lodging there? Just a thought.

Sharon
GeorgiaS (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks SharonH9, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. But I’m not convinced yet. :-)

Does that mean the HOA is also responsible for removing other pests that are drawn to the area by the water? Like snakes and frogs, increased mosquitoes population, or removing the bird droppings from their decks and patios as we have geese that live on the pond also?

Remember too that the pond was there before any of the homeowners bought the properties, so any water-born pests should be expected in my opinion.

Forgive me, I don't mean to sound too argumentative in this format.. I’m just preparing my comments for my HOA :-)

Thank you!
SharonH9 (Virginia)
Posts: 216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgiaS on 06/11/2013 6:35 PM
Thanks SharonH9, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. But I’m not convinced yet. :-)

Does that mean the HOA is also responsible for removing other pests that are drawn to the area by the water? Like snakes and frogs, increased mosquitoes population, or removing the bird droppings from their decks and patios as we have geese that live on the pond also?

Remember too that the pond was there before any of the homeowners bought the properties, so any water-born pests should be expected in my opinion.

Forgive me, I don't mean to sound too argumentative in this format.. I’m just preparing my comments for my HOA :-)

Thank you!

All good points. I still think that there must be something that can be done to deter the beavers from building there which would solve that problem. Daniel Boone didn't have an answer for that. LOL!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Georgia,

Here is a link that may prove helpful.

Beaver Management And Control In Georgia booklet by Georgia Department of Natural Resources.

Perhaps you can contact that department and ask who pays for property damage caused by the beavers.
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
Georgia,

I read through the booklet that Tim linked to. Interesting reading. While I do not recall it saying so explicitly, it sounds like removing beavers from an attractive habitat is a never-end job because once the area is rid of one group of beavers another will move in to take their place. This sounds like the hazards of building your home in their environment.

Since the beavers are attacking trees on individual lots those owners should be taking steps to protect their trees. The booklet suggested wrapping the trees with rigid wire mesh fencing up to about 3 feet above ground. That sounds more effective than continuing a half-baked beaver removal project. One definition of mental illness is to keep doing the same old thing but expect a different result.

Your HOA should get out of the beaver removal business and assist owners with protecting against the beavers to the extent that no one gets cited for fencing his trees from the beavers.

I see no more liability for your association if a tree falls due to a beaver eating it than if the wind blew it down. The property owner is responsible for maintaining his trees in sound condition.

As I said above, you built homes in a beaver habitat. Therefore, you should not be surprised that they are there munching away on their favorite food: trees!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Georgia

Our individual property lines stop short (about 20-30ft) of the pond thus around the edge of our pond is common property and maintained by the association.

Would not property lines ending at the edge of the lake mean that portion of the lake edge is private property? In some locales this is not allowed. A portion of the shore has to be open to the public thus cannot be privately owned. There have been many court cases on this issue concerning sea shores but not sure on other bodies of water.

If one can own land to the waters edge then I would say any damage on that property would be at the property owners expense.

Hope this helps

SharonH9 (Virginia)
Posts: 216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MatthewW4 on 06/12/2013 1:33 AM
Georgia,

I read through the booklet that Tim linked to. Interesting reading. While I do not recall it saying so explicitly, it sounds like removing beavers from an attractive habitat is a never-end job because once the area is rid of one group of beavers another will move in to take their place. This sounds like the hazards of building your home in their environment.

Since the beavers are attacking trees on individual lots those owners should be taking steps to protect their trees. The booklet suggested wrapping the trees with rigid wire mesh fencing up to about 3 feet above ground. That sounds more effective than continuing a half-baked beaver removal project. One definition of mental illness is to keep doing the same old thing but expect a different result.


I see this as a win, win, win situation for all. The beavers get to keep their habitat, the association doesn't have to spend money removing them, the homeowner protects their trees. Great solution guys!!!
MatthewW4 (Arizona)
Posts: 500
Posted:
I'm not sure how well this would work, but since the beavers are chewing at the trees to eat the wood why not distract them with a pile of freshly cut saplings? They may munch away on the small stuff and leave the big trees alone.

This problem with the beavers is much like the problem some people have with feral cats. The only program that really seems to work with feral cats is to trap them, neuter them to prevent reproduction, and return them to the same area. Trapping feral cats and disposing of them never works because there are always more feral cats ready to move in. The beavers may be the same if repeated removal has not worked.
SusanC7 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We have the same problem in our HOA in Longs, SC. We tell homeowners to place chicken wire around the base of their trees (the 3 ft. high wire). Problem solved. If they do not wish to protect their own property, it is not up to the HOA to do so.
AnnH4 (Florida)
Posts: 53
Posted:
I would think that the HOA is obligated to maintain the pond if it is common area. However, pest control for a homeowner's adjacent property is another issue. I wonder if maybe you should get the opinion of your association's attorney. They can review your declarations and determine if it is indeed the responsibility of the association to remove native wildlife that is a nuisance for those homeowners who live by the pond. I also wonder if your state wildlife commission would be able to assist with this problem.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
'POND', my rear end

'Mandated ENGINEERED STORM WATER RETENTION AND DISCHARGE FACILITY' would be accurate

don't matter WHAT the developer called it, charged lot premiums to build next to it, that is what it actually is

the beavers MAY or MAY NOT be interfering with the engineered design and operation of the retention pond

if they ARE interfering (which is common), the HOA must eliminate the problem and restore the retention pond to original design

should the HOA not take action (assuming the beavers ARE an operational issue) a case for malfeasance could be made with the directors becoming PERSONALLY responsible for any subsequent damages

ergo; perhaps association are REQUIRED to be spent on the beaver issue

perhaps not

? what did the engineer you consulted say ?

either way, the HOA is no more responsible for any beaver damage to individual property than they are for an alligator or squirrel or Eagle
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
'POND', my rear end

'Mandated ENGINEERED STORM WATER RETENTION AND DISCHARGE FACILITY' would be accurate


Interesting and so true. In our case the pond (spring and natural water run off fed) did exist on the property before homes were built but it was turned into a storm water retention and discharge (drain off) as part of the building permit process. It is clear that it is such and it is the responsibility of the HOA to maintain it in working order. No arguments there.

Our developer did not charge extra for a "pond" lot. The developer did install a fountain and will be installing a dock/pier/deck on one side. Only 30 of 113 homes are on or can see the pond but I do foresee future issue. The pond people are presently requesting that the developer "fancy" up the pond.

We are working on transition of the developer to the owners and I have said to those that want it "fancied" up that they better get the developer to do it. I doubt when under owner control the owners will vote for such an "optional" expenditure.

I live on the pond and fish there all the time, but I am not of the "fancy" it up faction.

AnnH4 (Florida)
Posts: 53
Posted:
Very true about the "pond" concept lol! We are in the same boat with drainage areas. However, our state conservation management mandates that we "maintain" these bodies and make repairs to the banks as necessary. Our declarations are also very specific about the responsibilities of the Association for pond and lake management and easements with the state conservation management. In some instances it has been a headache. We had one homeowner demand repairs to a pond bank and we had to do it, but the person who assessed our problem suspected the homeowner was backwashing his pool filter into the pond.
GeorgiaS (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks to everyone for all the great replies. It's given me lots to think about and a few solutions to try. Thank you!

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